DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #20

[rkf]

Question for the group?
Does anyone remember who or at what point in the PH- that Bach states she "does not want him to have to have to testify and she expressed concern that he was going to have to." I'm sitting here trying to recall.


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You mean when Bach didn't want Owens to talk about the pending SWs?
p.94 #16

MS. BACH: And I'm afraid that he's going to end up -- I don't want him to be in a position where he has to testify -- I'm worried that he's going to have to -- he's going to not be able to testify without revealing that search warrant is what my concern is.

 

[rkf]

I do not believe JW would for a minute cause harm much less death to Mr. S.. The SS family was his "golden goose" so to speak. Before his FB and Twitter accounts were taken down JW boasted about his new job and how much he loved it. Down to and including his post of the picture of the money (20K) and stating how insane (sarcastically) his job was. He was rubbing elbows with one of DC's most elite families. In killing the golden goose there are no more golden eggs for him and he is now back to the unemployment line.

I also believe that JW may have been terminated from Autobahn simply for a conflict of "interest". His GF was (and maybe still does) also work at Autobahn. Whether against policy or not, it generally just is not a good idea in the long run of employment. In his position he had begun a new racing "team" and actively promoting it and himself through FB (at least) with his new team which I am sure he met through work. He had met Mr S and PS through work and snagged the job as a private coach for PS until being replaced after the first of the year. I don't think Autobahn wanted any part of one of their employees moonlighting and coaching outside the facility. That would be a HUGE liability just waiting for someone to get hurt, which inevitably did happen to PS only 1-2 months after JW left their employ.

Just my opinions

I think Autobahn could be opening themselves up to a lawsuit if they fired JW because his GF worked there. He was the first employee hired, so she would have been hired after him, and he had a higher title. I agree that they may not have liked the "moonlighting" and it could have played a role in his firing. FYI, when PS was hurt in Phoenix, JW was not his coach. (You might already know that.)

I don't know if JW would hurt SS or his family. I also don't know if JW's ongoing employment with SS was a sure thing, if it had a predetermined expiration date and/or if anything had happened in recent times that might have precipitated an end to JW's job (like family members finding out about photos on SM). I agree that JW saw SS as the golden goose early on. I just don't know if the situation ended up being what JW hoped/expected.

 

[al66pine]

I understood from previous posts that green color was a factory color.... is that incorrect?

ATL
Short answer: IDK. Fairly early on ppl here posted or linked pix and/or vid of JW's car, which I do not recall as neon green, but more a med or grassy-ish green. No idea whether it's factory.

Long answer: Here's what I recall but have not backtracked to earlier threads. A neon-green BMW pix was linked & posted here ~ 2 wks ago. IIRC, pix came from a beemer forum posted there by (Abu Dhabi?) auto dealer, saying ~ 'Hey folks, here's a (model xxxxx) BMW w a green wrap.' I posted to the effect that it was not a factory color, not even paint, it was a film wrap (even linked wiki on vehicle film wraps).
And factory colors change, IDK how often.

Not sure how car's color ties in discussion or case.

 

[rkf]

In my mind this young guy was scared senseless and may have felt guilty and went on to "look guilty" in the eyes of so many. Obviously I do not know, but this is where I land in trying to understand his actions.


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I understand being sad and upset, and thinking that it was unusual to be asked to deliver $40,000 to the car. But at the point that he was interviewed at homicide, how would he have known the money was ransom money? Unless he was involved, I would think he still believed the money was for an auction - nothing shady about that which would require protecting SS by lying (I know - I think it's crazy, too and I don't see how the lies he told would "protect" SS). Even if he thought SS et al had been murdered, if the money was delivered for a legitimate reason, JW wouldn't necessarily be expected to link the money with the murders (except possibly to think the victims were killed for the money.) Unless LE told him, I think it would take a while to figure out that the money was intrinsic to the murder plot. So why guilt? That he didn't see dropping "the package" was a red flag? No one else saw the red flag, either. JMO

Wanted to add: at the time of his first interview, I don't see what JW had to feel guilty about, including not having the sense to know if you've been to a house that burns down, you should probably talk to the authorities. (I would give him a pass on that, although I would not give my own sons a pass - I expect better of them.) Once he lied to LE, I do.

 

[SeesSeas]

FWIW = For what it's worth

On JW's traffic offense, his "race" is given as "WHITE,CAUCASIAN,ASIATIC INDIAN,ARAB".

ITA with everything you said. My statement that JW identifies himself as "white" was in response to someone else's post that JW, as a black, urban youth, might have been afraid of talking to the police. I understand why some young men might be afraid of the police, especially given what has been exposed in MSM in the last few years, in many cases thanks to the relatively recent prevalence of camera phones. If someone believes that JW was afraid of the police because he is a black, urban male, and only because of that description, I was just pointing out that it appears he self identifies as white (or as you said, checked the white box instead of black) and he is from the suburbs, so that theory didn't hold water for me. If young white men are not expected to have the same fear of police, if JW self-identifies as "white", would he be expected to be less fearful of police than if he self-identifies as "black"? His father is also former LE, so I'd think he would have a different perception of police. Having said that, the mayor of NYC said he has had to have "the talk" with his biracial son, because he (the father) knows it can be a dangerous world for young black men.

BTW, I think "the box" is stupid. I understand why it's there sometimes, but skin color is an extremely narrow, superficial and inaccurate way to define someone. JMO

Who provided race information on JW's traffic ticket?
In my locale, LE provides race data on traffic tickets. The citizen doesn't 'check a box' for race. The officer makes a best-guess determination.

Here is some information that explains the general gist of some race reporting requirements for state LE agencies that became effective after 2001 (not recalling specifics of when)

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=252
Collected data from state law enforcement agencies with traffic patrol responsibility about their policies for recording race and ethnicity data for persons in traffic stops.

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=252#Methodology
Most agencies (27) relied on their officers' observation of the driver's race or ethnicity as the method of determining the race or ethnicity of the motorist. Officer observation was the exclusive method in 15 State agencies.
Twelve agencies also used information on motorist race or ethnicity from the State Bureau of Motor Vehicles or equivalent agency. This method was used exclusively by two agencies.
Eleven agencies also used information provided orally by the motorist. None of the State agencies used this method alone.
Nine of the State agencies used all three sources (officer observation, motorist self identification, and Bureau of Motor Vehicle data) to determine the driver's race or ethnicity.

 

[rkf]

IMO if they have not recovered those phones by now they never will. Even a half-wit perp would have certainly destroyed and trashed those phones by now.

LE must be hoping these are no-wit perps because they just executed another SW looking for the phones!

 

[rkf]

In that case maybe it just seemed like that's what they are searching for since we weren't privy to the whole conversation. Or they feel obligated to search for them even if there is no chance they still exist in anyplace where they could found.


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Another idea - maybe they were searching for them somewhere, hoping to come across some other evidence...

 

[AmazonianAbroad]

I think that is highly possible, even probable. LE can find out things really quickly. And my guess is that it wasn't one guy canvassing the neighborhood for info. They would be tracking down as much as possible about who the S's had been in contact with that day. And, if NG was at the scene and talking, then she would have been telling LE everything. And, if she knew at that point that JW had dropped off the $40k, then LE would have been interested in talking to JW.
IMO, he drove a neon green car because it would stand out, not blend in. I don't think it's a stretch to think that they ran the license plate. I think it's very possible that they taped in the car, just so that they could make sure they were able to speak with him. But if he were there the whole time, I wonder why they wouldn't have been able to track him down in the crowd earlier.

ETA: removed that JW painted his car neon green. He might have chosen it already painted that color.

Also, it would have been an arson investigation, immediately, even before the bodies were found, so the fire marshall well could have taped things up promptly, since the strong odor of accelerants was present. Also, once still living Vera was discovered, exigent circumstances were there for LE to act without a warrant, I'd think. Again, I firmly believe that any one involved at examining the area as a crime scene would have thought to include that car in the tape, just to make it really easy to track. The arsonist could have stolen it and abandoned it there, is what I'd have been thinking, if I saw an out of place vehicle. I also might have thought a fire bug might loiter to watch things burn. There are many reasons to think the surrounding area was treated as worth a look.

ETA After a moment's reflection, DCFD doesn't have the stellar history that the PD has, so who knows if they'd have reacted promptly and proactively. They have lots of failures in their track record.

 

[kammiemc]

I understand being sad and upset, and thinking that it was unusual to be asked to deliver $40,000 to the car. But at the point that he was interviewed at homicide, how would he have known the money was ransom money? Unless he was involved, I would think he still believed the money was for an auction - nothing shady about that which would require protecting SS by lying (I know - I think it's crazy, too and I don't see how the lies he told would "protect" SS). Even if he thought SS et al had been murdered, if the money was delivered for a legitimate reason, JW wouldn't necessarily be expected to link the money with the murders (except possibly to think the victims were killed for the money.) Unless LE told him, I think it would take a while to figure out that the money was intrinsic to the murder plot. So why guilt? That he didn't see dropping "the package" was a red flag? No one else saw the red flag, either. JMO

Wanted to add: at the time of his first interview, I don't see what JW had to feel guilty about, including not having the sense to know if you've been to a house that burns down, you should probably talk to the authorities. (I would give him a pass on that, although I would not give my own sons a pass - I expect better of them.) Once he lied to LE, I do.

I have mo idea if he felt guilty about anything, but a few possibilities that might make him feel uncomfortable would be that he sensed something fishy about dropping off the $ in the garage and didn't contact the acct or follow up with SS, or because took pics of the cash and sent them to his girlfriend because he had been sharing info about the family's wealth or other info in front of the wrong people.


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[rkf]

It is in the transcript that the DC Fire Dept was still in charge of the house for over an hour after the fire was responded to. The DCMPD subsequently took charge an hour after Fire Dept. Crime scene tape would not have been strung during the firefighting period.
Page 87:
4 Q Do you know -- how long was it until the
5 Metropolitan Police Department was permitted to enter the
6 home?
7 A After the fire was completely extinguished.
8 Q Do you know the time?
9 A The exact time the fire department entered and the
10 exact time the police department entered I don't have the
11 exact time.
12 Q Can you approximate?
13 A I would approximate over an hour.

Really? Even once they found the bodies? I thought there were photos of police tape up while fire trucks were still on the scene. I guess the fire was out by then.

 

[jggordo]

rfk you could be right on many levels. There are so many variables that we may never know. I am not trying to sleuth JW or his GF any more than they already have been by MSM.

The main point I have been trying to make is that it would not serve JW's best interest to collude or participate in harming or killing Mr S or his family. As far as the money, he would have made more from working with Mr. S in the next year or so.

JMO's

 

[rkf]

LOL, yes I edited the mistake. Like I said I got the purses and the cars mixed up.

The point I was trying to make, and it took me some time is that when Mr. S hired Jay Howard as PS's new coach he also hired an internationally known professional driver but also the owner of the distribution rights for Prago race cars for the US. In essence PS was driving in races sponsored by Prago, at 10 years old. Should JW play his cards right and the connection to Jay Howard he could easily do the same for the more adult models.

JMO's

Except where would the pay off be for the sponsors? Sponsors put money behind someone in expectation of a return. For a father, it might just be pride and his son enjoying the opportunities. For a coach, unrelated sponsor or car company, it would usually be something more tangible.

 

[rkf]

I agree but IMO LE didn't just happen to broaden the crime scene and close in JW's car. IMO, that was done on purpose and JW's car was the reason for expanding the tape. IMO, how ironic is it that LE would expand the tape and just so happen to take it just far enough to close in this bmw driven by JW. Imo, prior to JW arriving at the crime scene asking about his car , LE had information about JW andwhat type of car he drove. He was then taken straight to homicide.

Then.....he gets there and LIE. Not good.

IMO

Possible, but there have been so many possible coincidences in this case. The crime scene was expanded all the way to 31st Place, too, the opposite direction of JW's car on Woodland. I think they may have blocked the streets off that far because they didn't want the log jam of people turning around/blocked roads closer to the house/LE/Firefighting vehicles. JMO.

 

[rkf]

I think that is highly possible, even probable. LE can find out things really quickly. And my guess is that it wasn't one guy canvassing the neighborhood for info. They would be tracking down as much as possible about who the S's had been in contact with that day. And, if NG was at the scene and talking, then she would have been telling LE everything. And, if she knew at that point that JW had dropped off the $40k, then LE would have been interested in talking to JW.
IMO, he drove a neon green car because it would stand out, not blend in. I don't think it's a stretch to think that they ran the license plate. I think it's very possible that they taped in the car, just so that they could make sure they were able to speak with him. But if he were there the whole time, I wonder why they wouldn't have been able to track him down in the crowd earlier.

ETA: removed that JW painted his car neon green. He might have chosen it already painted that color.

If your theory is true, once the car was taped in, they could just sit back and wait for him to come to them. If they started searching for him in the crowd, not knowing if he was involved or not, they could have spooked him. Better to not show their hand (if they had any cards) and let him come back to his car IMO.

 

[rkf]

I understood from previous posts that green color was a factory color.... is that incorrect?

There is a special order color that looks like JW's BMW. Since he and his buds work on cars all the time, they could have easily repainted it, if the car wasn't the "right" green when he bought it.

ETA: JW is the third owner IIRC, so he would not have placed the special order for the paint color.

 

[rkf]

IMO it doesn't matter if he was sitting on his thumb or doing jumping jacks in the short period after he arrived at the scene until he identified himself to LE. It is not a concern to LE or the chief prosecutor and there is no reason to imagine he was up to subversive activities.

Driving to S house after learning of the fire, leaving the area at some point then returning before speaking with LE ≠ subversive activities IMO.

 

[rkf]

Yeah, this would make sense, and would also align with the just slightly pointed language Owens was using. I'm sure IF JW left the scene, he probably told LE that he left. Maybe he thought the tape would be down when he got back.

ETA: Told him in the interview or after, not prior to leaving. We do know, if what Owens is saying is correct, that the only time LE had contact with JW at the scene was when JW was wanting to get his car out.

Whatever happened, I think it's clear that Owens didn't want to give the defense any information about what JW may or may not have been doing. Not relevant to the PH and they want to keep Ago guessing. May be other reasons, as well. IDK.

 

[kammiemc]

ATL
Short answer: IDK. Fairly early on ppl here posted or linked pix and/or vid of JW's car, which I do not recall as neon green, but more a med or grassy-ish green. No idea whether it's factory.

Long answer: Here's what I recall but have not backtracked to earlier threads. A neon-green BMW pix was linked & posted here ~ 2 wks ago. IIRC, pix came from a beemer forum posted there by (Abu Dhabi?) auto dealer, saying ~ 'Hey folks, here's a (model xxxxx) BMW w a green wrap.' I posted to the effect that it was not a factory color, not even paint, it was a film wrap (even linked wiki on vehicle film wraps).
And factory colors change, IDK how often.

Not sure how car's color ties in discussion or case.

Thanks. The car color is only relevant in that it was a paint design meant to stand out and just might have on the block that LE was taping off. That is not a slam. I drove a bright red car when I was in high school because it was splashy. There seems to have been some debate about whether LE might have noticed JW's car before taping it off and why.



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[rkf]

Perhaps he did tell that to detectives, but the detectives got very confused.

LOL! Awesome! That was my first Websleuths laugh of the day!

 

[SeesSeas]

Driving to S house after learning of the fire, leaving the area at some point then returning before speaking with LE ≠ subversive activities IMO.

Arriving at S house after learning of the fire, was JW then seen "leaving the area at some point then returning before speaking with LE"?? Where is the source for that activity?