DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #20

[roverlwb]

I'd say it's close enough, and i'm very appreciative that someone would go to all this trouble!!

I based a departure time from the dojo on the earlier stated time that JW texted AS about the house being on fire at 1:43pm. He must have found that info from someone at AIW calling the dojo looking for SS. Remember, we're only looking at a ten to 15 minute span when LE called AIW and AIW calling the dojo, so a departure at 1:45pm is reasonable.

Also, JayMac suggested the the travel time would be closer to 40 minutes. I66 is known to have a lot of rolling parking lots in both directions and I was fortunate only to experience two of them. The 40 minute trip is most likely possible in the middle of the night!

 

[roverlwb]

His car was parked at the very end of a block. Streets in all directions were closed off that far away from the house.

<modsnip>

Why is JW's green BMW any flashier than the red Audi or even bigger, the red Mosler that SS owned and parked on his property? <modsnip>

This is the green BMW in question. This is not NEON green to me. And it doesn't stand out.

Study this picture closely.

When fire equiptment responded to the SS house arriving aprox. at 1:30pm, the police, using cruisers, blocked Woodland at Garfield(to the north) and 31st Place(to the south)immediately in order to keep traffic away from the scene of the fire. As you can see in the upper part of this picture, where the fire trucks are parked is the intersection of Woodland and 32nd St. and that intersection is completely impassable. Where the photographer is standing and to his right is 31st Place where traffic was being diverted.

Giving JW an arrival time of between 2:45pm(JayMac's time) or 3:00pm(my time), he would have had to proceed past the blocking police cruiser in order to park NORTH of that cruiser. The BMW is his car, as you can see in this picture the decal on the rear window of the Broke Racers Club. How likely would it have been for JW to persuade the officer to move his cruiser so that JW could park given the unfolding situation happening up the street? The only other explanation would be that JW used a different car to go to VA and return. Then, the PH transcript makes much more sense in JW approaching LE trying to get the BMW out from behind the crime scene tape.

Any takers?

I hope LE has the Lowes parking lot video as well as witness statements from those people at the dojo that could provide light on what vehicle JW was driving that Thursday afternoon.

 

[JayMac]

The only other explanation would be that JW used a different car to go to VA and return.

I really appreciate the time you put into this but we really aren't basing any of this on known facts are we? We are assuming certain details based on assumptions about other details.

We don't know for a fact the following: time(s) of info received by JW about the fire, the time he left Va and from where, what route he took, the time he arrived at Woodland, the time the referenced barricade went up. Nor do we know the incoming traffic on the route JW took.

So without needed information we are purely speculating and for what reason?

I haven't examined the car photo in the detail some have and maybe I'm wrong but I have no reason to doubt it is JW's car.

Another question to answer: I remember fires where the police used traffic cones in my neighborhood (D.C.) to block off streets. Did they initially use something or someone (e.g., a police vehicle) else to block off traffic and the crime scene tape went up at a later time.

 

[rkf]

Study this picture closely.

When fire equiptment responded to the SS house arriving aprox. at 1:30pm, the police, using cruisers, blocked Woodland at Garfield(to the north) and 31st Place(to the south)immediately in order to keep traffic away from the scene of the fire. As you can see in the upper part of this picture, where the fire trucks are parked is the intersection of Woodland and 32nd St. and that intersection is completely impassable. Where the photographer is standing and to his right is 31st Place where traffic was being diverted.

Giving JW an arrival time of between 2:45pm(JayMac's time) or 3:00pm(my time), he would have had to proceed past the blocking police cruiser in order to park NORTH of that cruiser. The BMW is his car, as you can see in this picture the decal on the rear window of the Broke Racers Club. How likely would it have been for JW to persuade the officer to move his cruiser so that JW could park given the unfolding situation happening up the street? The only other explanation would be that JW used a different car to go to VA and return. Then, the PH transcript makes much more sense in JW approaching LE trying to get the BMW out from behind the crime scene tape.

Any takers?

I hope LE has the Lowes parking lot video as well as witness statements from those people at the dojo that could provide light on what vehicle JW was driving that Thursday afternoon.

Do we have documentation of the time LE taped off the crime scene at the most distant intersections? I believe tape was put up relatively quickly, but not necessarily all the way to those intersections until later. I would really like to know what time the crime scene was expanded to 31st Place and Woodland Dr.

 

[rkf]

I really appreciate the time you put into this but we really aren't basing any of this on known facts are we? We are assuming certain details based on assumptions about other details.

We don't know for a fact the following: time(s) of info received by JW about the fire, the time he left Va and from where, what route he took, the time he arrived at Woodland, the time the referenced barricade went up. Nor do we know the incoming traffic on the route JW took.

So without needed information we are purely speculating and for what reason?

I haven't examined the car photo in the detail some have and maybe I'm wrong but I have no reason to doubt it is JW's car.

Another question to answer: I remember fires where the police used traffic cones in my neighborhood (D.C.) to block off streets. Did they initially use something or someone (e.g., a police vehicle) else to block off traffic and the crime scene tape went up at a later time.

We know that if DW was notified of the fire by an AIW employee, it could not have been before the fire department was notified at around 1:30 (unless the AIW employee had prior knowledge the fire was set.) JW's phone pinged in VA, but we don't know where in VA or at what time to narrow down his route. If he learned of the fire while at the dojo, that at least narrows it down that he was leaving from the dojo at 1:30 pm or later, as opposed to possibly already being on the way to DC when he got the call. If we go with JayMac's (very fast - and I thought I was a speed demon) 40 minute drive from Chantilly to the S house that afternoon, JW could not have parked his car on Woodland Drive before 2:10 pm. If the tape and the police cruiser weren't there until after 2:10 pm, then JW could have parked there. I don't see how JW could have parked there before 2:10 pm. Too bad we don't have time stamp photos of the crime scene tape. In the photo I've attached below, we can see tape much closer to the house while smoke is still billowing from the roof. IIRC, the deputy fire chief said it took half an hour to get the fire under control. The DCFD blog states "It took well over an hour before the incident could be declared under control." http://www.dcfd.com/may2015.php Not sure if this is at all helpful, but I'm trying to see what is possible within the narrowest parameters. I think it probably took JW a bit longer to be notified and get to the S house, but 2:10 would be the earliest he could arrive in my opinion.

 

[Peliman]

I think it's hard to narrow down times of tape going up. FWIW the tape in the pic with the green car is pieced together, possibly made from several pieces. Maybe it took time to collect it all to reach across the street.

 

[FelicityLemon]

I don't know. Working at an autobahn, or being the assistant to a wealth, seemingly nice and generous man. Me personally, I'd jump all over being the assistant. Jmo

There's a lot to be said for for working closely with or for the boss. There's a always the possibility of it turning into a mentor/mentee relationship. JW may have discovered he had potential in a completely different direction in addition to to the racing he loves so much .

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I based a departure time from the dojo on the earlier stated time that JW texted AS about the house being on fire at 1:43pm. He must have found that info from someone at AIW calling the dojo looking for SS. Remember, we're only looking at a ten to 15 minute span when LE called AIW and AIW calling the dojo, so a departure at 1:45pm is reasonable.

Also, JayMac suggested the the travel time would be closer to 40 minutes. I66 is known to have a lot of rolling parking lots in both directions and I was fortunate only to experience two of them. The 40 minute trip is most likely possible in the middle of the night!

Would it have been faster to take the toll road?

Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk

 

[FelicityLemon]

I think it's hard to narrow down times of tape going up. FWIW the tape in the pic with the green car is pieced together, possibly made from several pieces. Maybe it took time to collect it all to reach across the street.

They will also break the tape in order to let vehicles in or out. They have to patch-piece it back together.

I also see that in the pic#2 of rkf post, there's tape immediately in front of SS home. Later via tweets and updated map a wonderful WSer made for us, it looks like the tape was advanced back to the intersection. As if the tape started at a closer perimeter, then enlarged to encompass more territory (cars) as time went on. I think that's what happened to JW's car.

 

[kammiemc]

They will also break the tape in order to let vehicles in or out. They have to patch-piece it back together.

I also see that in the pic#2 of rkf post, there's tape immediately in front of SS home. Later via tweets and updated map a wonderful WSer made for us, it looks like the tape was advanced back to the intersection. As if the tape started at a closer perimeter, then enlarged to encompass more territory (cars) as time went on. I think that's what happened to JW's car.

I thought it was kind of odd that Ago asked Owens to confirm specifically that JW didn't didn't drive through the tape (Owens confirmed he didn't--that his car was already there). But it makes perfect sense that he asked that if LE does indeed let some cars through the tape. (I was thinking Ago was insinuating that someone might crash through the tape like a wild man!)

 

[BondGirl]

Study this picture closely.

When fire equiptment responded to the SS house arriving aprox. at 1:30pm, the police, using cruisers, blocked Woodland at Garfield(to the north) and 31st Place(to the south)immediately in order to keep traffic away from the scene of the fire. As you can see in the upper part of this picture, where the fire trucks are parked is the intersection of Woodland and 32nd St. and that intersection is completely impassable. Where the photographer is standing and to his right is 31st Place where traffic was being diverted.

Giving JW an arrival time of between 2:45pm(JayMac's time) or 3:00pm(my time), he would have had to proceed past the blocking police cruiser in order to park NORTH of that cruiser. The BMW is his car, as you can see in this picture the decal on the rear window of the Broke Racers Club. How likely would it have been for JW to persuade the officer to move his cruiser so that JW could park given the unfolding situation happening up the street? The only other explanation would be that JW used a different car to go to VA and return. Then, the PH transcript makes much more sense in JW approaching LE trying to get the BMW out from behind the crime scene tape.

Any takers?

I hope LE has the Lowes parking lot video as well as witness statements from those people at the dojo that could provide light on what vehicle JW was driving that Thursday afternoon.

I agree!!

 

[katydid23]

I agree!!

What car would JW have taken when he dropped his off at the SS house? And why would he have taken it instead of his own? Are you all speculating that he took the Porsche or the Rolls to Chantilly? Why would he do that? I don't get it.

 

[kammiemc]

What car would JW have taken when he dropped his off at the SS house? And why would he have taken it instead of his own? Are you all speculating that he took the Porsche or the Rolls to Chantilly? Why would he do that? I don't get it.

Do you mean the Bentley? I doubt it, unless he had a previously scheduled appointment for it in Chantilly, or he had some kind of arrangement with SS that he always drove the company cars in order to save gas/wear and tear on his car (or for expense reasons--I think in the transcript it mentioned that he worked for SS and AIW, so maybe he was on the payroll).
I can't think of any reason why he wouldn't drive his own car to Chantilly and back, unless strettttttccccccchhhhing, he rode with someone who had a truck so he could haul to stuff to the dojo, or from Lowes to the Dojo.

 

[katydid23]

Do you mean the Bentley? I doubt it, unless he had a previously scheduled appointment for it in Chantilly, or he had some kind of arrangement with SS that he always drove the company cars in order to save gas/wear and tear on his car (or for expense reasons--I think in the transcript it mentioned that he worked for SS and AIW, so maybe he was on the payroll).
I can't think of any reason why he wouldn't drive his own car to Chantilly and back, unless strettttttccccccchhhhing, he rode with someone who had a truck so he could haul to stuff to the dojo, or from Lowes to the Dojo.

OOPS, Bentley, not Rolls.

Yes, I am just trying to understand what the implication is from this timed experiment, implying he could not have made it back in time to park where he did. If so, then what happened? I am trying to understand what is being implied.

 

[BondGirl]

I certainly appreciate our colleague's efforts in trying to retrace JW's journey but the time seemed rather long to me. Especially for someone who seems to like speed and would know how to maneuver that route in the shortest time. I can't imagine that journey ever taking longer than maybe 40 minutes to my place and I am only minutes from Woodland. But then maybe I am just impatient and reckless.

You can't imagine it taking longer than 40 minutes to get to Chantilly? Have you ever been to Chantilly? I live in DC and was shocked it only took 40 minutes!

 

[BondGirl]

Do you mean the Bentley? I doubt it, unless he had a previously scheduled appointment for it in Chantilly, or he had some kind of arrangement with SS that he always drove the company cars in order to save gas/wear and tear on his car (or for expense reasons--I think in the transcript it mentioned that he worked for SS and AIW, so maybe he was on the payroll).
I can't think of any reason why he wouldn't drive his own car to Chantilly and back, unless strettttttccccccchhhhing, he rode with someone who had a truck so he could haul to stuff to the dojo, or from Lowes to the Dojo.

I could see him driving the Range or Land River to haul things to the dojo and /or pick up items at Lowe's. If he drove an S vehicle that doesn't implicate him imo.

 

[facundo]

I'm still trying to figure out what happened to Websleuths today between11:23 and 4:53. Was it nap time?

 

[atthelake]

I based a departure time from the dojo on the earlier stated time that JW texted AS about the house being on fire at 1:43pm. He must have found that info from someone at AIW calling the dojo looking for SS. Remember, we're only looking at a ten to 15 minute span when LE called AIW and AIW calling the dojo, so a departure at 1:45pm is reasonable.

Also, JayMac suggested the the travel time would be closer to 40 minutes. I66 is known to have a lot of rolling parking lots in both directions and I was fortunate only to experience two of them. The 40 minute trip is most likely possible in the middle of the night!

Back to the head guy of the fire department stated the fire was contained in 30 minutes... And law enforcement was notified at that time and put up the markers :moo:

 

[AmazonianAbroad]

Would it have been faster to take the toll road?

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I used to have to do that commute (past Chantilly out to Dulles, actually) for HQ meetings a few times a month. But it was always at rush hour, a reverse commute though. I expected to be on time if I passed the NRA by Fair Oaks in an hour.

That said, if I went at the right time of day with little traffic and loved driving, I might take Chain Bridge and Parkways at every opportunity, and might have those routes ingrained.

Were there a sense of urgency, I'd think 66 would be the way to go, all things being equal.

It feels a little like an excercise in futility to try to guess his route. He made so many inexplicable decisions; I cannot relate to his reasoning.

 

[kammiemc]

Back to the head guy of the fire department stated the fire was contained in 30 minutes... And law enforcement was notified at that time and put up the markers :moo:

AtTheLake, this is not a challenge at all, just want to understand. Are you saying that 30 mins post the fire dept arriving, so approx 1:54, the fire was contained and the markers were set up so that cars (presumably) couldn't drive past those markers into the area where JW's BMW was parked?

I don't think it's a totally crazy thought that JW could have driven a different car (my old nanny/personal asst always drove my car and parked her car at my house, every single day) but I can't see why JW would have parked a block away in a 2-hour zone for non-locals.

Rover, are you thinking there is an implication to this time discrepancy (assuming here that it is accurate)? I am open and have no idea about this witness based on all we know and don't know--and also it struck me a bit how adamant Bach was that Ago not be able to ask how JW's whereabouts were verified. Makes me think there is a chance that the verification was not rock solid.

ETA: Now that I think about it, it would only make sense that JW always drove the S cars if JW almost always drove SS to work (according to Owens). No matter how down-to-earth and wonderful SS absolutely seems to have been, I am really sure he would have preferred to be transported to work in one of his cars rather than JW's--even though lime green is common and BMW's are nice (I have the lowest of the low 2012 model myself in white. It's okay for me to commute in, but all my family members hate riding in it).