DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #22

[jjenny]

Why does motive has to be one or the other? It could be both money and revenge intertwined.

 

[Inthedetails]

Motive is the oddest part of this case IMO, esp with absurd violence apparently inflicted on the most helpless, blameless victim. Whether DW wanted money or revenge, IMO there’s no reason for him to isolate the child and attack him more than other victims.

MOO known facts suggest mixed motive, or even no clear motive at all beyond the rage of a beast committing atrocities for his own amusement. If so, why SS & his family, & why that day?

Financial motive support: ransom demand; risks taken to arrange and wait for money delivery; taking victims’ cell phones, which are easy instant-sells by any street ****; immediate post-crime expenditure on immigration attorney.

Financial motive undermined: left behind other easy-sell valuables incl martial arts swords; burned Porsche instead of stripping parts for sale; few apparent plans for cash beyond buying money orders & driving around with them.

Revenge motive support: SS’s business had fired DW and apparently at least one other member of his family; DW personal history of over-the-top violence and threats, including against children; DW history of hanging around SS business/home (per witness) incl w weapon.

Revenge motive undermined: DW firing was decade ago; per reports DW ranted on FB up to 100 times a day but never mentioned SS; child was separated from parents, which diminishes their knowledge of his suffering so IMO is inconsistent with hurting him to increase his parents’ anguish.

All MOO, just ‘thinking out loud.’

I like this support/undermined approach for motive. I will borrow that approach in future cases, I'm sure.

Add to the "financial motive support": Cash in large amount, fast. He wasn't going for items he could sell on the street, but big money. He needed a victim who could provide a large amount of cash. (I think he expected more than $40K, but even that amount is more than he would get by stealing items from the house. And it came in one bundle, which is what I think he was after.)

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

MOO known facts suggest mixed motive, or even no clear motive at all beyond the rage of a beast committing atrocities for his own amusement. If so, why SS & his family, & why that day?

Snipped

As for why the atrocities, my working theory is that DW had no idea it would take overnight to get a huge amount of cash. I think he had the notion that rich people have access to all the cash they want, on demand.

When it took overnight to get cash, and when he learned that there are safeguards and regulations that limit the amount of cash that SS could get without setting alarms, DW took out his rage on the family.

If DW were able to break in the house, demand a bunch of money, and leave within an hour, I think he would've left without all the violence.

No proof in that, just a working theory, speculation. And, subject to change.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

Why does motive has to be one or the other? It could be both money and revenge intertwined.

Yes. I agree.

But I don't think revenge is what prompted the crime. I personally think it was money.

In other words, I don't think the thought process was:
I hate SS and want to destroy him and his family therefore I will rob and kill them.

But rather:
I need a lot of money and that jerk SS has a lot of money so I'll rob him and his family - and then hurt/killed them in the process.

jmo

 

[MyBelle]

"Wint’s legal team also said Savvas Savopoulos’ assistant, Jordan Wallace, knows Wint’s half-brother and also was familiar with the family and the inside of the home, which they say will also tie Wallace to the crime." It is my opinion that those dudes knew each other from "around the way" as we say and it will come out at some point that JW was indeed involved.

Defense Claims Suspect's Brothers Committed Mansion Murders

ITA. JW knew what was going down which is why he made sure he was somewhere else and captured on video.
JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

ITA. JW knew what was going down which is why he made sure he was somewhere else and captured on video.
JMO

What was JW's motive? He had a great gig going with the SS job - a dream job that had potential to grow and turn into a long career with the family. Why would he risk that? For a share of $40K and a risk of jail? I don't think so.

(FWIW, I don't think he was involved and I believe his testimony that he didn't know the Wint family.)

jmo

 

[MyBelle]

What was JW's motive? He had a great gig going with the SS job - a dream job that had potential to grow and turn into a long career with the family. Why would he risk that? For a share of $40K and a risk of jail? I don't think so.

(FWIW, I don't think he was involved and I believe his testimony that he didn't know the Wint family.)

jmo

Was it a great gig? Driver for a rich guy doesn't sound like a "career path" many young men would choose. Being hit with a perjury charge will be the least of JW's worries if he's indicted.

JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

Was it a great gig? Driver for a rich guy doesn't sound like a "career path" many young men would choose. Being hit with a perjury charge will be the least of JW's worries if he's indicted.

JMO

Being connected to a family with a lucrative family business can indeed be a career path. Plenty of people have started off as someone's assistant and then advance. You might not think much of a "driver for a rich guy" job, but it could very well have been a stepping stone to something bigger in the future. "Who you know" helps in a career, and JW knew the boss and the boss' kid.

But, we'll disagree. No biggie. I think JW lost not only a nice job and boss, but people he really cared for.

jmo

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I like this support/undermined approach for motive. I will borrow that approach in future cases, I'm sure.

Add to the "financial motive support": Cash in large amount, fast. He wasn't going for items he could sell on the street, but big money. He needed a victim who could provide a large amount of cash. (I think he expected more than $40K, but even that amount is more than he would get by stealing items from the house. And it came in one bundle, which is what I think he was after.)

jmo

This was anything but fast as the house was surveyed for at least 6 months, which neither his work history nor his criminal history show him to be some sort of calm strategic thinker who will plan things out, but instead someone who is emotional and reactive. Also along those lines of him being a hired hand was that the prosecution themselves presented testimony showing DW arriving on foot the day of the fire rather than the day prior when the crimes first started.

 

[Inthedetails]

This was anything but fast as the house was surveyed for at least 6 months, which neither his work history nor his criminal history show him to be some sort of calm strategic thinker who will plan things out, but instead someone who is emotional and reactive. Also along those lines of him being a hired hand was that the prosecution themselves presented testimony showing DW arriving on foot the day of the fire rather than the day prior when the crimes first started.

I wasn't clear what I meant. There is some questioning why DW didn't steal much or anything from the house if his motivation was robbery, and it's my speculation he wanted a bundle of cash all at once - not items that he would then have to go sell.

By "fast" I mean that his goal at the end of the robbery was to have cash in hand. I did not mean to imply by the word "fast" that the robbery was a spur of the moment.

jmo

 

[taylorss]

Was it a great gig? Driver for a rich guy doesn't sound like a "career path" many young men would choose. Being hit with a perjury charge will be the least of JW's worries if he's indicted.

JMO

Lots of reporting on JW at start of case (early threads) showed he was amature race car driver working toward dream of landing big-$ sponsorship. Taking his racing to the next level required high entry fees into bigger races, so sponsorship was key. Now he is driving around for wealthy SS who collects dream cars and teaching SS’s son to race go-karts. IMO this was about best possible position he could be in, he likely saw it that way too.

 

[taylorss]

along those lines of him being a hired hand was that the prosecution themselves presented testimony showing DW arriving on foot the day of the fire rather than the day prior when the crimes first started.

DW was seen entering the house on 5/14, second day of attack, but that doesn’t mean he was uninvolved until that point! He could have left the house & returned, been checking for movement on the grounds, etc.

This ties into the FB evidence so I went back & looked at reporting (link below). DW’s involvement from the start of the crime 5/13 is strongly implied IMO by pros evidence that DW customarily used FB “about 100 times per day,” but went virtually silent on May 13- 14, sending only one msg during the period of the attack.

Attorneys for man charged in 2015 quadruple killings prepare for September trial

 

[jjenny]

Anyone can claim anything as defense attorneys often do. Proving it is another matter altogether.

Exactly. What proof was provided of any of these claims by the defense?
Although I am curious why prosecution hasn't tried to go after DW's brothers, in addition to DW. DW's defense claims the brothers were there. I am not convinced they weren't. Police theory all alone was that more than one person was involved.

 

[PrinceFan]

Was it a great gig? Driver for a rich guy doesn't sound like a "career path" many young men would choose. Being hit with a perjury charge will be the least of JW's worries if he's indicted.

JMO

I agree with this! JW had no job security with the S family, yes he had a cool job, but it could have been snatched away in an instant. How would he pay for his expensive races otherwise?? I believe there was a story (my memory has faded a bit) posted after this horrible crime about JW, from people who worked at the racetrack JW was teaching PS, that JW was absolutely jealous of Phillip and hated him, and PS may have told his father that he didn't like JW, that made complete sense to me why PS received the worst heinous torture, because JW WAS involved and this was his way of exacting revenge against a child he resented for having access to all the things JW wanted. I'm looking for the story now. I don't see why people find it so hard to believe JW wouldn't know the Wint's since they lived around each other. Does anyone think he would actually admit to knowing them on the witness stand?! Heck no! It will all come out someway someday. This is my opinion and those who don't share it can keep it moving. Not interested in arguing or hostility.

 

[PrinceFan]

Exactly. What proof was provided of any of these claims by the defense?
Although I am curious why prosecution hasn't tried to go after DW's brothers, in addition to DW. DW's defense claims the brothers were there. I am not convinced they weren't. Police theory all alone was that more than one person was involved.

How do you know the defense doesn't have proof that the brother and JW were involved? We don't know what evidence the defense has.

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

Lots of reporting on JW at start of case (early threads) showed he was amature race car driver working toward dream of landing big-$ sponsorship. Taking his racing to the next level required high entry fees into bigger races, so sponsorship was key. Now he is driving around for wealthy SS who collects dream cars and teaching SS’s son to race go-karts. IMO this was about best possible position he could be in, he likely saw it that way too.

Yes, SS was connected to racing which was the dream of JW and PS.
This is from SS obituary- it shows how connected to the world of racing SS was.

“Most recently, Savvas assumed significant responsibility as a judge on the International Court of Appeals of the Federation Internationale de l'Automobile in Paris, France. The FIA Court of Appeals is the final appeal tribunal for international motorsports. Savvas was unanimously elected to this position by the member nations of the Federation.”

This is a big deal in the world of Formula 1 and International Motorsport. He could have introduced JW to team owners and sponsors.

Philip Savvas Savopoulos Obituary - Washington, DC

JMO

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

Lots of reporting on JW at start of case (early threads) showed he was amature race car driver working toward dream of landing big-$ sponsorship. Taking his racing to the next level required high entry fees into bigger races, so sponsorship was key. Now he is driving around for wealthy SS who collects dream cars and teaching SS’s son to race go-karts. IMO this was about best possible position he could be in, he likely saw it that way too.

PS was involved in karting.
This is a bit different that the go carts at Mountasia or people have at home.
This is the way into Formula 1 racing.
Much more expensive and prestigious than NASCAR.

HOME

 

[TFNYBRKS]

@PrinceFan This is my first time hearing anything about JWs relationship with PS. I'd like to see more information about that when you find it. JW and the circumstantial evidence of his involvement with this crime has always made me uneasy. Both Fox5 and WTOP reported that during his interview with LE, he said that the house had been "set on fire" before the cause of the fire had been released to the public. Something does not feel right, IMO but it is just my opinion. It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds.

 

[MyBelle]

I agree with this! JW had no job security with the S family, yes he had a cool job, but it could have been snatched away in an instant. How would he pay for his expensive races otherwise?? I believe there was a story (my memory has faded a bit) posted after this horrible crime about JW, from people who worked at the racetrack JW was teaching PS, that JW was absolutely jealous of Phillip and hated him, and PS may have told his father that he didn't like JW, that made complete sense to me why PS received the worst heinous torture, because JW WAS involved and this was his way of exacting revenge against a child he resented for having access to all the things JW wanted. I'm looking for the story now. I don't see why people find it so hard to believe JW wouldn't know the Wint's since they lived around each other. Does anyone think he would actually admit to knowing them on the witness stand?! Heck no! It will all come out someway someday. This is my opinion and those who don't share it can keep it moving. Not interested in arguing or hostility.

I happen to agree with you. I was on these threads back then. Perhaps JW's attorney wasn't in court because he knew JW intended to lie on the witness stand? iirc JW didn't coach PS, it was someone else. All JW did was drive them around. JMO

 

[taylorss]

The apt complex connection is tenuous though IIRC when DW’s sister moved into apt complex, JW’s father had already moved out. DW didn’t maintain personal address but sometimes stayed with sister. per early reporting. Not clear JW ever lived with father as opposed to in mother’s separate home ? But even if JW ever lived there, he’d have moved out before DW sister moved in.

Also they are not likely acquaintances IMO - DW 5+ years older, violent criminal; JW ambitious dream-chaser & IIRC JW father is in LE.