DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #7

[MyBelle]

Let's make some headway on the locked vs unlocked car. Why lie about that?

Since it was UNlocked when W1 first said it was locked, what does that mean? I would assume that the family would normally keep the cars locked. So UNlocked might mean someone opened the car before W1 arrived. Did he see that someone but not question who that someone was?? He doesn't want to admit he saw the perp and missed the chance to save the family so he lied and said he himself unlocked the car?

And now that I think about it - WHY leave the money in the car at all? Why not on a shelf in the garage or at the doorway in the garage. Why did Wint want the money in the car??

The lie about the locked vs UNlocked must mean something or why would it be called out in the doc as a lie?

????

If the family routinely locked the cars, W-1 would need to explain to cops why he was carrying a key to that particular car and he couldn't.

JMO

 

[birpu]

Question to everyone...................
if you were a new employee and your employer asked you to get a large amount of CASH and deliver it with the description of putting it in a car..............would you do it? would you question why?
this bothers me.
would you think something was wrong? would you ask for help? Thanks for answers

I would do it, but I would refuse to leave it unattended anywhere, especially in the garage of the house, knowing others come and go from there. I would insist on a witness at a minimum - I would have asked to bring the employee with me, and returned him/her to AIW after.

 

[MyBelle]

This may seem like a silly question - who locks their car in a garage?

The keys are not left in the car. With all these luxury cars did he have a locked key box or just a rack for the keys?

Having three kids, there were probably bicycles, scooters, and numerous other toys in the garage. This would mean kids would be in and out of the garage during the day. SS probably felt his family, home, cars, etc., were perfectly safe in that neighborhood. So having the alarm system on while people were in the house was not needed. I did read that Wint had SS erase parts of the video on the security system. No link.

Our entire neighborhood has been warned by police to keep our cars locked. There have been several garage and car break-in's but if it's locked, it will trigger the alarm system.

 

[MyBelle]

Well said.

 

[birpu]

If the family routinely locked the cars, W-1 would need to explain to cops why he was carrying a key to that particular car and he couldn't.

JMO

His statement said he went into the garage and located a key to unlock the car, put the envelope on the seat and then locked the car and closed the garage. So the key according to his first statement is kept somewhere in the garage.

 

[MyBelle]

His statement said he went into the garage and located a key to unlock the car, put the envelope on the seat and then locked the car and closed the garage. So the key according to his first statement is kept somewhere in the garage.

That's so totally unbelievable, it's laughable. Nobody locks an expensive car in the garage and then leaves the key to it in said garage. If that were true, police would have found the key in the garage.

JMO

 

[PeaceForTheWronged]

Any parent would gladly give their own life to save their child's life. Take one look at DW and you know he is not right. He might have been high as a kite holding a knife to PS's throat (and I am so sickened to say that, but we know things got much darker than that) and SS might have believed he could buy time without risking his son's life by complying.

If I were his wife, I would be pissed if he even slightly considered my future feelings over doing whatever actions he thought had the best chance of saving my child. SS seemed to be an honorable, smart man. I kind of can't believe we are criticizing his actions when we have no idea what they were. He might have fought DW or even ran for the door. He might have done all sorts of things we don't know about. In the end, he lost in the worst way. But maybe he did try to do some brilliant things, but against a cold-hearted, insane killer, he had no chance.

Yes yes yes...to wit: In the VM to NG, pay attention to the pause between "If you can..." and "...TELL ANYONE who might be worried about her" -- he was assuming that NG would have heard Philip's shrieks, and he assumed she would note the contradiction that AS was NOT going out that night (as he had just hours before told NG) but rather was instead "sick in bed", and he assumed she would note the pregnant pause before "TELL ANYONE" -- he assumed she would decipher these as signals to tell LE that something was awry in his home.

Btw I may have his terminology a bit wrong (i.e. maybe it was "Tell anybody" instead of "Tell anyone"), but I cannot bring myself to hear that VM again to verify his exact wording. Too heartbreaking to hear Philip in the background again. But that pause after "If you can..." -- THAT is burned into my brain. SS was sending a distress signal that was tragically too cryptic for NG to decipher.

 

[rkf]

That's rich considering we don't know the experiences of the members on this board. I personally am a survivor of mine.

I think everyone does the best they can to survive in any traumatic situation. Some people fight. Some people accede. Some people die. Some people live. There is no one formula that will work in every situation. And until you are in the situation, you don't know what response is best. And sometimes people do everything in their power to survive, and they don't. Sometimes people do everything right, and they are still raped and murdered. Sometimes, for no reason, a perp lets someone go, when it would make make rational sense to kill him/her.

Criticizing the actions of SS and his family is victim-blaming in my eyes.

Also, everything is not up for discussion in this forum. I had to go back and read the TOS because I was warned about sleuthing family members (when I was trying to find out if someone actually WAS a family member!) http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?65798-Etiquette-amp-Information

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[birpu]

That's so totally unbelievable, it's laughable. Nobody locks an expensive car in the garage and then leaves the key to it in said garage. If that were true, police would have found the key in the garage.

JMO

It does sound nuts with cars of that value. Maybe they are in a locked metal cupboard/safe or something, and W-1 has the key to that? We don't actually know if a key is missing. All we know is the car was unlocked when W-1 arrived but he said it was locked. For some mysterious reason.

 

[rkf]

thanks for this post.....the way im reading really does look like second guessing and monday morning qb'ing though. i truly cant say i will venture that i would do diffrentley cause i have never been in a situation LIKE THAT......but i didnt exactly get raised in the brady bunch house so i know what its like to survive under the threat of terror for years....
JMO

If you have siblings, I'll bet that different kids found different ways to minimize the threat. Some kids fight to draw the abuser's attention, to protect a parent or sib. Others try to never make a mistake and keep their heads down. Even in the same situation, different people/personalities use different "techniques" to reduce violence to which they're exposed.

 

[Plumeria5]

It's been confirmed that W2 is W1's girlfriend.

I think we need a flow chart. lol

 

[MyBelle]

Yes yes yes...to wit: In the VM to NG, pay attention to the pause between "If you can..." and "...TELL ANYONE who might be worried about her" -- he was assuming that NG would have heard Philip's shrieks, and he assumed she would note the contradiction that AS was NOT going out that night (as he had just hours before told NG) but rather was instead "sick in bed", and he assumed she would note the pregnant pause before "TELL ANYONE" -- he assumed she would decipher these as signals to tell LE that something was awry in his home.

Btw I may have his terminology a bit wrong (i.e. maybe it was "Tell anybody" instead of "Tell anyone"), but I cannot bring myself to hear that VM again to verify his exact wording. Too heartbreaking to hear Philip in the background again. But that pause after "If you can..." -- THAT is burned into my brain. SS was sending a distress signal that was tragically too cryptic for NG to decipher.

What I question is that he left the message at all. NG claims she didn't hear it until Thursday. NG also claims he was trying to warn her not to come to the house on Thursday yet on Wednesday he invites his young personal assistant to drop off a package to the house on Thursday. If he feared NG being pulled into it, why didn't he fear his driver's safety?

JMO

 

[jd dickinson]

I carry those too. I believe I was the first poster to suggest W-1 simply had a special racing bag that he didn't want to part with , so no - I don't think the fact of the red bag by itself is necessarily a problem. His original statement in the charging documents is quite detailed, though. He said he watched the employee enter into a transaction with the bank manager, who handed the employee a manilla envelope which the employee then gave to W-1.

Why would he think the money being in a manilla envelope vs the red bag (which the employee saw and put the money in) was something to make up on the spot like that? Why wouldn't he just say he put the money in a manilla envelope when he got to the garage? That's not suspicious. But lying is. So, then I wondered about the red bag. If he already had a manilla envelope, why didn't he just use that to start with if his bag was special to him?

I don't know, but my guess that he didn't want to talk about the red bag for the same reason he decided not to leave the money in the bag. Instead, he switched the money to a manila envelope, which would be more businesslike. The red bag, by contrast, was very unbusinesslike. Maybe he didn't feel like talking about how he carried $40K in a grocery tote.

Maybe, you know, the bag was specifically embarrassing to him:

I presume that the bag was an undignified way to convey $40K cash, so he came up with a manila envelope. Later in the aftermath of the murders, he didn't feel like talking about the stupid red bag or his stupid texts of the cash to his girlfriend, either.

As a teenager, I once got in trouble for burning the sleeve off my windbreaker, in a lounge at "very important place" where I worked. I wasn't really creating a fire hazard (stone floors), but, you know, very important places aren't thrilled to hear about deliberately setting one's clothes on fire. So, I was hauled in to the head guy's office to explain myself.

"Why were you burning the sleeve off your jacket?" he asked me.
"Ah ... to match the other sleeve," I stammered. "The left arm was missing. I decided to make a vest out of it."
"So, your jacket came with one sleeve?" he asked.
"Not exactly."
"So, how did it come to have one sleeve?"
"The left sleeve burned off."
"Burned off."
"Right."
"And how did the left sleeve burn off?"
"It caught on fire while I was driving, sir."
"Was your car on fire also while you were driving?"
"No sir. I was smoking."
"So you were driving down the road, smoking, and noticed that your jacket was on fire?"
"That's right, sir."
"And what did you do about that?"
"I pulled over. There was man watering his garden with a hose, and I asked him to put out my jacket."
"Which he did?"
"Yes sir. I thanked him and went on my way."
"Do you have a special attraction to fire?"
"No sir. I was just trying to even it out."
"Because wearing a jacket with one arm would be crazy."
"That's right, sir."

Sometimes young guys do dumb things, which makes sense to them or are funny to them in the moment, but sound really stupid later when spelled out in a different setting. In my case, I thought it would be amusing to make a vest out of my ruined jacket, never dreaming that the whole story would end up coming out to the big boss.

 

[rkf]

This was a life and death matter. I think SS would no more entrust the money drop off to the new kid than he would have let him in on the company's day to day financial operations. Not just a matter of trusting him with the money, but trusting he won't tell someone, panic, get stopped on the way for driving too fast, that the accountant and the person sent to the bank would not question handing over that amount to someone so untested, a company outsider despite known to the family. I wonder why JW would lie about when he got SS call--saying first, Thursday, and by voice, then have to admit it was Wed., the night before, and by text? I agree though that it's hard to see a DW/JW connection. Also does seem reckless of JW if he had planned to pull this off to leave such a blatant photo and text trail behind.
One more thing: The article linked to about JW today reports that LE have said the murders would have required more than one person to carry out. What evidence might suggest this to them about, not the hostage taking and control, the logistics, the fire setting, but the actual horrific killings?
I hope they all had hope that they could be delivered, especially the child.
Finally, I don't think SS (or anyone else) had any choice but to attempt to comply. I do think some choreography went into waylaying them and how to control. That's the part I'd think shows the need for more than one person. But according to the JW feature, LE specifically says the murders called for more than one. All of this speculative stuff is just my speculative stuff.

I wouldn't rely too much on anything said in that article. It was obviously written by stringing together information from other articles, web-surfing and possibly forum-lurking. It had at least a few inaccuracies (fingerprints on the pizza crust?) and didn't include any new information sources.

 

[birpu]

I do think the locked/unlocked car scenario is interesting from another angle. It isn't clear from the charging docs if the police caught him in that lie or he just changed the story. If he just changed the story, why? What difference would it make to stay with that lie? The police would not know one way or the other. But if the police did know he was lying originally, how did they figure that out? What would cause them to know the car was unlocked at the moment W-1 entered the garage? I can't come up with anything. So I'm assuming W-1 just up and changed his version. But it seems unnecessary.

 

[rkf]

Things that have floated on here include that JW knew how to weld (there's a picture of him welding) and that's how he met DW, the connection through Amerit where one of the Wints may work and service vehicles at the track or some other location JW or that they could have met each other in the same neighborhood...I think that's all, but there may be more on how they could have met.

Not sure if this is accurate, but IIRC someone said that JW's father lived in the same apartment complex as DW or a family member of DW? If anyone knows the details about this, would you mind posting? TIA!

 

[katydid23]

He wash't worried about the driver because he gave explicit instructions to him not to ring the bell.

He could not do that with a housekeeper, obviously.

 

[PeaceForTheWronged]

What I question is that he left the message at all. NG claims she didn't hear it until Thursday. NG also claims he was trying to warn her not to come to the house on Thursday yet on Wednesday he invites his young personal assistant to drop off a package to the house on Thursday. If he feared NG being pulled into it, why didn't he fear his driver's safety?

JMO

We can't doubt that he left the VM because we can hear it, although I don't have the link anymore - it was via ABC news, I'm fairly sure, but I can't dig it up right now, I'm sorry, too late here and I've got to hit the hay. NG is delusional if she thinks SS left her the VM out of fear for her safety -- he had no free will at the time of the VM (and nor did AS when "she" [probably DDW texting on her behalf] texted NG on Thursday morning); rather, he left her the VM (and DDW texted NG via AS's mobile) to minimize the moving parts DDW had to deal with, on DDW's orders. DDW (et al?) asked SS who else might be expected to show up during his/their occupation of the home, and then forced SS/AS to contact them to make them stay away.

 

[MyBelle]

We can't doubt that he left the VM because we can hear it, although I don't have the link anymore - it was via ABC news, I'm fairly sure, but I can't dig it up right now, I'm sorry, too late here and I've got to hit the hay. NG is delusional if she thinks SS left her the VM out of fear for her safety -- he had no free will at the time of the VM (and nor did AS when "she" [probably DDW texting on her behalf] texted NG on Thursday morning); rather, he left her the VM (and DDW texted NG via AS's mobile) to minimize the moving parts DDW had to deal with, on DDW's orders. DDW (et al?) asked SS who else might be expected to show up during his/their occupation of the home, and then forced SS/AS to contact them to make them stay away.

I don't doubt the existence of the VM, what I question is whether he was told exactly what to say. I believe he was.

JMO

 

[FelicityLemon]

Also from the charging documents:

W-l stated IT received a call from Mr. Savopoulos on Thursday morning, May 14,2015, and IT was directed to report to the main offices of American Iron Works, in Hyattsville, Maryland, to pick up a package and deliver the package to Mr.
Savopoulos at his residence.

W-l stated IT responded to the Hyattsville office and met another employee. W-l and the other employee responded to the Bank of America located in Hyattsville, Md. W-l and the other employee walked into the bank at which time W-l watched the other employee enter into a transaction with the bank manager.

At the end of the transaction, W-l witnessed the bank manager give the other employee
a manila envelope which contained currency (now known to your affiant to
be $40.000.00).

W-l stated the other employee gave him the envelope.....

...W-l admitted that IT had lied when lT stated the money was in a manila envelope when lt received the money from the other employee.

It goes on to say that W-1 claimed he found the manila envelope in the car and transferred the money into it.

W-1 has lied to cops and you might want to believe he's a honest recycler who shops at Whole Foods but I sure don't. If he did not know what the package contained BEFORE he arrived at AIW that morning, he had no reason to take any bag at all. Yet he produced the red bag for the other employee to place the cash in and lied about both the red bag and the manila envelope to cops a day later.

JMO

First things first - Cover Your *advertiser censored* and get people to sign for any transfer of cash. It protects both the giver and the recipient. I swear to whomeveryouwant that if my boss asked me to just casually leave that amount of cash (my threshold is actually much lower) in an object - no hand to hand transfer - I'd call police to say what was going on and ask for an officer to escort me and watch me do it and sign something to prove that he saw me leave $40k there. That my boss made such a request would pique most people's curiosity, and for sure, the police would want to know what's going on. That kind of cash can indicate kidnapping, extortion, ransom, drug deal, hit money. Cash for auction is traditionally in the form of a cashier's check to protect both parties. I'm curious as to why 1) the assistant didn't question this, or 2) the bank didn't red flag it. Of course, maybe they did. For sure, after this has come to light there will be changes in banking rules.

For that amount of cash, DEFINITELY I'd request we do that in a private area of the bank. I don't want anybody else knowing what I'm walking around with. Easy pickins'.

No way would I risk my job, my freedom, my future if that cash got stolen.

This is another thing that's weird. That first statement of his actually makes sense. I just couldn't believe that the employee who withdrew the cash would put that in his pockets, lol - ridiculous! No bank would let you leave with stacks of cash like that. Most people withdrawing large sums use a lock zippered heavy canvas or leather cash bag. If not, the bank will provide you with an envelope or envelopes.