DCF Shelter and Custody Hearings #2

[lstiff]

I'm knee deep in the Heather Elvis trial but checking in on my friends. I'm going back to read what the heck happened bc it doesn't sound good (in this case, it's usually not good) IMO So, :seeya: friends!

 

[Bobbywoo]

I dont see BS ever getting the kids. I dont see Mary being able to keep them if this **** keeps up with MS and his turning the girls against her. A neutral, very supervised home may be the best option for the girls. One that MS cant dictate. jmo.

I never ever thought I would feel this way, but I agree with you. This has gone too far and shows no signs of slowing down. I feel horrible for Mary and TS's family and just as terrible for the girls but I'm leaning towards the neutral third party as well. And where in the freaking hell is this court ordered therapy for the girls? It seems like they are still falling further under their father's control. I know most feel that they maintain this interaction with their father but I feel like the poisoning will continue unless his contact with them is revoked.

 

[MsJosie]

Which side called for an evaluation of MS? Will both sides have their own doctors evaluate MS now?

Ok, I saw DCF requested eval. So now, question is, Are three evals done, DCF, Prosecution and Defense? I can see each wanting their own report.

 

[Bobbywoo]

Question: So if Mark's crew is so pissy because a case manager let it slip why MS is in jail for TS's murder do we really think they will be allowed to be aware of what goes on at his trial?
How long do you guys think this charade will continue? It was my impression that the therapy was to help the girls deal with their mother's murder as well as their father's incarceration for it? How will the healing start if the truths are always hidden and never told? Ugghhh, so frustrating. I'm not sure a proper fool proof answer even exists.

 

[Paulas88]

I never ever thought I would feel this way, but I agree with you. This has gone too far and shows no signs of slowing down. I feel horrible for Mary and TS's family and just as terrible for the girls but I'm leaning towards the neutral third party as well. And where in the freaking hell is this court ordered therapy for the girls? It seems like they are still falling further under their father's control. I know most feel that they maintain this interaction with their father but I feel like the poisoning will continue unless his contact with them is revoked.

IMO I don't think TS would want her kids with a third party. MS needs to be SHUT DOWN, one call/visit per week supervised by DCF/GAL, with possibility of more if DCF/GAL sees improvement in MS' behavior. He's such a whacko!

 

[1&2&3]

I guess this will be called OT.

Hold onto your seats! There is a TRIPLET to go along with MS and CWW! Spitting image and even had an orange-red shirt on the color of their prison uniforms. I saw him today and I do not live in Florida.

I was in the grocery store, passed this couple checking out, and stopped dead in the middle of the grocery aisle! Could not believe my eyes! He even turned around so I got a better look at him and my stomach turned upset down as if I was looking at the monster himself. My mouth may have sprung open. . .

Needless to say, the shoppers behind me were not too happy with me clogging traffic. So, moved, turned the opposite way to look from a different direction, and my eyes were not teasing me. What an eerie feeling!

Saw him again in the parking lot when it hit me "Picture, I need a picture"' however, at this point there was not a way to inconspicuously take one. I haven't learned to drop what I am doing, hit the camera button, and take a photo as my phone isn't an attachment to me, yet.

 

[kaen]

IMO I don't think TS would want her kids with a third party. MS needs to be SHUT DOWN, one call/visit per week supervised by DCF/GAL, with possibility of more if DCF/GAL sees improvement in MS' behavior. He's such a whacko!

Your lips to the judge's ear. I would love to see him shut down. I just don't think it will happen. I am also hoping for a good DSM-V dx that might make the judge even less sympathetic toward him and protect the girls more.

 

[msboo]

One would hope that a change would give them a perspective. I do think that because they are together they can keep the dysfunction going. Maternal grandmother can't discipline or take control of the family for fear that she will lose them--so she is in an awful bind. In hearing some of this stuff from today, I do wonder if it is not too late.

After reading here today up to your post, kaen.... I wondered the very same, then read your post. The tentacles of control & manipulation reach far & deep with undying strength and knows no bounds. What has been allowed to go on & continues to persist has to be daunting to MAG. I am totally sickened & disgusted with what's been allowed to take place in court how many times now ?! in the name of parental rights & custody essentially under the direction of a conniving maniac with the legal assistance of his so called attorney. My experience with control & manipulation was cotton candy compared to the monster presented in the Sievers family---it is VAST. There's an even bigger monster these kids will face in the future.

I'm of the belief that you cut the head of the snake off at once---snap that bond quick, slam the door, move on & forward. You don't mess with kids lives---a quick change to a new life with love, support and much needed therapy to start that new life. Not easy either AND YES very hurtful at first but possible to overcome. JMO but I worry it's too late.... I pray I'm wrong.

If it had been legally possible..... MAG leaving soon after MS arrest, taking the girls to CT, AWAY from was to definitely come and into the loving support of their mothers' extended family (including therapy).... is what it would have taken to break this sick bond that appears to exist. God help these girls and MAG.

 

[FelicityLemon]

It will be interesting to see if MS would prefer his children be placed in foster care rather than with TS' mother.

After reading MS diary entries and texts, it's glaringly apparent that he has few personal boundaries.

 

[msboo]

For MS's goal, there are no boundaries... never existed. He will sacrifice his kids daily living arrangements to keep them from MAG if he can. These are the games he plays--this is his life, always has been.

What really sunk in today for me was after now seeing these custody hearings endlessly drag on, it's not just the hearings now. It's the number of years these kids have been under their fahter's influence, day in & day out. Particularly the last 2-3 years. What they may or may not have inappropriately been exposed to.

 

[DexterMorgan]

IMO I don't think TS would want her kids with a third party. MS needs to be SHUT DOWN, one call/visit per week supervised by DCF/GAL, with possibility of more if DCF/GAL sees improvement in MS' behavior. He's such a whacko!

Agree. I just wish they start his murder trial already. Cww is there to connect the dots. Now add that with some circumstancial internet searches that Mark may have done in regards to getting away with murder. Then boom. Guilty.

He loses all rights and will be in a prison far, far away. Jmo

 

[msboo]

Question: So if Mark's crew is so pissy because a case manager let it slip why MS is in jail for TS's murder do we really think they will be allowed to be aware of what goes on at his trial?
How long do you guys think this charade will continue? It was my impression that the therapy was to help the girls deal with their mother's murder as well as their father's incarceration for it? How will the healing start if the truths are always hidden and never told? Ugghhh, so frustrating. I'm not sure a proper fool proof answer even exists.

AMEN, Bobbywoo​.

 

[simlyme]

I don't think alot of us here realize what it entails taking on 2 children that have been "damaged". This is the first reason we see so many older chidren languish in foster care.

Please don't take it the wrong way when I use the word damaged, what I mean is children with more baggage than they know how to handle.

I do not believe these chidren will ever be rehabilitated, NOT, after spending the amount of time they spent with their father. They will never see any wrong in what and who he is. He had too much time with them , even before they lost their mother.

Even if they go into foster care, the very best foster care, there will be problems and huge problems. They trust NO ONE!! Only their father.
They have to know some of how their Mom was murdered and at this time all they see is their father fighting for them ,and getting away with his shananigans. so, in some sense it diminishes the gruesome details of the murder.

That is why , from the beginning I was very adament about telling these girls EVERY detail on what happened and who was (is) involved no matter what pain it may cause them'
Now they are in a position worse than pain, they are in a state of complete confusion and hate for their Mothers side of the family. There is NO undoing this now.

The damage has been done. These are children, no amount of counseling and therapy will change their minds or hearts. They know what they know, and that is that Daddy "is doing everything to make things right for them, plus he has told them he will fight for them till the end."

They know nothing else and most likely blame TS side for the predicament they are in right now.

If I were in a position to make a call on the girls placement, as awful as it sounds, I would put them in a very structured type of girls home, with hours of therapy and counseling per day (separately) with minimal visits from family..

NOT as punishment at all, but, a sort of deprogramming until trial is over. This is the only way I see them having a chance at a "normal" life as they will become adults .

Also including love and discipline in a very structured way. Going to school on the same grounds as the program.

I am very fearful for what TSs family will endure in the next few years as this trial will be a long time coming.

This is all my opinion, but, having experience in foster and adoption, and the children I had, being very young, as in babies and infants, and still having extreme problems,believe me this will not be a walk in the park with children of that age and the trauma they've been through.

 

[kaen]

For MS's goal, there are no boundaries... never existed. He will sacrifice his kids daily living arrangements to keep them from MAG if he can. These are the games he plays--this is his life, always has been.

What really sunk in today for me was after now seeing these custody hearings endlessly drag on, it's not just the hearings now. It's the number of years these kids have been under their fahter's influence, day in & day out. Particularly the last 2-3 years. What they may or may not have inappropriately been exposed to.

The process of having these girls enmeshed with him happened from when they were very young. I am not victim blaming in anyway but I think Teresa allowed and participated in MS creating blurred boundaries, elevating himself above her, and allowing him total control of the girls and their lives -not unlike many people, especially women, who get involved with narcissistic, socio-pathic people. MS made a man in his image--CWW. MS had other people's wives. MS engaged in behavior that manipulated--the sex fantasies, the sex conquests, and the description of his experiences in his diary---all around him to view him as the center of the family's/marriage's universe.

It is no surprise that the girls react as they do. It is no surprise that he is fighting to the end to keep the girls in his corner. I always thought Teresa was killed because his house of cards was falling and her eyes were beginning to be opened.

I believe he did not come to court today because he knew he could not hold it together if he had another loss. Each time he sits and cries, he is not crying for the girls but rather crying because he can not make a dent in the dynamic--the judge controls him and he can't handle it.

 

[1&2&3]

Is there a small battle here between DCF, GAL, and the Judge? Plus add Mark and there are too many hands in the pot!

It truly amazes me at times on what the judge will allow and how he can't see thru what Mark is doing? While he is trying to be fair, has he ever asked how many times a day Mark calls or asked to see copies of telephone bills so he can see with his own eyes the number of calls? Anyone knows the number of times he calls is a nuisance! Plus, it doesn't give the girls a chance to have time on their own or with friends, or develop a relationship with Mimi. It is Mark's way of having them under his thumb for control.
IMO the judge turns a deaf ear to listening to this complaint. In a divorce case or family, this would not be allowed. What is the difference here?

This really upsets me! Two daughters, one is stronger, one is the leader and the other follows. We have heard that one has a medical problem - I pray that special attention is not piled on her. If so, she will just have additional problems as she grows up.

These girls need a strong person in their life to tell them a few facts right now! BS on everyone tip toeing around the issues one year after their mother's death! They are maturing, smart, learning or already know how to connive and get their way. Add to this 9 months of brain washing, isolation, and training by their father who master minded the murder of their mother. I imagine at this time the girls are not listening to Mimi, following directions or instructions, and doing what they want. No respect, love, or kindness shown as she isn't their mother plus Mark reminds them many times daily she is not their "boss". IMO it is time to set down a few rules so they can begin to adjust to their new normal. This is said with love and with all my heart. These girls must stop thinking, as their father does, that they can rule the world, the world is their's for the taking, and he is the only one to trust.

Mimi was handed damaged little souls to raise as their father is still undercutting every word or step she tries. Why is the GAL not more outspoken on their behalf? There are three sides pulling for help for these girls, DCF, GAL, and Mimi. Two sides opposing them, the inmate father who has lost his parental rights and his mother, who personally has stated she doesn't/can't raise them.

There it is in black and white! What is the judge not seeing? It is time to put restrictions on Mark with the girls, and make him win his time back! Do other prisoners get this much telephone time?

My opinions only.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Is there a small battle here between DCF, GAL, and the Judge? Plus add Mark and there are too many hands in the pot!

It truly amazes me at times on what the judge will allow and how he can't see thru what Mark is doing? While he is trying to be fair, has he ever asked how many times a day Mark calls or asked to see copies of telephone bills so he can see with his own eyes the number of calls? Anyone knows the number of times he calls is a nuisance! Plus, it doesn't give the girls a chance to have time on their own or with friends, or develop a relationship with Mimi. It is Mark's way of having them under his thumb for control.
IMO the judge turns a deaf ear to listening to this complaint. In a divorce case or family, this would not be allowed. What is the difference here?

This really upsets me! Two daughters, one is stronger, one is the leader and the other follows. We have heard that one has a medical problem - I pray that special attention is not piled on her. If so, she will just have additional problems as she grows up.

These girls need a strong person in their life to tell them a few facts right now! BS on everyone tip toeing around the issues one year after their mother's death! They are maturing, smart, learning or already know how to connive and get their way. Add to this 9 months of brain washing, isolation, and training by their father who master minded the murder of their mother. I imagine at this time the girls are not listening to Mimi, following directions or instructions, and doing what they want. No respect, love, or kindness shown as she isn't their mother plus Mark reminds them many times daily she is not their "boss". IMO it is time to set down a few rules so they can begin to adjust to their new normal. This is said with love and with all my heart. These girls must stop thinking, as their father does, that they can rule the world, the world is their's for the taking, and he is the only one to trust.

Mimi was handed damaged little souls to raise as their father is still undercutting every word or step she tries. Why is the GAL not more outspoken on their behalf? There are three sides pulling for help for these girls, DCF, GAL, and Mimi. Two sides opposing them, the inmate father who has lost his parental rights and his mother, who personally has stated she doesn't/can't raise them.

There it is in black and white! What is the judge not seeing? It is time to put restrictions on Mark with the girls, and make him win his time back! Do other prisoners get this much telephone time?

My opinions only.

Imo. The court isn't mandating for Grandma to stay home nor to pick up the phone all day long.

So she should take the kids on a summer trip to Connecticut. Jmo.

That isn't against the law . Jmo


She has custody. So if she wants to take them on a summer vacation with the kids; Then the court can't stop her.

 

[Lilibet]

I don't think alot of us here realize what it entails taking on 2 children that have been "damaged". This is the first reason we see so many older chidren languish in foster care.

Please don't take it the wrong way when I use the word damaged, what I mean is children with more baggage than they know how to handle.

I do not believe these chidren will ever be rehabilitated, NOT, after spending the amount of time they spent with their father. They will never see any wrong in what and who he is. He had too much time with them , even before they lost their mother.

Even if they go into foster care, the very best foster care, there will be problems and huge problems. They trust NO ONE!! Only their father.
They have to know some of how their Mom was murdered and at this time all they see is their father fighting for them ,and getting away with his shananigans. so, in some sense it diminishes the gruesome details of the murder.

That is why , from the beginning I was very adament about telling these girls EVERY detail on what happened and who was (is) involved no matter what pain it may cause them'
Now they are in a position worse than pain, they are in a state of complete confusion and hate for their Mothers side of the family. There is NO undoing this now.

The damage has been done. These are children, no amount of counseling and therapy will change their minds or hearts. They know what they know, and that is that Daddy "is doing everything to make things right for them, plus he has told them he will fight for them till the end."

They know nothing else and most likely blame TS side for the predicament they are in right now.

If I were in a position to make a call on the girls placement, as awful as it sounds, I would put them in a very structured type of girls home, with hours of therapy and counseling per day (separately) with minimal visits from family..

NOT as punishment at all, but, a sort of deprogramming until trial is over. This is the only way I see them having a chance at a "normal" life as they will become adults .

Also including love and discipline in a very structured way. Going to school on the same grounds as the program.

I am very fearful for what TSs family will endure in the next few years as this trial will be a long time coming.

This is all my opinion, but, having experience in foster and adoption, and the children I had, being very young, as in babies and infants, and still having extreme problems,believe me this will not be a walk in the park with children of that age and the trauma they've been through.

BBM

I was thinking earlier today about almost everything you just wrote, and the word "deprogramming" came to my mind too. All I know as an inexperienced layperson is that few of us of any age, let alone in our 70's, would be equipped to deal with the complexity of this horrendous situation without potentially making it worse. Although sending the girls away sounds awful on the surface, it seems just as necessary as when someone is in rehab for an addiction. These poor girls have been brainwashed or programmed and they are addicted to what their father tells them. He is their world. And I agree with kaen that he has always been their world because of his manipulation of the girls and Teresa. Deprogramming with love is their only hope. Poor little things. Do such facilities as you describe exist?

I know we've been concerned that cutting MS out of their lives will make them hate TS's family. I'm afraid that ship has probably already sailed. But in the long run they may come around if they get the intense help they need. Adults involved with sociopaths or narcissists are often told to avoid contact so they won't be manipulated. Aren't children even more vulnerable? Do MS's "parental rights" trump his daughters rights to a sane, healthy life?

My heart breaks for the girls and for TS's family. MS has effectively taken every part of TS away from them.

 

[MsJosie]

I can agree with the judge. If one of the kids wants to write in a language she is learning so be it. Imagine what turmoil these girls are in. If all at once, she is told she can't write in German b/c her GAL wanted it or grandma wanted it, I believe it will alienate her further from grandma and give the impression that the GAL is not on her side. I agree this man is a monster who is messing with their heads. But, I think the judge is right to temper things and not cut him off at this point. These girls are old enough to have access to the news and will soon see their father as a monster in the press. As I see it, the only hope that grandma will become safe is if grandma is kept out of the smaller things and the judge makes decisions that err on grandma's side but hold that MS can have a relationship with his kids in ways that they may have done before. I would bet the girls talked to him in German or wrote notes in German previously.

I am sure other inmates get cards written in other languages...the cards may take longer to process because of lack of interpeters, but the cards have to be read because of jail rules. If codes are found then there are consequences and because of this case I believe the jail will follow through. It is stange though...I bet MS told BS to tell the one girl to write in German....trying to be sneaky. Maybe the Judge is letting MS 'hang' himself again...was MS not told by the Judge to stop giving BS signals when she was on the stand? Time will tell.

 

[Oregonmama]

Imo. The court isn't mandating for Grandma to stay home nor to pick up the phone all day long.

So she should take the kids on a summer trip to Connecticut. Jmo.

That isn't against the law . Jmo


She has custody. So if she wants to take them on a summer vacation with the kids; Then the court can't stop her.

She has physical custody. The state still has legal. ....she still does not have 100% say yet.....until the social services case is closed , she still needs to walk a fine line.

 

[MsJosie]

Questions

1. What does DCF know about MS that they want this evaulauion?
Evidence that was found in the home and office?
The girls saying something to the counselor?
Reports from other people or the jail?
Something big triggered this now, not just a normal routine thing.

2. If the girls were placed in a foster home....
Would the phone calls be restricted from MS to the girls? I bet so, no foster family is going to put up with the constant calls
And have to monitor them. The foster family as a life, probably kids of their own or other kids, they can not be at the beck
And call of MS 24/7, even though he thinks so.

3. The girls are smart...one is the leader...not sure which one, possibly the older. Do they still have their one shared cell phone,
Even if it stays at BS house?
Do they have access to the TV news?
Computers? Newspapers? I feel MAG tries her best to keep a lot of the murder info away from the girls. I bet
MS himself told the girls why he is in jail....the girls had to ask, remember they are smart. I bet MS told BS to tell
The girls alot of info too.

4. Just what happens to those girls when they are at BS house on the week ends?

Good night everyone.....until tomorrow.