DCF Shelter and Custody Hearings #2

[msboo]

simlyme.... agree with your post.

 

[IQuestion]

I can agree with the judge.??? If one of the kids wants to write in a language she is learning so be it. Imagine what turmoil these girls are in. If all at once, she is told she can't write in German b/c her GAL wanted it or grandma wanted it, I believe it will alienate her further from grandma and give the impression that the GAL is not on her side. I agree this man is a monster who is messing with their heads. But, I think the judge is right to temper things and not cut him off at this point. These girls are old enough to have access to the news and will soon see their father as a monster in the press. As I see it, the only hope that grandma will become safe is if grandma is kept out of the smaller things and the judge makes decisions that err on grandma's side but hold that MS can have a relationship with his kids in ways that they may have done before. I would bet the girls talked to him in German or wrote notes in German previously.

KAEN...Since the "German reference" was just broached, I'm thinking this is a New "FALLBACK" Scam in MS's arsenal of annoying attempts to usurp the courts authority. "ALEX, I'll take foreign languages for $800!" U.S. Census statistics for Florida reports the LEAST SPOKEN LANGUAGE:
"What is German?" :winner: :winner:
French Creole 1.84%
French 0.60%
Portuguese 0.50%
German 0.42%!!!! Wow, I bet we all guessed that answer correctly!

Even more ironic is MS's attorney complaining about the girls being told about a brutal murder? Does everybody remember the picture drawn by a child that police photographed for evidence? Do you remember the photos of the girls (MSM) standing next to the police officers as their father was being arrested and handcuffed in front of their home 4 months ago? Surely they overheard discussions in the house of their "first placement" talker:MS's friend:talker and are now erroneously trying assign the blame onto DCF and MAGS as the only possible source of this "super secret information."
I'm beginning to see a pattern: 1) Told on your Bro CWW....(3 blows!) 2) Told on DCF (said brutal murder!) 3) Told on MAGS (doesn't take all my phone calls!) Hmm that's some interesting legal strategy at play....his predicament is EVERYBODY ELSE'S FAULT!

 

[DexterMorgan]

The poor girls are hoping that dad is innocent and he is leading them on.

Dipwad even held hands with Teresa and the kids to say a prayer for a safe flight home.

Imo. That is worse than Cww and Jrr involvement put together. Especiallysince he already knew what was going to happen. Jmo

 

[AC's Grandma]

I believe he did not come to court today because he knew he could not hold it together if he had another loss. Each time he sits and cries, he is not crying for the girls but rather crying because he can not make a dent in the dynamic--the judge controls him and he can't handle it.

snipped by me.

This, so much this.

 

[SweetCaroline]

The poor girls are hoping that dad is innocent and he is leading them on.

Dipwad even held hands with Teresa and the kids to say a prayer for a safe flight home.

Imo. That is worse than Cww and Jrr involvement put together. Especiallysince he already knew what was going to happen. Jmo

Exactly. He may not have physically participated in the bludgeoning, but he's even more despicable than the other two for the reason you just said. Disgusting pig.

 

[kaen]

KAEN...Since the "German reference" was just broached, I'm thinking this is a New "FALLBACK" Scam in MS's arsenal of annoying attempts to usurp the courts authority. "ALEX, I'll take foreign languages for $800!" U.S. Census statistics for Florida reports the LEAST SPOKEN LANGUAGE:
"What is German?" :winner: :winner:
French Creole 1.84%
French 0.60%
Portuguese 0.50%
German 0.42%!!!! Wow, I bet we all guessed that answer correctly!

Even more ironic is MS's attorney complaining about the girls being told about a brutal murder? Does everybody remember the picture drawn by a child that police photographed for evidence? Do you remember the photos of the girls (MSM) standing next to the police officers as their father was being arrested and handcuffed in front of their home 4 months ago? Surely they overheard discussions in the house of their "first placement" talker:MS's friend:talker and are now erroneously trying assign the blame onto DCF and MAGS as the only possible source of this "super secret information."
I'm beginning to see a pattern: 1) Told on your Bro CWW....(3 blows!) 2) Told on DCF (said brutal murder!) 3) Told on MAGS (doesn't take all my phone calls!) Hmm that's some interesting legal strategy at play....his predicament is EVERYBODY ELSE'S FAULT!

Could be an issue of usurping. And.... In the science world, many undergrads majoring in science take and become fluent in German---not because they will use it in life but because they will use in the field. As well, international business and diplomacy fields strongly support fluency in German. (University of iowa has a compelling page about why study German.) My guess is that the Siever's parents started the German thing rolling before Teresa's killing. These kids were home-schooled and I am sure there were lots of eclectic things they were exposed to.

I find MS to be a disgusting human being. I am sure the police were very tactful when arresting MS. I am willing to bet the police looked for ways to arrest him outside of the purview of the girls. I am sure MS created a beautiful narrative about being framed and what would happen if the police tried to accuse him of harming their mom. But, he controlled the narrative and I am sure he looked like the martyr.

He does make everything seem as though it is not his fault and he is a victim. I am sure he may at some point tell all about the trials and tribulations he faced as married to his wife. We know that he created issues about open marriage and infidelity while trying to make it look like Teresa was the impetus.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

The poor girls are hoping that dad is innocent and he is leading them on.

Dipwad even held hands with Teresa and the kids to say a prayer for a safe flight home.

Imo. That is worse than Cww and Jrr involvement put together. Especiallysince he already knew what was going to happen. Jmo

Pure evil!

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[Oregonmama]

After thinking about this more this morning and I know there are many things we don't know but if the girls do not show improvement soon then I really think an environment with trained professionals is better. This is way beyond Mary's grasp. If we were put in her shoes we would probably feel overwhelmed too. Even the GAL rep stated at one of the hearings that the girls are in marks court 100%.

Don't shoot the messenger, but if the girls have any chance at all of developing a more open mind in what truly is going on then this is the time for it. Younger kids can bounce back easily but we are talking about pre teens that already go through the emotional roller coaster as it is.

I say this with a heavy heart and it will be harder for the girls if this secret correspondence through foreign languages continue along with the obsessive amount of phone calls. Mistakes were made from the judge, dcf and attorneys because the real victims here are the girls and I would hate to see that they continue to grow up with these ideas of being "normal" according to what they think is normal .

 

[Zuri]

MAG doesn't stand a chance of "bonding" completely with her granddaughters as long as MS has any contact with them and can do so at will. IMO, this is why MS is fighting so hard to maintain that control. IMO he is not acting in the best interests of his children as they continue to be pawns in his games of "Own".

I truly wish that the children would be allowed to leave FL sooner than later. I would love to see them in a two parent household with other children like that of TS brother. It troubles me greatly that everyone is bending over backwards to accommodate and protect MS parental rights. Has JRR made any claims as to his parental rights regarding his children?

Can you tell I am over MS?

 

[Bobbywoo]

Imo. The court isn't mandating for Grandma to stay home nor to pick up the phone all day long.

So she should take the kids on a summer trip to Connecticut. Jmo.

That isn't against the law . Jmo


She has custody. So if she wants to take them on a summer vacation with the kids; Then the court can't stop her.

I hope you are right Dexter. IIRC MS brought up in one of the custody hearings that Mimi didn't always answer the phone when he called. That led me to believe that she may have been required to give him access to the girls any time he wants to and as much as he wants to. What are your thoughts about how that went down? My boyfriend went through an ugly divorce what eventually ended up in joint custody. He has them for 3 months in the summer (visits to mom on 3 weekends out of a month) but she is only allowed to call TWICE A WEEK. Of course my bf doesn't enforce it but he could if he wanted to. So my question is why is this ok for divorced parents but not a parent who is incarcerated so in a sense sharing custody with another???

 

[msboo]

BBM

I was thinking earlier today about almost everything you just wrote, and the word "deprogramming" came to my mind too. All I know as an inexperienced layperson is that few of us of any age, let alone in our 70's, would be equipped to deal with the complexity of this horrendous situation without potentially making it worse. Although sending the girls away sounds awful on the surface, it seems just as necessary as when someone is in rehab for an addiction. These poor girls have been brainwashed or programmed and they are addicted to what their father tells them. He is their world. And I agree with kaen that he has always been their world because of his manipulation of the girls and Teresa. Deprogramming with love is their only hope. Poor little things. Do such facilities as you describe exist?

I know we've been concerned that cutting MS out of their lives will make them hate TS's family. I'm afraid that ship has probably already sailed. But in the long run they may come around if they get the intense help they need. Adults involved with sociopaths or narcissists are often told to avoid contact so they won't be manipulated. Aren't children even more vulnerable? Do MS's "parental rights" trump his daughters rights to a sane, healthy life?

My heart breaks for the girls and for TS's family. MS has effectively taken every part of TS away from them.

Lilibet.... you hit the nail on the head here in my opinion. "Deprogramming" is needed as these kids have been "programmed" in a destructive fashion. MS "uses" to get what he wants, to survive. The kids would naturally pick up on that & learn although they are in the "used" position. Their learned survival skills are all they know, they will most likely carry on like this just to survive. Now.... LOOK at what they have to survive----murdered mother, father in jail, lost their home & now with MAG as head of their household. Early on it was stated the girls didn't spend that much time with BS, that they preferred MAG--I hope that's still the case as it will help along with some positive they picked up from TS.

They are in a tornado of emotions spun from life events, hard for them to see MAG has their best interests at heart----partnered with the allowance of their fathers' ongoing manipulation.

Agree with you, simlyme..... they need a very structure environment, need to be told the truth as appropriate with professional intervention & therapy and most important... either no contact OR, if any, strictly limited & controlled contact with the father. If up to me there would be NO CONTACT, jmo. This is kin to substance addiction, in that you don't hang around other such abusers. MS is an abuser, an addictive personality. These personalities either drug, drink, depress, gamble, resort to sex as their 'drug of choice', the list goes on. Control/manipulation is part of all these but can stand alone as it's own abuse to obtain ones' goal.

Prayer for these girls & MAG.

 

[Oregonmama]

Going to be honest here........

In the beginning I really wanted Mary to have the girls but the outcome of every hearing has suggested a non relative placement should be happening. I'm sure Mary is getting the brunt of the storm but her love is evident. But we don't know what kind of therapy or extra support Mary is given by DCF and the name calling event according to Mark might be true or not. I would be fustrated too if I had to deal with the aftermath of his destruction. He created an evil environment and Mary like most healthy ppl would have a hard time dealing with gaining routine and emotional structure.

We don't know what's in the treatment plan for the girls that is formed once kids are taken by a state agency. Different things should have been placed once they were taken away but I don't think ppl knew the whole game and it I think it will get a lot worse before it gets better.

Praying for the girls and Mary.

 

[SurfieTX]

After thinking about this more this morning and I know there are many things we don't know but if the girls do not show improvement soon then I really think an environment with trained professionals is better. This is way beyond Mary's grasp. If we were put in her shoes we would probably feel overwhelmed too. Even the GAL rep stated at one of the hearings that the girls are in marks court 100%.

Don't shoot the messenger, but if the girls have any chance at all of developing a more open mind in what truly is going on then this is the time for it. Younger kids can bounce back easily but we are talking about pre teens that already go through the emotional roller coaster as it is.

I say this with a heavy heart and it will be harder for the girls if this secret correspondence through foreign languages continue along with the obsessive amount of phone calls. Mistakes were made from the judge, dcf and attorneys because the real victims here are the girls and I would hate to see that they continue to grow up with these ideas of being "normal" according to what they think is normal .

I agree with you. It's so incredibly sad.

 

[Matlacha]

. . . I am totally sickened & disgusted with what's been allowed to take place in court how many times now ?! in the name of parental rights & custody essentially under the direction of a conniving maniac with the legal assistance of his so called attorney. . . .

I agree and perhaps go further. I think the judge, by allowing this farce to go on, is himself guilty of child abuse. In the unlikely case the judge has no choice under the law, then the law is guilty of child abuse.

 

[DaleTray]

I truly wish that the children would be allowed to leave FL sooner than later. I would love to see them in a two parent household with other children like that of TS brother.

I couldn't agree more. If the kids could be immersed into a normal loving family w parents and kids living a normal lifestyle would be a wonderful way to to introduce kids to normalcy. Maybe the parents would show structure and discipline to their own children by example w/o TS' kids feel it was being forced upon them. But I guess state and federal laws prevail at the girls expense

 

[Daisy47]

After thinking about this more this morning and I know there are many things we don't know but if the girls do not show improvement soon then I really think an environment with trained professionals is better. This is way beyond Mary's grasp. If we were put in her shoes we would probably feel overwhelmed too. Even the GAL rep stated at one of the hearings that the girls are in marks court 100%.

Don't shoot the messenger, but if the girls have any chance at all of developing a more open mind in what truly is going on then this is the time for it. Younger kids can bounce back easily but we are talking about pre teens that already go through the emotional roller coaster as it is.

I say this with a heavy heart and it will be harder for the girls if this secret correspondence through foreign languages continue along with the obsessive amount of phone calls. Mistakes were made from the judge, dcf and attorneys because the real victims here are the girls and I would hate to see that they continue to grow up with these ideas of being "normal" according to what they think is normal .

Sadly, I agree with you. Speaking of "shooting the messenger".... I'm about to get shot but IMO, though this situation would be extremely difficult for any member of TS's family who had custody of the girls, sweet Mary's age makes it even more challenging. It seems to me that the small things in life that at one time they deemed as "no big deal" tend to create huge anxiety for people as they age.

This is my opinion only (and probably not worth diddley squat) and is based strictly on my own personal experiences with elderly folks. In addition to volunteering in a nursing home for the last 15+ years, my precious mother in law lived w/us the last 5 yrs of her life and my Dad has lived with us since 2009. No doubt the younger members of TS's family have very valid reasons for not seeking custody, but I sure wish they had been able to. [emoji22]



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[MsJosie]

I couldn't agree more. If the kids could be immersed into a normal loving family w parents and kids living a normal lifestyle would be a wonderful way to to introduce kids to normalcy. Maybe the parents would show structure and discipline to their own children by example w/o TS' kids feel it was being forced upon them. But I guess state and federal laws prevail at the girls expense

The girls might not be placed together....but they could see what a family, with children, going to a regular school and activities would be like....now at their age.

 

[GutInstinct]

Such a exquisite post Oregonmama. Agree. If rep said 'they' are 100 percent in M's court, than the programming against TS -- and pro MS, by MS, had been planned and actively practiced for a very long time -- to achieve this exact desired result -- just like his planned, practiced and achieved murder of their mother. So heartbreaking. What true sociopaths do and how they operate... I have no words to finish this sentence.

 

[Greater Than]

A DCF approved relative who is capable of caring for the child is ALWAYS preferred over a stranger. Foster care is a last resort when a child is unable to be placed with a relative or another safe adult.

As long as MAG is willing to continue to care for the girls, that is by far the best placement IMO. She is their blood. She raised their mother. She will always make decisions that are in their best interest. She loves them.

They will one day realize how lucky they are that she made such sacrifices for them.

 

[Oregonmama]

A DCF approved relative who is capable of caring for the child is ALWAYS preferred over a stranger. Foster care is a last resort when a child is unable to be placed with a relative or another safe adult.

As long as MAG is willing to continue to care for the girls, that is by far the best placement IMO. She is their blood. She raised their mother. She will always make decisions that are in their best interest. She loves them.

They will one day realize how lucky they are that she made such sacrifices for them.

With the circumstances a non relative placement is necessary. I have no doubt that mary is capable but this case is so complex that it differs from the usual DCF case.

I'm always rooting for Mary but some things need to change emotionally before a relative takes over.