Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #2

[Reannan]

Gannon said: "It appears that in some cases they are going online and specifically targeting these individuals".

Exactly! It seems to me that someone should look at the computer lives of these people to see if there is a common website, a common "friend" a common "interest" a common SOMETHING that would help link them together. It is a valid point of investigation that is woefully missing in these cases. You won't see it if you don't look; and no one has looked!

 

[shadowraiths]

Shad- if I understand you clearly- are you saying the drowning aspect is a red herring- or the alcohol?

The alcohol. To clarify. The most common thread of contention—almost a mantra—that continues to be repeated is:

No foul play, no signs of struggle, they were prolly drunk and just oops'd into the water.​

We got to see it in action on Tuesday with William Jacobson. Yet, at this time, only 38% of the individuals (including Jacobson, btw) who have gone missing and/or drowned had consumed alcohol prior to going missing.

So, why are we even bothering to debate the alcohol point? That is, outside of pointing out that more than half of these cases do not involve alcohol in any way whatsoever. Imho, by getting drawn into a moot debate—in this case, whether a drunk person might (or not) fall into a body of water—only reifies an assumption that has already been proven to be a myth. But hey, that's jmo.

 

[RR0004]

I agree with you Shadow. It gives credence to what I feel LE contends...if they hadn't been drinking...
Well, I just recently went back to look at Kelly Nolan's case...and there it was again...she was out drinking...she had had a DUI...how that factored into her being abducted and murdered is beyond me. At least (if you can say that) there wasn't any water involved. If we're to look at the big picture here, we have to see this goes way beyond alcohol.

 

[Blink34]

The alcohol. To clarify. The most common thread of contention—almost a mantra—that continues to be repeated is:

No foul play, no signs of struggle, they were prolly drunk and just oops'd into the water.​

We got to see it in action on Tuesday with William Jacobson. Yet, at this time, only 38% of the individuals (including Jacobson, btw) who have gone missing and/or drowned had consumed alcohol prior to going missing.

So, why are we even bothering to debate the alcohol point? That is, outside of pointing out that more than half of these cases do not involve alcohol in any way whatsoever. Imho, by getting drawn into a moot debate—in this case, whether a drunk person might (or not) fall into a body of water—only reifies an assumption that has already been proven to be a myth. But hey, that's jmo.

Completely agree, thanks for clarifying, and I think this crime spree (for lack of a more diabolical term) is loaded with them. It is how it can continue, and grow. It's almost the hide in plain sight mentality- make it SOO unbelievable, people will naturally skoff..

 

[Blink34]

I put this on Kyle's thread, thought it made sense for here:

No evidence links missing man to string of killings, police say
Charlotte-Mecklenburg police say they have no evidence to suggest Kyle Fleischmann, a 24-year-old man who disappeared in November, was the victim of killers who presumably leave smiley faces by their victims.
Those cases, most in Minnesota and Wisconsin, have received national attention in the last week after a St. Paul, Minn., television station's report on two retired New York detectives who believe evidence links at least 19 and as many as 40 murder cases in recent years. All involve the abductions of young men, and most were initially judged to have been accidental drownings; at many of the scenes, smiley faces were left.
But Fleischmann's name was not mentioned in conjunction with the other killings, and there's no evidence that he was taken to or near water or any sign of a smiley face. Police have fielded calls about possible connections, but Fleischmann's disappearance remains a mystery.
"We remain open to any and all possibilities in this and all investigations, although we have no indication that Kyle's disappearance is linked to these other cases," said police detective Lee Tuttle, who is investigating the disappearance.
Anyone with information can call Tuttle at 704-336-3949 or Crime Stoppers at 704-334-1600. -- greg lacour

With the common thread of vics being the same, imo, this case should be reinvestigated and either included as a possibility or excluded..
Could yield more evidence for ALL cases..

 

[dairybest]

The alcohol. To clarify. The most common thread of contention—almost a mantra—that continues to be repeated is:

No foul play, no signs of struggle, they were prolly drunk and just oops'd into the water.​

We got to see it in action on Tuesday with William Jacobson. Yet, at this time, only 38% of the individuals (including Jacobson, btw) who have gone missing and/or drowned had consumed alcohol prior to going missing.

So, why are we even bothering to debate the alcohol point? That is, outside of pointing out that more than half of these cases do not involve alcohol in any way whatsoever. Imho, by getting drawn into a moot debate—in this case, whether a drunk person might (or not) fall into a body of water—only reifies an assumption that has already been proven to be a myth. But hey, that's jmo.

I lean towards having to agree with this. The more dominant themes or thread seems to be the age band, sex, their probability of being out during hours of reduced traffic (fewer witnesses) and their separation from loved ones.

Being out in the wee hours implies drinking but it also could just be socializing for many of them. They are young and newly free to do what they want. Being young men, they don't have the cultivated safety awareness that most young women do.

I think the colleges need to step up and agressively pursue safety education and awareness for the men. Finding out what has gone on is absolutely necessary but we also have to stop this from happening to even one more young man.

By the way - great discussion! I look forward to your research and brainstorming every day. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot to contribute.

Sincerely ~ dairybest

 

[RR0004]

Dairy Best...you most certainly do! Weighing in, offering your opinion, making yourself part of the "solution", and above all giving your time and support to evreyone here is the BEST contribution IMO.
Thanks for being here.

 

[Blink34]

Here Here to RR- DB. The whole is only as good as the sum of parts-

 

[SuziQ]

dairybest, you absolutely have a lot to contribute and I look forward to future posts.

 

[SuziQ]

http://www.vanceholmes.com/court/trial_missing.html

"Chris was abducted in a cargo van. He was driven around Minneapolis
for hours and tortured. He was taken down to the Mississippi River and
he was murdered. And after that -- his body was positioned and taken to
a different spot and then to a different point in the Mississippi River."
-- Jan Jenkins

 

[RR0004]

Curious...if this was an abduction, does the FBI have an active investigation going?

 

[SuziQ]

Curious...if this was an abduction, does the FBI have an active investigation going?

Unfortuntately no.

 

[SuziQ]

http://www.vanceholmes.com/court/trial_missing_2.html

The headline was as heartbreaking a thing as anyone could imagine. Friends and family are devastated, classmates and parents are shocked, and concerned people all over the Midwest are sad and angry.

Nobody knows how he got there, but Jared Dion's body was found in the Mississippi river. He had gone missing just before Easter. After five days of searching he was located not far from where he was last seen, at a point in the river near downtown La Crosse.

Police refused to discuss the condition of Dion's body.

http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/2006/11/041004-jared-dion-21-la-crosse-wi.html

Facts of Interest
Name/age: Jared Dion, 21, La Crosse, WI (from Pewaukee, WI)
College: University of Wisconsin, La Crosse (management major)
Physical description: 5'9," 165#, brown hair, hazel eyes, athletic build (wrestler)
Last seen: 04/10/04, 2:30 a.m., John's Bar, 109 3rd Street N , La Crosse, WI
Recovered: 04/15/04, levee in Mississippi River (30 ft from Riverside Park)
Cause of death: cold water drowning
Manner of death: pending
Injuries: no signs of trauma or foul play
Blood Alcohol Content: 0.27
Reported water temp: 47 degrees

 

[luthersmama]

Attempted abduction of male Swarthmore student:





http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=6117371

http://www.delcotimes.com:80/WebApp....content=/DCT/News/TopStoryList_Story_1992692

Chiang is a Temple U. Dental student:

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080503_Temple_student_charged_with_kidnapping_try.html

 

[SuziQ]

Thanks luthersmama, I wonder how many cases there are over the last 11 years that could be classified as "the one that got away"?

 

[dairybest]

I don’t often have time to peck around the Internet and after reading at this site I probably won’t be doing it again for awhile (or any sound sleeping!)! I will turn what I have read over to you good people. I have to go back to work but I will check back to see what you think. Good luck!

There is this:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/underwater_forensics/2.html

and then this:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/underwater_forensics/11.html

Last but certainly not least, thank you for the warm and inviting welcome!

 

[luthersmama]

Thanks luthersmama, I wonder how many cases there are over the last 11 years that could be classified as "the one that got away"?

I'm not convinced yet that there are connections at all and I doubt that this case is part of a pattern.

HOWEVER, if Chiang IS part of a "gang" or is a wannabee, the fact that he is in custody is fantastic in the context of learning more about any such "gang".

Of course, if he was just looking to get the kid's atm card or something, he will be of no help whatsoever.

 

[SuziQ]

I'm not convinced yet that there are connections at all and I doubt that this case is part of a pattern.

ITA, it shows though that the reasoning LE uses about Big, strong, males not being possible victims of a crime is rediculous. Just a few days ago I posted a link to a list of the reasons LE used that these men were not victims of a serial killer. Being "big strong men" was on the list. IMO, this incident is a great example why men should be just a careful about their surroundings as women are taught to be. I am glad this kid got away.

ETA: it would also be interesting to find out if LE ever investigated and looked for the "one that got away" cases at all.

 

[SuziQ]

I don’t often have time to peck around the Internet and after reading at this site I probably won’t be doing it again for awhile (or any sound sleeping!)! I will turn what I have read over to you good people. I have to go back to work but I will check back to see what you think. Good luck!

There is this:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/underwater_forensics/2.html

and then this:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/underwater_forensics/11.html

Last but certainly not least, thank you for the warm and inviting welcome!

You wrongly thought you didn't have alot to contribute! I'm still reading the entire links you provided, but right off this caught my eye:

(snipped from the first link)
But then the detective deduced the answer: Smith had killed them by suddenly raising their knees into the air, which pulled their heads down and rendered them helpless to the rush of water. In fact, as the procedure was performed in front of a jury, the female participant went unconscious at once and had to be revived.

ETA: funny you should mention not sleeping soundly. Is this case keeping others up at night as well? I keep having the same dreams of making my way through dark empty cinderblock or brick hallways or rooms. passing by young men standing or leaning up against the walls. No one says anything to me, but I'm looking and looking....for something. Waiting for them to tell me something maybe.

 

[DeltaDawn]

Has anyone heard of the MTV show Buzz Kill? In the past few days I have been reading about it on the internert. I am going to bring a post over from abovetopsecret:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread351428/pg5


Thread: SERIAL KILLER TEAM DROWNING VICTIMS ACROSS THE COUNTRY

SNIP/
reply posted on 29-4-2008 @ 06:50 AM by sisyphus3

In addition to the Dahmer coincidences, there is another possible inspiration for the killer's actions.

In mid-1996, MTV inaugurated a short-lived hidden camera show called "Buzzkill" ... think of it as Candid Camera by way of the Marquis de Sade. Its logo was a smiley face with crosshairs over it.

The pilot episode included a segment called "Free Shuttle" ... and we got to see and hear the furtive conversations of two drunk coeds whose 5-minute ride back to their hotel had turned into a 2 hour odyssey in a van with people who were acting stranger and stranger.

An imitator would likely have outfitted a van with cameras and microphones, and there would be trophy videos.

Could alcohol be part of a homicidal play on words? "Buzz" "kill"?

Also, the methods of body disposal look a lot like Wayne Williams, another famous case.

Finally, gay individuals have been known to team up for sadomasochism practiced on unsuspecting victims. There was a pair that operated between Chicago and Tampa in recent years. Scott Paul Schweickert and Steven Lorenzo were the perps in that situation, and several of the victims died.
/SNIP