Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #2

[SeriouslySearching]

Question : If you suffocated someone then put them in water , would it appeared they were drowned during the autopsy?

No. You would have definite petechial hemorrhaging in the eyes which is not present in drownings.

 

[DeltaDawn]

I live near West Chester. I am confident that the burglaries are just people looking for drugs and/or money and/or stuff to sell to buy drugs. The rapes have mostly been date rapes. Not that this is a good thing, but I don't think we should expect any escalation.

The "spree" that has hit the news is really just a matter of enhanced reporting by the University of off-campus crimes against students. The other thing going on is that the locals have been complaining more and more about bad behavior of students - public urination, noise, parties etc.. I think the University is trying to point out that the students are often victims rather than perpetrators. The rate of crime is about the same as always. If the economy doesn't pick up, there will be more burglaries targeting students.

Thanks Luthersmamma, my neice attends college in West Chester, she's an arts major. I worry about her though, she's only 18 and has lived in a small town most of her life..she' a very sweet trusting individual.

 

[RR0004]

I'm no expert, but if they were already dead then they wouldn't find water in the lungs (active respiration would be necessary for that...if I'm not mistaken).

PS- I've thought the same thing. But, IMO, the "holding the legs up theory" may be a good working theory instead.

 

[DeltaDawn]

No. You would have definite petechial hemorrhaging in the eyes which is not present in drownings.

Thanks SS..I hope the docs looked for that during autopsy.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Absolutely vital info, though. I thought there was a restraining order against the dad (?). Whether there was or wasn't, the school's/church's attitude seems a bit extreme to me.

I don't find it extreme actually. I am sure his father, in a desperate attempt to find out any information, probably became quite disruptive on campus. I can see him badgering anyone and everyone with questions...stopping students, faculty, or anyone to find answers. While I understand why he was there, as I would do the same thing, maybe the way he was going about it was considered almost a threat to other students. They have a responsibility to their students and faculty to protect them, too.

 

[DeltaDawn]

Absolutely vital info, though. I thought there was a restraining order against the dad (?). Whether there was or wasn't, the school's/church's attitude seems a bit extreme to me.

There was a restraining order against his Dad, who was a Wis sheriff or something to do with LE. However he was persistent and the restraining order was lifted.

 

[RR0004]

Working under the assumption that many of these drownings weren't accidental, there's a lot of anger there on the part of the those responsible (JMO).

 

[SuziQ]

St. John's monastic community definitely has their issues.

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2006/09_10/2006_09_07_Smith_AbuseAllegations.htm

 

[RR0004]

The students of the local university, not sure if it was U of W or St. John's, or both, had posted their frustration at not having the grounds examined. I think it was his insistence on searching the Abbey that got him in a SLOT.

 

[RR0004]

Yup, Suzi!

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I'm no expert, but if they were already dead then they wouldn't find water in the lungs (active respiration would be necessary for that...if I'm not mistaken).

PS- I've thought the same thing. But, IMO, the "holding the legs up theory" may be a good working theory instead.

As much as we have gotten into this, what I have understood is that there are several "schools of thought" on this. At some point in drownings where the body remains submerged, the muscles relax and the lungs are flooded (IIRC). Drowning deaths where the people are taken out of the water soon after will show if they inhaled water or not as an indiction they were already dead.

 

[DeltaDawn]

What I found interesting from the People article was that in all 40 of the cases the detectives tie together..there was either a smiley face, or one of 12 different symbols. So each of these crimes had some sort of symbol or two left at the site, many even with gang memebers names.

Any ideas what the other 12 symbols are?

 

[RR0004]

SS-exactly...doesn't mean they didn't go in the water unconscious...and that's where I rack my brains.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

No, but I would love to know. I think the smiley was released because it is one of those universal type symbols. I would have to assume the others are more specific to a certain group.

 

[DeltaDawn]

As much as we have gotten into this, what I have understood is that there are several "schools of thought" on this. At some point in drownings where the body remains submerged, the muscles relax and the lungs are flooded (IIRC). Drowning deaths where the people are taken out of the water soon after will show if they inhaled water or not as an indiction they were already dead.

I was thinking in terms of Chris Jenkins only having a teaspoon or so of water in his lungs. Then I wondered how much water was in the other Vic's lungs? Then I wondered if that water was tested against the water in the river/pond the vics were found in to be sure that was where they drowned?

 

[DeltaDawn]

No, but I would love to know. I think the smiley was released because it is one of those universal type symbols. I would have to assume the others are more specific to a certain group.

That's what I thought too SS and I have been scouring those pics and enlarging them , but cannot make out anything else...great cropping job by the detectives.

 

[RR0004]

DD- could the "symbols" be more like a symbolic representation such as personal items left somewhere away from the body?

 

[DeltaDawn]

Something else interesting Sinsinawa Moound is where the nuns have a retreat center. Hmm...do the perps have something against religion, especially the Catholic religion? Maybe the perps were molested as children.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

SS-exactly...doesn't mean they didn't go in the water unconscious...and that's where I rack my brains.

The problem being they were submerged and left in the water for an extended period of time..making this call almost impossible in an autopsy unless I am wrong about this. Either unconscious or already dead...they would not be able to distinguish after a period of time being submerged. The COD would still have to be considered drowning if there are no other wounds or damage to organs to determine an exact cause. In other words...without a bullet...you have no crime and they have to rule it as an "accidental drowning". It is done by process of elimination much like Hypothermia.

 

[RR0004]

DD-I'd like to know as well about the water. They would have had to test the rivers, lakes, ponds, to match, wouldn't they have?