Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #2

[Ethann]

ethan...does this company use cargo vans? Also is there one particular area that is the "mother hub" for all of the training centers? Good theory!

large air conditioning companies would have cargo vans and many of the smaller companies too.Some people would have their own vehicle and get paid for using their personal transportation.A cargo van i believe,would be the preferred vehicle for anyone in the business. A large company would also tend to work on large commercial projects ,such as schools,universities,large hotels,etc

 

[Silver~Bell]

[
When looking at the supposed victims and their race and the other similarities it does not, to me and in my opinion only, fit with a white fraternity. It is just a theory

I do not have a racist agenda. If I did I would not be here I would be on those other websites and not concerned with offending anyone. I am concerned that these could be connected and I wonder how.

Indeed, I am not saying you have any racist agenda, and that's why I stressed that the posters on those other websites have a completely different agenda than those of us posting on WS...what I was getting at is that they have worked relentlessly to link the suspicious drownings with the work of minorities and have come up empty -- they are really quite good at ferreting out links but failed this time, leading me to think there is no link.

I had been thinking it was an anti-Catholic group at work, but ultimately couldn't support that suspicion.

My big gripe lately with the whole situation is thinking the "nationwide gang" angle has hurt the idea of foul play in various of the individual cases, by serving as a distraction. I do think quite a few of the drownings are linked, but aren't the work of gangs but of weird individuals or pairs...also, I think the detectives ought to "put up or shut up" to reuse a gambling phrase I posted earlier...b/c I do believe copycats are starting up.

 

[nursebeeme]

SB, I agree with you on the copycat angle. Conversely, I also think, since they seem to have the best interests of the public at heart or have attested to as much, that there is method to their madness in dribbling out a little tiny bit.

If what they say is true this is the biggest coverage and attention (congressional as well!) this has ever gotten. I, too, am skeptical. But at the same time I also think they may have a plan for what they have already released as well as what they plan to release next (sans fbi action).

As for them "hurting the idea of foul play in other cases" I think that is exactly the oposite. This attention has (many mentions in several posts in this forum) actually gotten some of these closed cases a chance for another look....even if it is just local LE asking the dicks over for a coffee and to look at what they have. (in my opinion...but I also see what you are saying)

 

[Ethann]

No insults intended to any of the theories and theorists:

"It's hard to stop a Trane."

I can't buy into the Trane training-center theory for a variety of reasons.


i would never assume that every possible death is related.Some probably are.Some are probably accidents.Maybe some done by an organized network.maybe others done by someone working alone or with a small group.There is a very heavy concentration of deaths near a trane factory,and that speaks for itself.Also you have the use of a van and more coincidences that i have not even got into.you would expect to be able to make some kind of link to them given that they are such a big company,but not like this.

 

[nursebeeme]

Ethan,
What other coincidences have you discovered?

 

[nursebeeme]

ckhagen,

Was your husband's best friend in college? Was he at a party or at a bar before the movies? And you said that pond was behind the movie theater but not near the parking lot?

 

[nursebeeme]

ck, http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64325 link to possible Florida cases. You may want to post his case there if you think it is a possible fit. The other florida case was a pond as well.

 

[ckhagen]

ckhagen,

Was your husband's best friend in college? Was he at a party or at a bar before the movies? And you said that pond was behind the movie theater but not near the parking lot?

Well, he was 26, but he had fiddled around with college long enough to have graduated with a 2 year degree a couple months before, but not a bachelors. He was at a bar, then walked to the movies (like 10 storefronts down), then was supposed to walk back to the truck. I don't know where his truck was parked, but most of the parking is to the east of the theater and the pond was behind (west) of the theater.

At the funeral, I came to the conclusion that he had two sets of friends.. two very different sets of friends. The older set of friends were like my husband, well-liked, jocks who played a lot of sports in HS and college and another set that was more into the punk type look. Night and day differences. Struck me as odd.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I found something interesting on a Sorority, Gamma Phi Chapter.

The Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. chapter at Alcorn State University in Mississippi, once referred to as "Gangster Phi" for its brutal hazing rituals, is under fire for allegedly engaging in underground hazing activities.

~snip~

The sorority was forced to suspend intake for all chapters in 2002 after Kristin High and Kenitha Saafir were drowned during alleged underground hazing activities at California State University at Los Angeles.

Grrrrrr...it won't let me get the rest of it without joining. There was a mention in the comments about some man having been kidnapped by this group of women...but it seemed they had removed the comment from the man who made it. I thought it was quite interesting.

AKA Chapter Accused of Hazing - NewsMar 28, 2007 ... The Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. chapter at Alcorn State ... Hazing accusations are very serious, and could cost these girls their ...
www.alcornchronicle.com/news/2007/03/28/News/Aka-Chapter.Accused.Of.Hazing-

Kristin High, 22, and Kenitha Saafir, 24, both drowned Sept. 9 at Dockweiler State Beach near Playa del Rey.

The lawsuit filed by the High family says the students were “blindfolded and tied by their hands and their bodies and led into the riptide conditions of the ocean.”
http://badgerherald.com/news/2002/09/25/alleged_hazing_incid.php

Since I failed to mention this earlier and Nursebeeme seems worried she could offend people (which if you did then I broke the ice for you)...the sorority I mentioned already is also an African American sorority. I felt it was important earlier today to bring it up because I have been checking out various sororities and fraternities now for awhile. The interesting note of this one is they lost their power to gain members because of the drowning of the two girls above. I find this to be an important fact. To me, it would be a perfect reason to go after and drown affluent, mostly white, young men. (Not trying to offend either...but they are called "Gangster Phi" for a reason.)

The weird thing is...I woke out of a deep sleep today to hear this case on television. I shot out of bed and rushed to the computer to find out more about it. The more I read on various sites, the more it sounded very plausible.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Welcome to WS, CKHagen! Wow! What a story! I would also like to know more about that particular case. People end up here for various reasons, CK. The same way you ended up at that Waffle House, you found this site and people to listen which keeps his story out there. Who knows what is at work to bring us to the right places at the right times sometimes?!

I would like to know if his friend had a cell phone? Was he found with his wallet? And what time of year did this take place?

 

[nursebeeme]

My RA at Kent State was AKA and also the president in 1989. Previous to that AKA had been severly sanctioned and she had a pending court date for making a pledge drink bleach and the pledge never recovered. I do not know what ever happened after that with her because I moved to a different dorm. But the story always stuck with me. How fitting. Today is May 4th...

 

[Silver~Bell]

Black sorority members drowning white college-type men in retaliation for sanctions against their chapters at colleges far far away from these clusters of drownings?

I don't find it offensive; I find it extremely unlikely.

Google the words "fraternity drownings" for many, many, many examples -- and these just the ones on the internet -- of the number of alcohol-related drownings of frat members while with their own frat brothers -- and quite a few involving cold water as well, drowning as nearby brothers slept, etc and etc.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Yes, Beltaine weekend.

 

[Silver~Bell]

Not sure how to do this yet...

~snip~

Johnson had been missing and presumed drowned since early April 4 after he and another fraternity pledge fell from a canoe in the lake.
Jackson County Sheriff Robert Burns said the deceased freshman was camping with 11 other Pike pledges and three Pike members in the Cove Hollow area on the Cedar Lake shore.
According to the Sheriff's Office, the rest of the fraternity pledges and members were asleep at the campsite and unaware that the canoe carrying Johnson and another pledge capsized.
From:
http://newshound.de.siu.edu/spring04/stories/storyReader$1340

~snip~
The night Rob Jordan died, he was so drunk he kept slumping to the muddy ground at a fraternity party on a riverbank not far from the campus of Hartwick College here.
He was 22 years old, and after the police found his body in the river three weeks later, they said he had drowned, probably after falling into the dark water in a stupor.
Fifty of his friends were at the party on May 3, frolicking in a cold rain and guzzling $800 worth of hard liquor and fruit juice that the fraternity brothers had mixed in plastic garbage pails. Some of them drank a half-gallon or more and say they cannot remember the last time they saw their friend. Most were too drunk to realize that he had wandered off alone, and they say he was probably too drunk to know where he was.
''We were having a great time,'' said Nate Donabed, a junior who is 20. ''After a while people threw caution to the wind. There were no rules.''

from:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9900E1DD1530F930A35752C1A961958260


There are so many cases of drinking, wandering, drowning, friends totally unaware, and no foul play...bodies found weeks later...etc and etc.

College-age males drink A LOT, are out at night A LOT, drown A LOT. I do think some of the "smiley" drownings are foul play, but so many accidents seem to be thrown in with the more suspicious deaths.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Black sorority members drowning white college-type men in retaliation for sanctions against their chapters at colleges far far away from these clusters of drownings?

I don't find it offensive; I find it extremely unlikely.

Google the words "fraternity drownings" for many, many, many examples -- and these just the ones on the internet -- of the number of alcohol-related drownings of frat members while with their own frat brothers -- and quite a few involving cold water as well, drowning as nearby brothers slept, etc and etc.

I have researched "fraternity drownings" for a very long time. What I found was that most drownings happened while people were around water and not while they were on campus, at a bar, or leaving a party. The sorority connection is the first I have found to be plausible enough to entertain the theory it could be hazing related tho. I think it is quite possible as sororities and frats are very well connected to one another across the country and they also share a loyal, secret bond which isn't easily broken. These factors are required for it to have gone so long under the radar.

 

[nursebeeme]

link to aka chapter finder. Um...I was going to cut and paste all of the great lakes chapters but I surely would have been kicked off for that one LOL...

There are aka chapters in every college and town where this has happened....nearby or otherwise.

https://akawebnet.aka1908.net/eweb/...-432b-af99-9f0d951f81ce&FromSearchControl=Yes

 

[nursebeeme]

SB, I cannot recall exactly where the post is I have read all of them here..... but too echo SS....the national drowning statistics for this age group concerns in the majority of cases that the deaths are in or around water like sports, the canoe story you mentioned, camping, drunken parties on the lake and going swimming, etc....not missing and separated from the group than found floating later. Shadow's website is the best at explaining the statistical data as well as deviation in these cases from the true casual element of the 'national average'.

 

[nursebeeme]

I meant 'causal' element sorry

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I keep trying to listen to those radio shows, but some reason they are messing with my computer. (It keeps trying to overheat)

I do wish they would release more information now. I did get as far as the mention of The Ultimate Evil book from wacky Reverand that called in tho. He thinks it links it back to Son of Sam...David Berkowitz.

 

[nursebeeme]

has anyone also entertained the thought that if this group exists and uses computers to help target victims, that they are able be following right along here or anywhere else this is discussed for that matter? It just is downright creepy.