Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #2

[SuziQ]

SQ- I have almost time on here today through tomorrow, but I'm almost positive , but either on this thread or in the possible vics, in reference to either Luke Holman's or Matt Kruziki case, there is an "Austin" person who they actaully charged with obstruction, very similar scenario- could there be a pattern here? One guy makes it out but doesnt remember anything?

I've done some searches and the only thing I've found is in a couple of cases there were alcohol related charges against the party hosts. Whenever you can research that would be fine. I would be interested in knowing more about Austin.

 

[SuziQ]

Started a thread for the ones who got away. Also, let's also keep Alcohol-induced blackouts in mind. Short term memory is a tenuous thing when drugs of any kind are invovled.

Thank you for starting that thread. Very interesting link you provided. Unfortunately for me, I remember every stupid thing I've ever said or done while drunk. So I can't relate at all. Now I have to wonder what affect black-outs have on the difference between forgetting where you put away that debit card during the night vs falling in a river.

 

[shadowraiths]

Thank you for starting that thread. Very interesting link you provided. Unfortunately for me, I remember every stupid thing I've ever said or done while drunk. So I can't relate at all. Now I have to wonder what affect black-outs have on the difference between forgetting where you put away that debit card during the night vs falling in a river.

Performing complex tasks, as well as engaging in behaviors one would not generally engage, while being completely amnestic of such, is a well-known hallmark of acute alcohol poisoning. Alcohol interferes with short term memory, hence, events are never committed to long term memory to recall later. In fact, alcohol is not only significantly correlated to short term memory loss but, over time and through extended use, gross memory impairments (i.e., Korsakoff's Syndrome). This memory interference does not necessarily result in an interference of executive functioning however. In other words, not everyone gets "falling down" drunk. We see this in the death tolls on our city streets and highways all across the country.

There is also the other part of this equation. For example, someone who usually would not, say dance naked on a bar room table, have sex with a stranger, commit suicide or homicide, or even jump into a body of freezing water, may very well do so while under the influence of alcohol. This is also a well-known and researched phenomenon, and is referred to as the disinhibition effect. And these (alcohol-induced blackouts & the disinhibition effect), together, are dangerous ingredients, whose outcome can be disastrous.

Edwin Jellinek's identified much of the above in his considered ground-breaking research of alcohol abuse in the 1930s. The research was eventually published in book form in 1942. And the criteria he outlined remains as diagnostic criteria in the DSMs. The primary problem with his resulting theory was the proposition that people forget what they did. The fact is, the memory was never committed to short term memory and therefore could not be moved to long term memory. Hence, there is nothing there for them to remember or forget in the first place.

 

[shadowraiths]

Something else occurred to me, that I've been meaning to mention, Sudden drowning syndrome or what is now known as cold-shock response (which also has a long history and has been well researched). Being a good swimmer does not protect one from drowning if they fall (or jump) into a body of cold water. Though most research focuses upon water-related sports and/or work, the phenomenon, itself describes what occurs when someone suddenly finds themselves immersed in body of cold water.

As soon as you hit the cold water, you gasp for breath and there is a sudden increase in your breathing rate, heart rate, blood pressure and a dramatic decrease in your ability to hold your breath.

If your head is underwater when cold-shock response kicks in, you could take in water and drown. The Coast Guard calls this sudden drowning syndrome, says Rear Adm. Dr. Alan M. Steinman, former director of Health and Safety for the Coast Guard, who wrote about cold-shock response in the Feb. 11 issue of the New Bedford (Mass.) Standard-Times.

[...]

After the cold-shock reflexes have subsided, a fisherman has other things to worry about. It becomes rapidly harder to swim as your hands, arms and legs become colder. And because cold water is more viscous, Steinman says, a person has to work harder than normal to stay afloat and keep his head out of the water.

Full article: click here

 

[Armchairsleuth]

Something else occurred to me, that I've been meaning to mention, Sudden drowning syndrome or what is now known as cold-shock response (which also has a long history and has been well researched). Being a good swimmer does not protect one from drowning if they fall (or jump) into a body of cold water. Though most research focuses upon water-related sports and/or work, the phenomenon, itself describes what occurs when someone suddenly finds themselves immersed in body of cold water.


Full article: click here

Hello Shadowraiths....Let me say that I'm very impressed with and enjoy reading your postings.

However, If that were the case that they fell or jumped into the water, how would that explain the fact that several victims were found with their arms folded across their chest. If I'm in cold water, trust me, my arms are going to be everywhere trying to get out. I think that is the natural thing that happens. At least I know it would be for me.

 

[RR0004]

In the case of the Ithaca College student, was it even possible to jump into that pond? From the descriptions I've read, it was fairly shallow. The fact that he was found in the middle of the pond even stranger. I haven't read of any bridge that transversed it. It may explain some of the incidents though. I know of a young person who dove into a pool in Colorado and basically died. Granted the pool was no doubt heated, but the change in temperature may have shocked his system. There was no COD. Point being...drastic temperature change can shock the system. I question, though, if a person were into jumping in to a river for "fun" as opposed to a suicide attempt, my feeling iwould be that it's part of a rebel-rousing activity with a bunch of friends; not alone.

 

[Ethann]

this is my theory.they get stuck with a needle-knocked out-it is not enough to be detected with tests ,but does the job until they get them in the back of their vehicle.they then keep them sedated with refrigerant-r22,while they sit in the front with the windows cracked open.since they are an air conditioner technician they travel to Wisconsin,White Bear Lake,Colubus ohio,Evansville indiana ,and Clarksville tennessee,for classes at the Trane factories ,where they get specialized training for Trane products.Since they work for a major contractor,they would also be working in some of the other cities as well.They then move to albany and are sent to middlebury ,where Trane of Albany has a contract.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I found something interesting on a Sorority, Gamma Phi Chapter.

The Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. chapter at Alcorn State University in Mississippi, once referred to as "Gangster Phi" for its brutal hazing rituals, is under fire for allegedly engaging in underground hazing activities.

~snip~

The sorority was forced to suspend intake for all chapters in 2002 after Kristin High and Kenitha Saafir were drowned during alleged underground hazing activities at California State University at Los Angeles.

Grrrrrr...it won't let me get the rest of it without joining. There was a mention in the comments about some man having been kidnapped by this group of women...but it seemed they had removed the comment from the man who made it. I thought it was quite interesting.

AKA Chapter Accused of Hazing - NewsMar 28, 2007 ... The Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. chapter at Alcorn State ... Hazing accusations are very serious, and could cost these girls their ...
www.alcornchronicle.com/news/2007/03/28/News/Aka-Chapter.Accused.Of.Hazing-

Kristin High, 22, and Kenitha Saafir, 24, both drowned Sept. 9 at Dockweiler State Beach near Playa del Rey.

The lawsuit filed by the High family says the students were “blindfolded and tied by their hands and their bodies and led into the riptide conditions of the ocean.”
http://badgerherald.com/news/2002/09/25/alleged_hazing_incid.php

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Welcome to WS, Ethann! That is quite an intriguing theory, but what reason do they have for killing the male students? What motive would an AC man have to pick on athletic college males? I guess I don't get a connection.

What is r-22? What does it do to you?

 

[Ethann]

There is a Trane connection.That is the connection.Columbus-Clarksville-LaCrosse-Evansville-white bear Lake.I am just letting the facts speak for themselves.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I would have to agee with you, Arm. Even the detectives felt the way Chris' arms were laying out in front was highly unusual for a drowning victim. I would have to say in those cases...someone had to position them post-mortem. (Providing they were not bound in that position when they died.)

While they haven't found any ligature markings that we know of...it doesn't mean they may not have been bound and blindfolded. I thought about that when I read the article above. If Chris had been trying to remove a blindfold...it could be another reason his hair was in his hands.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

There is a Trane connection.That is the connection.Columbus-Clarksville-LaCrosse-Evansville-white bear Lake.I am just letting the facts speak for themselves.

Interesting. So what does this r-22 do to a person?

 

[Ethann]

R-22 can be used almost like a knockout gas
wouldn't be too hard for someone who knows a little about HVAC to use that. Has almost a nitrious oxide effect, people do get high on it. Cargo van....victims half hammered.... roll your window down a little, the other window doesn't work, open the valve and sleepy time drunken stupor land for a short while. I doubt there would be a whole lot of traces of it either.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Hmmmm...good point. No one would be looking for it certainly.

So when these people go for training, do they stay in hotels, rent apartments, or what? Do they use their own vehicles to go to training?

 

[Ethann]

Hmmmm...good point. No one would be looking for it certainly.

So when these people go for training, do they stay in hotels, rent apartments, or what? Do they use their own vehicles to go to training?

That would depend on who they are working for.some of them would be using a company vehicle,some would not.some might have their own transportation and get reimbursed for travel.they would probably be staying in a motel.

 

[hockeymom]

That would depend on who they are working for.some of them would be using a company vehicle,some would not.some might have their own transportation and get reimbursed for travel.they would probably be staying in a motel.

Thats pretty good connecting the dots. How did you even come up with the Trane thing?
I'm with you on some sort of gas or something that makes the victims pass out,but wouldn't show in an autopsy.

 

[shadowraiths]

While I remain unconvinced wrt the gang bit, here's an interesting read about what is considered to be among the most dangerous (and growing) gangs, and what makes them so dangerous:

The middle-aged man had fled Cambodia to save his family from the genocidal Khmer Rouge. Now, as he stalked furiously back and forth across the grimy patio behind a cramped bungalow in the Little Phnom Penh section of Long Beach, he saw a very different threat materializing -- within his own family. His 14-year-old son, gang-named Flipper, and another homeboy, Slicc, 18, were bragging to a stranger about a shoot-out.

[...]

Many Cambodian gang members became hardened to violence during their escape from the killing fields of Southeast Asia. "I remember walking and walking," recalls Little Devil, 16, describing his family's trek out of Cambodia when he was five. "If we didn't keep up, we'd be lost." Perhaps because of their past globe trotting, Cambodian gang members can be astonishingly mobile. When Long Beach cops saturated the "Anaheim corridor" this summer after a burst of shoot-outs, the Cambodian gangs vanished. "They took off for Stockton and Modesto -- maybe farther," says Mike Nen, an ethnic-Cambodian cop. Adds gang detective Sorenson: "The Hispanics sit on the corner and stare at you. The Asians might fly to Chicago."

Full article: click here

 

[Ethann]

I live in clarksville tennessee.We have a Trane plant here and because there were so many vicitms in lacrosse i was able to make the connection.If a technician was doing it and he worked for a Trane contractor ,he would probably take classes in Lacrosse .

 

[shadowraiths]

However, If that were the case that they fell or jumped into the water, how would that explain the fact that several victims were found with their arms folded across their chest.

I've only heard of that occurring in a single case (Chris Jenkins) but anyway... I am not disputing that some of the drownings may be murders in disguise. The three drownings within days and proximity of each other (Jenkins, Noll, & Guimond), along with the fact that not only was Jenkins case quite obviously involved foul play, but also that his scent was picked up in the St. John's campus at Collegeville. Add to that, Joshua Guimond, who was a St. John's student, was last seen leaving his dorm, not a party. And then there's Michael Noll. His case, however is quite different, in that he was last seen trying to enter an elderly woman's house, and he was reportedly, quite drunk. That alone, indicates that his death was very likely an accident. But anyway...

My comment wrt the alcohol-induced blackout bit is simply a cautionary not to assume that a tale of such means someone had been abducted. Imho, Nick Thompson's situation is a perfect example (i.e., they have video footage of him getting into his truck, alone).

 

[Ethann]

Welcome to WS, Ethann! That is quite an intriguing theory, but what reason do they have for killing the male students? What motive would an AC man have to pick on athletic college males? I guess I don't get a connection.

What is r-22? What does it do to you?

Thanks for the welcome

i also find it odd that 2 of the deaths were near the trane plant in St Paul-White Bear lake.I counted 11 victims in cities that do specialized training for employees of Trane contractors.there could be more.