Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #2
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nursebeeme
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This is my first post here....after four years of reading and trying to join and getting, "your email address is banned" I FINALLY contacted Admin and found out that happens with ALL yahoo address! I know many of you from steve Huff's site www.truecrimeweblog.com. So hi to all friends old and new. I am so glad to finally be able to participate in this conversation. I have read every single post and link and done a little researching of my own. I also have a fraternity theory but it is a little racially sensitive. I will let you all tell me if it is okay to post (it is not disgusting or rude or anything). It especially makes sense after you listen to the friday night after dark radio show updating this case (I have not seen anyone link it yet). It has three parts. Make sure to listen to all three. It is an interview with Kristy Piel (sorry if I slaughtered her name). Some highlights from the show were (per Kristy as per the detectives) that all of the linked cases the vics were at least 90% white, same build, height, weight, gpa, and athleticism. The dicks may also reveal the reason behind the concentration in La Crosse in the near future. The Dicks have only released ten per cent of their total case findings to the general public. Kristy also states that the dicks have so much info on these cases that they can predict how many kids will go missing each month IN THE PRESENT AND THE FUTURE. She may be refering to the two new york cases and the shocking news of Nick Garza (refer back to that previous post) possibly being found underwater but his possible body having moved in the current and the water too treacherous to attempt an out and out dive. The three part update on adrs can be found here: http://video.aol.com/video-detail/smiley-face-serial-killers-update-a1/3480240596?icid=acvsv3
nursebeeme
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More more point I failed to make about the after dark radio show update was the fact that they can predict the numbers per month as over time the numbers each month have followed a pattern....... could we perhaps get a number pattern going? For example....may 97 this many possible cases, may 98, may 99, etc? I wonder if the numbers are higher around october, november, december? It fits with my theory if this is the case as there would be more pledges rushing the frat at this time. Once again, I will share my theory if it is okay with you all. I don't want to get kicked off after it taking four years for me to figure out how to get on here LOL :slap:
SeriouslySearching
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Welcome to WS, Nursebeeme!! Finally, I guess I should say! I will go listen to those right now and thanks for posting them. It is fascinating that only ten percent of what they uncovered has been released.
I will go listen to those right now and thanks for posting them. It is fascinating that only ten percent of what they uncovered has been released.nursebeeme
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Thank you SS, for the welcome. Also, please let me know if you want me to post my theory. I have it all ready to go. I, too, found that three part interview, along with Chris Jenkins' sister's interview the most informative of all in the entire case so far.
I am not all the way on the gang side of the theory but the longer it goes on and the more facts are available, the more I am convinced. If it turns out to be a lone, traveling serial killer I will personally eat my nurse hat LOL.
I am not all the way on the gang side of the theory but the longer it goes on and the more facts are available, the more I am convinced. If it turns out to be a lone, traveling serial killer I will personally eat my nurse hat LOL.
SeriouslySearching
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Go right ahead and post your theory! Most of us here have been working on theories and have been posting away. I am having a technical difficulty at the moment, but should be back in a bit.
Thanks for the information, Ethann. I think that is really interesting and you never know what is going to really shed light onto all of this. I would never have thought about using such a gas like that.
I am having a technical difficulty at the moment, but should be back in a bit. Thanks for the information, Ethann. I think that is really interesting and you never know what is going to really shed light onto all of this. I would never have thought about using such a gas like that.
nursebeeme
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Okay...here goes...and this is just a theory mind you and means no offence to any person of any color, creed, nationality, etc. I had saved my research in an email doc so bear with me.
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After reading more of the Chris Jenkins docs last night involving the african american men that a witness described I went to sleep. I woke up this morning and it was still really bothering me. Please wrap your head tightly but at least entertain my thoughts:
If this murder network does exist and is organized, secretive, intelligent, networked and targeting college males could this be somehow linked to african american frats or sororities? At Kent, where I went to college, they were a big presence and a lot of reverse racism existed on campus. They were very, very secretive. http://www.straightblack.com/culture/African-American-Fraternities-Sororities/index.html
Could this be hazing in a murderous form???????? It would be easy to target college students if you are a student on the same campus and in the greek system (I was a pledge and know how small and subcultural the system is.)
With all the anti hazing laws and the like hazing has been driven deeply underground. Alcohol, paddling, and drinking bleach (that one happened at kent state in a black sorority while I was a student there) cannot happen as any bodily harm to pledges that comes to light will be discovered..... However, who is to say what underground hazing practices are in operation today??? http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE0D8103BF934A15752C0A965958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all The vice president of delta sigma theta in the previous article was my RA my freshmen year and went to trial.
Could murder be the new hazing in the african american greek system? Young, white, athletic, intelligent young men are targeted. Why? Hate? Jealousy? Revenge? Did you know that the KKK used to wear a smiley on their white robes? Could it be a signiture like some sick kind of justice? ~snip~ In Blazing Saddles, when Hedley Lamar is enlisting his criminal army, the KKK members wear smiley faces and have a nice day on the back of their sheets. ~snip~ per wikipedia on smiley.
In your blog you also talked about the internet and computers and how in 97 this could have been possible but limited due to newness of the internet. I agree. However, what kind of people HAD computers in 97 or even knew how to use them and use them well? They were expensive and it was new technology. Not every home had a computer but EVERY COLLEGE DID and college students used them and networked with them I am sure more often then your average Joe impressed with online banking that was just becoming big. I think some digging on the electronic highways could net some info if this were to be the case.
If not via the computer.....fraternities and sororities are nationally and internationally linked. You have national presidents and regional presidents and chapter presidents that keep in constant contact, seminars, meetings, etc.
http://jscms.jrn.columbia.edu/cns/2007-03-27/battle-branding the afore link is on african american fraternity branding. It has roots in the branding of slaves and once again, this fixation with slavery days is perplexing and could suggest that these members are still deeply resentful of whites. Of course it is not sanctioned (tongue in cheek) by any black frats or sorty. but at Kent that was how you could always tell frat members. It is also considered a form of HAZING.
This picture is of a latino fraternity
College boys with brands - WARNING - partial nudity
Either way, thanks for hearing me out.
the urban dictionary states that the definition of BUZZKILL issomething that spoils or ruins an otherwise enjoyable event; especially when in relation to a drunk or drug induced high
******************************
After reading more of the Chris Jenkins docs last night involving the african american men that a witness described I went to sleep. I woke up this morning and it was still really bothering me. Please wrap your head tightly but at least entertain my thoughts:
If this murder network does exist and is organized, secretive, intelligent, networked and targeting college males could this be somehow linked to african american frats or sororities? At Kent, where I went to college, they were a big presence and a lot of reverse racism existed on campus. They were very, very secretive. http://www.straightblack.com/culture/African-American-Fraternities-Sororities/index.html
Could this be hazing in a murderous form???????? It would be easy to target college students if you are a student on the same campus and in the greek system (I was a pledge and know how small and subcultural the system is.)
With all the anti hazing laws and the like hazing has been driven deeply underground. Alcohol, paddling, and drinking bleach (that one happened at kent state in a black sorority while I was a student there) cannot happen as any bodily harm to pledges that comes to light will be discovered..... However, who is to say what underground hazing practices are in operation today??? http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE0D8103BF934A15752C0A965958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all The vice president of delta sigma theta in the previous article was my RA my freshmen year and went to trial.
Could murder be the new hazing in the african american greek system? Young, white, athletic, intelligent young men are targeted. Why? Hate? Jealousy? Revenge? Did you know that the KKK used to wear a smiley on their white robes? Could it be a signiture like some sick kind of justice? ~snip~ In Blazing Saddles, when Hedley Lamar is enlisting his criminal army, the KKK members wear smiley faces and have a nice day on the back of their sheets. ~snip~ per wikipedia on smiley.
In your blog you also talked about the internet and computers and how in 97 this could have been possible but limited due to newness of the internet. I agree. However, what kind of people HAD computers in 97 or even knew how to use them and use them well? They were expensive and it was new technology. Not every home had a computer but EVERY COLLEGE DID and college students used them and networked with them I am sure more often then your average Joe impressed with online banking that was just becoming big. I think some digging on the electronic highways could net some info if this were to be the case.
If not via the computer.....fraternities and sororities are nationally and internationally linked. You have national presidents and regional presidents and chapter presidents that keep in constant contact, seminars, meetings, etc.
http://jscms.jrn.columbia.edu/cns/2007-03-27/battle-branding the afore link is on african american fraternity branding. It has roots in the branding of slaves and once again, this fixation with slavery days is perplexing and could suggest that these members are still deeply resentful of whites. Of course it is not sanctioned (tongue in cheek) by any black frats or sorty. but at Kent that was how you could always tell frat members. It is also considered a form of HAZING.
This picture is of a latino fraternity
College boys with brands - WARNING - partial nudity
Either way, thanks for hearing me out.
the urban dictionary states that the definition of BUZZKILL issomething that spoils or ruins an otherwise enjoyable event; especially when in relation to a drunk or drug induced high
DeltaDawn
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Welcome to WS Nurse and Ethan.
Interesting theories Ethan as far as the geographic area that this covers being tied into Trane air conditioning and heat pumps.
Nurse, also interesting about the theory of fraternities using this as a hazing activity or a frat activity to further their own agenda. The question is were any of the vics frat members and if so what frat? I know some were not in college and at least 1 I recall, Josh Snell, had already graduated.
Which I guess goes back to their ability to stalk their victims. The detectives and Kristi have said these people were not randomly picked. Kristi mentioned the INTERNET and any articles even that could have been available on line that might give their name, etc, and possibly about a sporting event or something academic.
I think that statistically the professor has studied this to the point of being able to give a location and time that the next vic will take place. So timing is everything in this case.
I am leaning more toward a different theory, but still very similar to your frat theory. Great work Nurse and thank you for your posts and the link. I had listened to the Coast to Coast interview with Kristi the previous weekend. I am glad you posted the new interview.
Interesting theories Ethan as far as the geographic area that this covers being tied into Trane air conditioning and heat pumps.
Nurse, also interesting about the theory of fraternities using this as a hazing activity or a frat activity to further their own agenda. The question is were any of the vics frat members and if so what frat? I know some were not in college and at least 1 I recall, Josh Snell, had already graduated.
Which I guess goes back to their ability to stalk their victims. The detectives and Kristi have said these people were not randomly picked. Kristi mentioned the INTERNET and any articles even that could have been available on line that might give their name, etc, and possibly about a sporting event or something academic.
I think that statistically the professor has studied this to the point of being able to give a location and time that the next vic will take place. So timing is everything in this case.
I am leaning more toward a different theory, but still very similar to your frat theory. Great work Nurse and thank you for your posts and the link. I had listened to the Coast to Coast interview with Kristi the previous weekend. I am glad you posted the new interview.
Thanks. i probably should not count Hinkley ,but in the immediate area,i would say14.that is what is looks like.I have not calculated the mileage yet.I suspect the 14 disappearances are less then 15 miles away from a Trane facility.
nursebeeme
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Just another point/thought: (bold are things that dicks leaked) If this cross country group of small pods exists and is targeting 90% white, similar build, smart, athletic, college men what kind of group could have this kind of motive? If this group has a heirarchy then who is the leader? Why are there no african american victims? Why white men? There has been, assumingly, the occasional chinese or Japanese victim. Why? Could it have been not the intended target when something fell through. Could this also account for a few of the non~college military or out of town visitors? That either the intended vic did not show in the bar, and another was taken that loosly fit the mold (these other vics that were not college students were drinking in places where college students hung out).
Just food for thought
Just food for thought
nursebeeme
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ethan...does this company use cargo vans? Also is there one particular area that is the "mother hub" for all of the training centers? Good theory!
nursebeeme
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oh...and thanks DD and SS for the sweet words and the welcome.
Silver~Bell
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No insults intended to any of the theories and theorists:
"It's hard to stop a Trane."
I can't buy into the Trane training-center theory for a variety of reasons.
One, with the length of time of these mysterious drownings spanning a decade, it would imply that a great many Trane people would be involved in criminal behavior, year after year.
In fact, it would have to be formal in nature, with a hierarchy of Trane people "passing on" the secret and recruiting other Trane employees/trainees. Some of the facilities train managers, some train technicians, some installers, etc.
If the drownings were the work of one or two Trane employees, they would be SO unlikely to be moving from center to center to center either as trainers or trainees, that quickly, that often, year after year.
The Black/ethnic fraternity theory:
There are a variety of websites similar to WS, but with a completely different agenda: Their forum members work relentlessly to link crimes and deviant behavior to ethnic, sexual, and religious groups they despise. And they have come up with...nothing...
In terms of violent, crude, deviant, peculiar, and cruel behavior, complete with hidden hazing perversions that come to light when someone dies, is injured, or "tells," I think quite a few white fraternity members could match and surpass any of the "black" or Latino frats.
The Detectives
As to the detectives and their "only 10% has been told," I have to very much wonder about their credibility now. They held their news conferences, presented their 10% to the public, supposedly presented all of their findings to the FBI (neglecting to mention the smileys?) and the involved local LE -- and were rebuffed by the FBI in no uncertain terms.
They say that after 11 years, they are out of resources -- they tried the FBI -- okay, detectives, now cough up the other 90%, please, thank you.
Just my 2 Euro's worth...
"It's hard to stop a Trane."
I can't buy into the Trane training-center theory for a variety of reasons.
One, with the length of time of these mysterious drownings spanning a decade, it would imply that a great many Trane people would be involved in criminal behavior, year after year.
In fact, it would have to be formal in nature, with a hierarchy of Trane people "passing on" the secret and recruiting other Trane employees/trainees. Some of the facilities train managers, some train technicians, some installers, etc.
If the drownings were the work of one or two Trane employees, they would be SO unlikely to be moving from center to center to center either as trainers or trainees, that quickly, that often, year after year.
The Black/ethnic fraternity theory:
There are a variety of websites similar to WS, but with a completely different agenda: Their forum members work relentlessly to link crimes and deviant behavior to ethnic, sexual, and religious groups they despise. And they have come up with...nothing...
In terms of violent, crude, deviant, peculiar, and cruel behavior, complete with hidden hazing perversions that come to light when someone dies, is injured, or "tells," I think quite a few white fraternity members could match and surpass any of the "black" or Latino frats.
The Detectives
As to the detectives and their "only 10% has been told," I have to very much wonder about their credibility now. They held their news conferences, presented their 10% to the public, supposedly presented all of their findings to the FBI (neglecting to mention the smileys?) and the involved local LE -- and were rebuffed by the FBI in no uncertain terms.
They say that after 11 years, they are out of resources -- they tried the FBI -- okay, detectives, now cough up the other 90%, please, thank you.
Just my 2 Euro's worth...
Ok, I'm going to chime in now too
Like Nurse, I've been reading these forums for over 4 years and tried registering several times to no avail. I think I've read almost every post here for at least 3 years, lol!
Anyhow... Like many of you, I've been highly suspect of the number of accidental drownings happening in such clustered areas. You don't see guys walking off into rivers in these kinds of numbers in other areas. It's very clustered IMO.
Also, something that keeps me interested in this case is a similar situation that happened to one of my husbands best friends from high school.
http://community.emeraldcoast.com/articles/secott_10851___article.html/body_pond.html
http://ssecott01.blogspot.com
http://nhsclass98.tripod.com/secott_shaun.html
The death of his friend really shocked us because he could swim... very, very well. He dreamed of being a Navy SEAL when he was in highschool and would practice holding his breath under water and could hold it for some 5+ minutes.
Now, of course, he was apparently drunk when this occurred, but I was never able to find out what the tox reports said.
The story (or what I know of it) was that he was at a bar (a very popular, busy little hotspot in town) with friends. They walked over to the theater, which is in the same shopping complex and from what I've heard, he was buzzed and decided it probably wasn't best for him to see the movie. His friends bought tickets and went in anyway and that's the last they saw of him. He told them he was going to sleep in the truck (they rode together IIRC). When his friends got out of the movie, they supposedly figured he must have walked home (um, yeah right! that was a completely stupid assumption IMO). Two days later, they found his body in the pond behind the movie theater, which I don't understand because there's little to no parking back there. I just wish I knew what the tox reports said, but I don't exactly want to call his parents and ask since I really don't know then well at all.
Really, he was probably drunk and passed out and fell into the pond, end of story. But... I've always had this nagging bit of me that says it's just really unbelievable and there must be more to the story.
Strangest part is... that night, I really had a craving for Waffle House of all places, which I never eat. I waited until my DH got off of work at almost midnight and being the irresponsible parent that I am (j/k!), I actually dragged my two toddlers to Waffle House with me at that hour, with DH. The one 10 miles from my house smells bad, so I drove the extra 4ish miles to the one directly across the street from the pond where he drowned, at roughly that same hour, by our estimates. Haunts me to this day. It was probably one of the strangest things I've ever done in my life and he died right there in eyeshot of us (it was dark though), likely while we ate.
Anyhow, that's one of the many things that brings me here, likely not related to this case, but similar in nature.
Like Nurse, I've been reading these forums for over 4 years and tried registering several times to no avail. I think I've read almost every post here for at least 3 years, lol!
Anyhow... Like many of you, I've been highly suspect of the number of accidental drownings happening in such clustered areas. You don't see guys walking off into rivers in these kinds of numbers in other areas. It's very clustered IMO.
Also, something that keeps me interested in this case is a similar situation that happened to one of my husbands best friends from high school.
http://community.emeraldcoast.com/articles/secott_10851___article.html/body_pond.html
http://ssecott01.blogspot.com
http://nhsclass98.tripod.com/secott_shaun.html
The death of his friend really shocked us because he could swim... very, very well. He dreamed of being a Navy SEAL when he was in highschool and would practice holding his breath under water and could hold it for some 5+ minutes.
Now, of course, he was apparently drunk when this occurred, but I was never able to find out what the tox reports said.
The story (or what I know of it) was that he was at a bar (a very popular, busy little hotspot in town) with friends. They walked over to the theater, which is in the same shopping complex and from what I've heard, he was buzzed and decided it probably wasn't best for him to see the movie. His friends bought tickets and went in anyway and that's the last they saw of him. He told them he was going to sleep in the truck (they rode together IIRC). When his friends got out of the movie, they supposedly figured he must have walked home (um, yeah right! that was a completely stupid assumption IMO). Two days later, they found his body in the pond behind the movie theater, which I don't understand because there's little to no parking back there. I just wish I knew what the tox reports said, but I don't exactly want to call his parents and ask since I really don't know then well at all.
Really, he was probably drunk and passed out and fell into the pond, end of story. But... I've always had this nagging bit of me that says it's just really unbelievable and there must be more to the story.
Strangest part is... that night, I really had a craving for Waffle House of all places, which I never eat. I waited until my DH got off of work at almost midnight and being the irresponsible parent that I am (j/k!), I actually dragged my two toddlers to Waffle House with me at that hour, with DH. The one 10 miles from my house smells bad, so I drove the extra 4ish miles to the one directly across the street from the pond where he drowned, at roughly that same hour, by our estimates. Haunts me to this day. It was probably one of the strangest things I've ever done in my life and he died right there in eyeshot of us (it was dark though), likely while we ate.
Anyhow, that's one of the many things that brings me here, likely not related to this case, but similar in nature.
Silver~Bell
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One more remark, to follow up on a previous poster's remarks about cold-water drowning: If you have ever fallen into or even voluntarily entered cold water, you will find it can render even a strong swimmer incapable of response. Very, very quickly the survival thrashing can be stopped, or prevented in the first place, even in shallow water.
nursebeeme
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nursebeeme
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TOO FUNNY CKHAGEN!
Silverbell, Yes, I agree with the coldwater drowning. Add alcohol to the mix and you are decreasing your chancing of getting out the the water alive. Case by case, though, HOW did these kids end up IN the cold water when there, in several cases, was a good bit of rocks and edging before the water even started? How did they just "fall" in? It does not make sense. Nick Garza's body may have just been found IN WATER. Two similar cases LAST WEEK and the two men were found again...in the water.
Silverbell, Yes, I agree with the coldwater drowning. Add alcohol to the mix and you are decreasing your chancing of getting out the the water alive. Case by case, though, HOW did these kids end up IN the cold water when there, in several cases, was a good bit of rocks and edging before the water even started? How did they just "fall" in? It does not make sense. Nick Garza's body may have just been found IN WATER. Two similar cases LAST WEEK and the two men were found again...in the water.
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