Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #2

[SuziQ]

LMAO WTH is DSM-IV TR.?

I think it's those scary diagnostic codes that Docs use on their bills so you can't figure out what you are being billed for. :waitasec:

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I think it's those scary diagnostic codes that Docs use on their bills so you can't figure out what you are being billed for. :waitasec:

Hahahahahaha~ It could be my brain isn't functioning in the proper mode, but I took one look at that and said...WTH?

I might add...I truly have serious respect for Shadow. I know that Shadow knows technology and I am even more impressed to learn about that thesis. I would love to read it someday.

 

[shadowraiths]

LMAO WTH is DSM-IV TR.?

The American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision.

Paraphillias is an Axis I disorder. Paedophillia, for example, falls under the Paraphillia class. Whether Lilly is a fetishist, sexual sadist, or both, can only be determined by an evaluating psych. Here's the short def of a sexual sadist, btw.

http://allpsych.com/disorders/paraphilias/sadism.html

Sexually sadistic behaviors are typically evident by early adulthood, and often start with masochistic or sadistic play in childhood. The disorder is characterized by either intense sexually arousing fantasies, urges, or behaviors in which the individual is sexually aroused by causing humiliation or physical suffering of another person.

If he is a sexual sadist who has developed, as part of his fantasy, a serial killer role, then the odds are pretty high that he's not only acted on his fantasy, but done so on multiple occasions.

With this in mind, consider, if you will, the high speed chase on April 22, 2003, wherein he even rammed a police car. They were serving a warrant based upon his harassment of Paul/Marchbanks (the Funeral Home owners). Imho, not necessarily something worth running from the police over, and esp not extreme enough to compel a person to ram a cop car. However, if you consider the time frame during which they were attempting to serve the warrant...

Two bodies had been recovered (one, only 12 days before): Christopher Jenkins (February 27, 2003) and Jeremy Stienkeoway (April 10, 2003)

I'm just sayin...

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Thank you, Shadow! (No..never would have related those initials to that and glad I didn't try!)

The incident you brought up is exactly why I don't think he is tied to the murders. He isn't calculating in his behaviors. I think the person or people involved are not only calculating, but very tied to being under the radar. You won't find any of them on police blotters, but you will find them in GPAs.

 

[shadowraiths]

Hahahahahaha~ It could be my brain isn't functioning in the proper mode, but I took one look at that and said...WTH?

LOLOL. Well, I didn't want to traumatize you too much. So I figured I'd start you out with the APA "bible" as opposed to some of the more gritty research in that area. ^_~

As for the thesis? I'm thinking about submitting it to SSRN (aka Social Science Research Network). If I do, and it gets published, I'll give you a heads up.

 

[Cirrus]

According to the Ithaca Police Department, preliminary autopsy results indicate that Ithaca College freshman William Jacobson's death was due to an accidental drowning. While the full autopsy report is not yet complete, police have ruled out foul play as the cause of death.

Sigh. I hope they're right.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

LOLOL. Well, I didn't want to traumatize you too much. So I figured I'd start you out with the APA "bible" as opposed to some of the more gritty research in that area. ^_~

As for the thesis? I'm thinking about submitting it to SSRN (aka Social Science Research Network). If I do, and it gets published, I'll give you a heads up.

Strange enough, I would actually love that! Thanks for not traumatizing me! I try to avoid that when I can. LMAO Understand our differences have nothing to do with personal affections or intellect. :blowkiss: I just go with my gut feelings a lot.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Sigh. I hope they're right.

What does your gut feeling say? Accident? Could very well be. However, it would be great if they connect the dots for the family. I will be satisfied it was a horrid accident when they do. A viable theory has to come into play tho.

 

[dark_shadows]

A woman is being used to lure the men.

 

[SuziQ]

With this in mind, consider, if you will, the high speed chase on April 22, 2003, wherein he even rammed a police car. They were serving a warrant based upon his harassment of Paul/Marchbanks (the Funeral Home owners). Imho, not necessarily something worth running from the police over, and esp not extreme enough to compel a person to ram a cop car. However, if you consider the time frame during which they were attempting to serve the warrant...

Two bodies had been recovered (one, only 12 days before): Christopher Jenkins (February 27, 2003) and Jeremy Stienkeoway (April 10, 2003)

I'm just sayin...

Sounds like he thought the warrant was for something else. And IMO, I think because he worked at a funeral home we can add "necrophelia" to the list. Just sayin....

 

[shadowraiths]

The incident you brought up is exactly why I don't think he is tied to the murders. He isn't calculating in his behaviors. I think the person or people involved are not only calculating, but very tied to being under the radar. You won't find any of them on police blotters, but you will find them in GPAs.

But...but...but...you don't need someone who is all that calculating. Or that bright, for that matter. If you haven't already, I urge you to check out the book, Serial Murders & their Victims, by Dr. Eric Hickey. He covers everything from the McDonald Triad (bedwetting, fire starting, torturing small animals) to victimization demographics, and then some. Def worth a read, imho.

 

[SuziQ]

If Lilly is involved I don't know if he needed to be smart to get away with what he did for so long. It's more likely because LE was stupid. He'd been telling LE for over ten years he was a serial killer and they didn't wise up until (2003?). IMO, I don't think whoever is responsible is necessarily bright, but rather LE missed the boat. The behavior of LE in case after case linked here is a good example of how this killer(s) got away with their crime for so long.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

But...but...but...you don't need someone who is all that calculating. Or that bright, for that matter. If you haven't already, I urge you to check out the book, Serial Murders & their Victims, by Dr. Eric Hickey. He covers everything from the McDonald Triad (bedwetting, fire starting, torturing small animals) to victimization demographics, and then some. Def worth a read, imho.

Woah! You got me on that one!! (Gut feeling is still he is not involved...but)

 

[SeriouslySearching]

If Lilly is involved I don't know if he needed to be smart to get away with what he did for so long. It's more likely because LE was stupid. He'd been telling LE for over ten years he was a serial killer and they didn't wise up until (2003?). IMO, I don't think whoever is responsible is necessarily bright, but rather LE missed the boat. The behavior of LE in case after case linked here is a good example of how this killer(s) got away with their crime for so long.

I don't think that he isn't a killer. I do think he has done it. I am not excusing him for his behaviors. I think he also has an ego where he wants to tie himself to a crime he had no part of, but had the fantasy that he did.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Then again, it is just my opinion...but we have over 40 (or even 10) young men who have been possibly murdered with NO signs of such. They have stumped the best MEs, the best detectives (save two), the FBI, and the best that the little forensics done on them all has to offer. Now...I ask you...how could a person like Lilly with little education have pulled this off?! There is something else going on here. Someone has extensive forensics knowledge, has an agenda, and has a definite grudge against this age group of successful young men. It is starting to sound like a woman.

 

[shadowraiths]

I don't think that he isn't a killer. I do think he has done it. I am not excusing him for his behaviors. I think he also has an ego where he wants to tie himself to a crime he had no part of, but had the fantasy that he did.

He is definitely creepy, to say the least. And I do think he could pull off a few murders of this kind without detection. Imho, the biggest question mark wrt his being a viable long-term serial killer, is the fact that he advertised his desire to be "another Dahmer" as opposed to say, being more sneaky (i.e., getting involved in the investigations, for example).

Additionally, per the court record, he does apparently have some sort of mental disorder (though he did not plea down due to diminished mental capacity, and he decide to forgo an NGRI defense). And, notably, assuming some of the drownings are the work of some sort of serial killer, they should have stopped once he was in prison. Yet, they didn't.

His fantasy is however provocative, in that he seems to have thought a few things through (the least of which includes identifying those states that do not have capital punishment). Imho, to have progressed that far in his thought process means he has more likely than not acted out the fantasy.

Furthermore, that he spent some time with Pat on the role-play thing, indicates that he has likely done so with others. The question is, who? And how far did they go?

That's why I made the comment that I did wrt McGraw's "he may well be a carbon copy of him."

In other words, in this scenario, he wouldn't even know that he'd "role played" with a budding serial killer. But he sure would have given said SK plenty to work with.

 

[Cirrus]

What does your gut feeling say? Accident? Could very well be. However, it would be great if they connect the dots for the family. I will be satisfied it was a horrid accident when they do. A viable theory has to come into play tho.

My gut feeling says that it was very much not an accident. I'm going to keep looking into this one until I'm proven wrong.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

He is definitely creepy, to say the least. And I do think he could pull off a few murders of this kind without detection. Imho, the biggest question mark wrt his being a viable long-term serial killer, is the fact that he advertised his desire to be "another Dahmer" as opposed to say, being more sneaky (i.e., getting involved in the investigations, for example). Yes, his "desire or fantasy" is to be involved which is what I am saying. If he could be involved in such a thing it would only mean to him that he was being "idolized" in his mind as he felt about other sexual killers.

Additionally, per the court record, he does apparently have some sort of mental disorder (though he did not plea down due to diminished mental capacity, and he decide to forgo an NGRI defense). And, notably, assuming some of the drownings are the work of some sort of serial killer, they should have stopped once he was in prison. Yet, they didn't. The killings did not stop once he was in prison?! He is not that smart or has the sanity of a man who would want to hide his participation. Do we really go by what the courts term as crazy? Sorry, I don't. By that time...it only is up to them to decide if they knew right from wrong at the time. To me...it is not a designation of certifiable.

His fantasy is however provocative, in that he seems to have thought a few things through (the least of which includes identifying those states that do not have capital punishment). Imho, to have progressed that far in his thought process means he has more likely than not acted out the fantasy. Thank you...fantasy. I feel the people who are doing this do not care because they never imagine themselves to be caught. It puts them into another psychological category.

Furthermore, that he spent some time with Pat on the role-play thing, indicates that he has likely done so with others. The question is, who? And how far did they go? Like you said...he is into fantasy. Of course he will role play with anyone and depict anything that is fed to him. You can't tell me that Pat didn't feed him things because she had the upper psychological hand. That's why I made the comment that I did wrt McGraw's "he may well be a carbon copy of him."

In other words, in this scenario, he wouldn't even know that he'd "role played" with a budding serial killer. But he sure would have given said SK plenty to work with.

? I don't get it. There is everything there for people to work with...Lilly is nuts. He does love what he says. He probably has done what he fantasizes about to this day. I have a difficult time believing it involves these young men. I would more suspect him of gaining power over children or lesser males. He is not choosing the brightest and the most athletic for his pursuits, imo. He fantasizes that he could. He is not a viable suspect in any of the drownings.

 

[Silver~Bell]

There's a time in any poker game where the players have to place more money in the pot or fold. "Put up or shut up" is the ungracious way they put it. I'm wondering why the NY detectives aren't "putting up." The media and the FBI have "called" them.

If they know there truly is a Smiley Face Gang, and can "out" some of the members, why aren't they doing so? Because in a gang, someone will always squeal once the game is up. Even the fearsome Mara Salvatrucha gang has its squealers. Even the mob does.

What's going to happen is that unless something substantial is shared by these detectives, local LE and the FBI are going to be more and more sure that no foul play was involved. Because unfortunately, with the idea of the "gang" involved, the attention is centering on this "gang," and not on the possibility that various of the young men met with foul play from any other source. IMHO.

I think LE is going to stand by their original (shabby) work in some of these cases by pointing out that no gang is materializing...which will embolden the criminals who have so obviously killed some of these young men. While I think some evil like-minded people might have met through the internet and cooked up crimes, I am so doubting a gang per se.

On the other hand, while I think talking up the Smiley Face Gang may encourage copycats, maybe it will "flush out" individuals who committed crimes who don't want others "getting credit" for their crimes. They might brag to someone that they really did it...but will LE be listening?

I'm just really wondering why there has been no more supportive information from the NY detectives...and no, I don't think they are infallible. One of the neighbors in LE thinks we never went to the moon -- so like anyone, they can have their blind spots or weird ideas.

 

[Blink34]

Blink, were you wanting info on what William Jacobsen was wearing? I found it here:

http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/2008/04/willie-jacobson-19-ithaca-ny.html

Facts of Interest in This Case:
Name/age: William ("Willie") Jacobson (originally from St. Paul)
College: Ithaca College, Ithaca
Major: writing
Physical Description: white male, 5’9” tall, 165 lbs., thin build, black wavy hair, goatee. Wearing Shakespeare costume consisting of white long-sleeved dress shirt, navy blue vest, black dress pants, and black dress shoes.
Last seen: 4/27/08, sometime between 3:30 and 4:00 am
Recovered: 4/30/08
Cause of death: pending investigation
Manner of death: pending investigation
Injuries: no signs of foul play or trauma
Air temperature: in the 40s

not me Suz, I was asking about the autopsy, I knew he had the costume on when he was found from COlton's site- Thanks for the update. I am going to be preliminarily happy about the "pending investigation" as opposed to the "accidental drowning" before he hit the morgue.