Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #2

[SuziQ]

Video about the Congressman's letter is up. Video is on the right side of the page.

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S430604.shtml?cat=1

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Thanks, Suzi!

 

[Silver~Bell]

Going against the flow here...

Not to rile anyone...just like everyone here, this is just IMO...but if the retired NY detectives can't come up with with more, I'm leaning towards unrelated crimes and accidents being the reason for these deaths.

Not saying there weren't some victims of foul play, but by individual criminals or pairs, not a gang...for me it's just not adding up anymore, especially the concurrent drownings in different towns, and especially the smiley-face angle...b/c criminals and kids use the smilies all the time, I mean, look at the posts even on this and every forum and IM, smilies galore...there was just a case not long ago where those 2 thugs escaped prison and left that taunting "thank you" note to the guard (who later commited suicide) with a smiley shooting the bird...there are smilies all over as graffiti.

Most troubling to me is the timeline, the decade+ -long nature of the deaths, and the lack of anything more as evidence from the detectives, as well as the flat-out statement from the FBI that these are unrelated.

I think the latest death was perhaps a copycat type of thing...I do think some of these young men certainly met with foul play, but no longer think of "the Smiley Face Gang" being involved.

 

[SuziQ]

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=8254534&nav=4QcS

Albany police believe a painting left near the area where Joshua Szostak was last seen is a hoax. (more at link)

 

[shadowraiths]

17-year-old Brian Carrick is listed on the Commonalities page. He went Missing on December 20, 2002 after leaving Val's (where he also worked). Although his body has never been found, it appears he was murdered.

Terry Carrick does regret, however, that no adults at Val's examined the watery blood found in and near a walk-in produce cooler early Saturday morning before a manager, assuming it was meat drippings, told a stock boy to mop it up. Police also found blood, later identified as from Brian Carrick, on the cooler's outside and inside walls and on boxes that had been thrown in the compactor.

http://boards.aetv.com/thread.jspa?threadID=700004712

http://cbs2chicago.com/northsuburbanbureau/Brian.Carrick.William.2.337589.html

 

[SeriouslySearching]

The smiley faces aren't the only thing tying them together. Even if we disregard those (which could be just vandal graffiti in the areas), there are other things the detectives say they are not releasing. I agree some could very well be accidents and other could have different causes for these men to have accidently fallen into the rivers etc. There could be copycats among them, too. Still...you can't deny the multitude of these happening in the same areas.

I am not saying their theory is altogether correct, but I do think these deaths should have been investigated much better. If it means they are going to review and figure out exactly what took place before the drownings...I think it is a good thing. They should take it a step further and examine their computers for other evidence which I am sure they did not do in the original investigations.

By the way, Silver...Jacobson's isn't the only body recovered since this story broke. I think we are up to 4 now?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=8254534&nav=4QcS

Albany police believe a painting left near the area where Joshua Szostak was last seen is a hoax. (more at link)

I think I would have to agree with that. It didn't look like the others if you will notice on our photo thread. The circle was used as the smile part.

I also think the blue one at Ithaca was a hoax.

 

[DeltaDawn]

The smiley faces are only in some of the locations..which means that portion of the group uses them as a symbol. To me, that is an easily defined symbol for the rest of the group, not so much for LE or the public in general because of it's commonality. But what better symbol that would not draw attention, due to that fact.

I am not ready to totally discount a group effort in this. There are many factors that point in that direction ..and we don't have all the info the from the detectives.

It is far fetched and bizarre..but so are most serial killers, gang rapes and any other situations where several people conspire for one goal that appears twisted and abnormal to others.

These detectives had an illustrious career in NY PD. Why would they tarnish this now with outlandish claims..that makes less sense to me then a group of killers who band for one intent. Groups of killers are actually prevalent in history. The James gang, the Mafia, etc. Gangs of killers have been an age old problem. Today with the INTERNET they would have the chance to flourish across states and countrys. We need to open our minds and think outside the box.

 

[Cirrus]

I've talked to more people about the smiley at Ithaca. It wasn't even a hoax - it's been there since September. It's just a bad coincidence.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Exactly, DD. It was the reason I brought up the Dead Pool. It is definitely outside the box, but evidently a reality in our world.

Just when I think our research has covered all the depravity that could go on...something pops up in certain investigations which always blow me away. You cannot say it can't happen or it won't happen...because they will prove you wrong everytime.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I've talked to more people about the smiley at Ithaca. It wasn't even a hoax - it's been there since September. It's just a bad coincidence.

Thanks, Cirrus! Good to know! You are really an excellent reporter of the facts on his case. Your input is very welcomed along with others from your area.

 

[SuziQ]

Blink, were you wanting info on what William Jacobsen was wearing? I found it here:

http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/2008/04/willie-jacobson-19-ithaca-ny.html

Facts of Interest in This Case:
Name/age: William ("Willie") Jacobson (originally from St. Paul)
College: Ithaca College, Ithaca
Major: writing
Physical Description: white male, 5’9” tall, 165 lbs., thin build, black wavy hair, goatee. Wearing Shakespeare costume consisting of white long-sleeved dress shirt, navy blue vest, black dress pants, and black dress shoes.
Last seen: 4/27/08, sometime between 3:30 and 4:00 am
Recovered: 4/30/08
Cause of death: pending investigation
Manner of death: pending investigation
Injuries: no signs of foul play or trauma
Air temperature: in the 40s

 

[SeriouslySearching]

That was me, Suzi and thanks! I was trying to get an idea of what a taser or a stun gun would have to go thru as far as clothing was concerned. It didn't mention a jacket, but it said that the temp was in the 40s. Interesting. That costume could be one he put together depending on the vest and the type of shirt he wore. I doubt if he had a blousy one readily available in his closet.

If his body was in a shallow pond for all that time in the middle of campus...why wasn't he noticed before? I realize the gasses from the body will make him float up more...but if it was that shallow...the wind blowing would have created a bit of a current pushing him towards the bank of the pond...wouldn't it?

I have a challenge for Randal or someone on campus. Try getting someone with fishing experience to check out that pond. They can drop a line and tell you how deep it is without getting into the water.

 

[SuziQ]

SS, I just happen to be reading up on WJ right now. At the below link it states that the water was about 8ft deep.

http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/2008/04/willie-jacobson-19-ithaca-ny.html

Recovery
A State Police dive team found Jacobson’s body in about eight feet of water in the Farm Road pond this morning. Acting Ithaca Police Chief Edward Vallely said there were no visible injuries on the body, and the location of the pond suggested Jacobson was taking a normal route back to his residence hall. According to college spokesperson, Dave Maley, the retention pond is just down an embankment from a sidewalk that Jacobson could have been using to get home. It is conceivable that he tumbled into the pond, said Maley, but it is "too early to know exactly what happened." Jacobson still had his wallet and his cell phone with him.

 

[SuziQ]

I have a challenge for Randal or someone on campus. Try getting someone with fishing experience to check out that pond. They can drop a line and tell you how deep it is without getting into the water.

I think our brave RG needs to put on some waders and see how far in you'd have to walk before the pond is let's say, up to your chest.

 

[DeltaDawn]

Also is that a retention pond..meaning water is constantly seeping in? If so that could effect where a body would float to..it wouldn't be a still pond.

Just saw your post SuziQ.. it is a retention pond..that means the water is not still. It also means that in 8 ft of water, fully clothed and if you had been stunned you would not survive at 40 degree temps..the water would be much colder and with the weight of clothing harder to swim. I wonder if his shoes or boots were still on?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I think our brave RG needs to put on some waders and see how far in you'd have to walk before the pond is let's say, up to your chest.

Well..someone with fishing experience would have waders, too. My ex-bf could tell you very close to how deep by the line dropped to the center of any river, lake, etc. (Obviously, a talent I never picked up and thought I would not have a need for in this lifetime. )

 

[SeriouslySearching]

OK DD...so how did he get from the shallow part of the bank to the middle to begin with? You don't tumble into any pond and land a few feet in. Now, being a retention pond...I guess it is possible there is a trench close to the cement area where the water is probably much deeper...yes?

 

[dark_shadows]

My very dearest SeriouslySearching,:blowkiss:
Hello my friend!
Here is a link for you from 2003.
6 Disappearances: Coincidence Or Serial Killer?
http://www.channel3000.com/news/1973837/detail.html

Part of the article;
Since Halloween, six college-aged men have vanished -- most while walking home alone late at night after drinking at parties or bars.

Officials say the disappearances are not connected, but their families disagree.

From St. John's University west of Minneapolis to Notre Dame in South Bend, Ind., bells toll and tears flow for six young men who've vanished without a trace. Their anguished families are begging for answers and assistance from law enforcement in unraveling their heart-wrenching mysteries, 12 News investigative reporter Colleen Henry said.

"We have a sliver of hope that he's alive," Steve Jenkins said.

Three-and-a-half months ago, Steve Jenkins got the call that rocked his family's life -- his son, Chris, never made it home from a Halloween party. He was a star athlete and honor student at the University of Minnesota. Chris Jenkins was the first of six who disappeared.

• Oct. 31: Friends saw the 21-year-old Jenkins, from Racine County, leaving a downtown Minneapolis bar dressed in his Halloween costume. No one's seen him since.
• Nov. 6: 75 miles east, University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire student Michael Noll vanished after leaving a party at the Nasty Habit tavern. It was his 22nd birthday.
• Nov. 9: 75 miles west, 20-year-old Josh Guimond disappeared as he headed home from a card party in a dorm at St. John's University.
• Dec. 12: 18-year-old Chad Sharon was going back to the dorm after an off-campus party near Notre Dame. There's been no trace of the northern Wisconsin teenager.
• Dec. 20: 17-year-old Brian Carrick was seen walking into the Johnsburg, Ill., grocery store where he worked. No one saw him walk out.
• Jan. 10: 21-year-old Nathan Herr headed home from Thursday's $10-all-you-can-drink night at a Sheboygan sports bar and vanished without a trace.

Chris Jenkins' dad takes each disappearance personally.



So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows

 

[SuziQ]

Alright, so I just walked down and completely around the pond where Will Jacobson was recovered. Turns out, there IS a foot path that goes around it on the road-side as well as the other side, but it's still incredibly unlikely to fall in from there. In addition, I had been remembering the incline as being STEEPER than it is. Over 90% of the pond, if one were to fall, no matter how close to the water itself, there would be no 'tumble in' scenario. You would hit the ground, go "damn," and then get back up. There is only one section where one could actually tumble in, and 1) this would cause injury, and 2) The water over the ENTIRETY of the edge of the pond is extremely shallow, less than a foot deep - for two or three feet into the pond. One would have to actively WADE in in order to get to a point that was more than ankle deep. Even if he had tumbled in from that one small area where it's vaguely possible to do so, he would've landed in the shallows and simply stayed there.

DD, I'm bumping this up regarding how Shallow the entirety of the perimeter is.