Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #2

[SeriouslySearching]

Prolly the same way SFPD explained this. Of course, we all know that when a person commits suicide by knife, they stab themselves repeatedly, then walk several feet to the kitchen to wash said knife off before walking back to the living room to die. Sure we do.

Exactly! Where does common sense fit into their notebook of working a case anymore?! (The one you cited is not unlike Gerwing in Hilton Head, SC! http://www.nowpublic.com/world/man-linked-missing-sc-couple-commits-suicide)

 

[Blink34]

Omg, that's absurd! This poor family.

Shadow, you forgot about yanking your own computer out of the wall first Un- believable

 

[SeriouslySearching]

The article appears to have been written on Apr 18, 2004, prior to Lucas Homan's death (Feb 10, 2006), though right on the heels of Jared Dion's death (Apr 15, 2004).

Maybe we need to comb through all news reports of these men/boys before their deaths and crossreference them, too. I do know I have come across several articles and also listings on the schools websites for the athletes. (You are prolly way ahead of me on that tho. LOL)

 

[Blink34]

Welcome to WS, Dairybest! Yes, this is another one that sounds suspicious. Thanks for posting it! It is odd the father didn't report him missing tho. We don't know any circumstances of where he was before. Still...drowning and no signs of foul play certainly fit.

Does he go in? I'll start the NH thread if you think.

sorry, didnt carry your entire post, I was referring to the April 25th NH vic, missing 3/21

 

[Blink34]

Has anyone run across Jaramy Alford's birthday anywhere? Runnng down an alias issue.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

2/25/1983

Name: JARAMY LYNN ALFORD. Birth Date: 2/25/1983. Current Status: Incarcerated. Location: Minnesota Correctional Facility Stillwater. Admit Date: 10/18/2006 ...

 

[Blink34]

Thank you SS- and you prob didnt have to look- that's how you roll

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Does he go in? I'll start the NH thread if you think.

sorry, didnt carry your entire post, I was referring to the April 25th NH vic, missing 3/21

Since we are listing possibles...yes. Thanks for doing that! We might as well include him until we can rule him out at this point. This way people might come across new information on him.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Thank you SS- and you prob didnt have to look- that's how you roll

Gosh! I am so glad you think so highly of my instant recall n all....but I put this in Google: Jaramy Alford's birth date. :blowkiss:

 

[SuziQ]

Congressman calls on FBI to reopen drowning cases

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S430604.shtml?cat=1

 

[SuziQ]

Read the Congressman's letter to the FBI

http://sensenbrenner.house.gov/UploadedFiles/sensenbrenner%20letter%20to%20fbi.pdf

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Thanks for posting, Woofie and Suzi! The letter does show that the pressure is being applied as I assumed to be taking place behind the scenes. We will see more from other politicians in the near future. I don't think this is directly related to letters coming into his office from constituents, but more along the lines of people in influential places applying the pressure. (I still want to discourage letter writing campaigns at this point.)

http://sensenbrenner.house.gov/UploadedFiles/sensenbrenner%20letter to fbi.pdf

 

[eve]

Read the Congressman's letter to the FBI

http://sensenbrenner.house.gov/UploadedFiles/sensenbrenner%20letter%20to%20fbi.pdf

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Eve

 

[Blink34]

Thanks for posting, Woofie and Suzi! The letter does show that the pressure is being applied as I assumed to be taking place behind the scenes. We will see more from other politicians in the near future. I don't think this is directly related to letters coming into his office from constituents, but more along the lines of people in influential places applying the pressure. (I still want to discourage letter writing campaigns at this point.)

http://sensenbrenner.house.gov/UploadedFiles/sensenbrenner letter to fbi.pdf

Agreed, good posts all, the letter writing thing is a good idea to hold off on for now, hopefully this is the first of many

 

[SeriouslySearching]

My relative was a Congressional aide and I watched closely how things worked. Yes, the letters and calls were considered...but when the pressure came from their campaign contributors...things happened. The letters and calls were fielded by staff members and mentioned to the Congressman...but a polite form letter response was usually what they got.

 

[Randal Graves]

In my experience, police in college towns can have a somewhat contemptuous and even resentful view of the typical "college boy."

I agree. Most of the college cops here only interact with students when they're drunk or in trouble. 90% of their time is spent breaking up parties. They have a very skewed view of students and it's a shame WJ's case is being closed prematurely as a result.

When bodies have been in the water, marks are obliterated.

HOW CAREFULLY HAVE THEY CHECKED FOR THE VERY SMALL MARKS a stun gun leaves?

Doubt a stun gun was used. Whatever the case, the autopsy will probably have valuable info...

Back to the "all wet" theory. If the young men were drugged and unconscious, wouldn't there be a lot of water in the lungs? It seems if they were drugged, they would continue to reflexivly (sp?) breathe and would suck in water.

I could be wrong about this, but it seems a lot of these young men show signs of "dry" drowning, and to my non-medical mind, that just seems illogical. From Chris' situation, I think it is logical to assume his head was held under. Somebody else had to get wet. If you throw someone in, wouldn't there be evidence of bruises, etc. that would show they had hit rocks, brush, etc.? Maybe all that falls under the "no signs of foul play" analysis.

It's hard to say if he actually died from drowning because eventually some time after death the laryngeal passages relax and allow water to completely fill the lungs. After 3 full days under water, WJ's lungs were most likely full of water and so they didn't indicate whether he died from drowning or whether he was dead before entering the water.

I know William Jacobson was only underwater for three days, but when they pulled him out they were at first only "tentatively" identifying him - which leads me to believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that in just those three days, his body had become difficult to identify.

Also, in the school newspaper this morning, it was reported that Jacobson had no bruising at all, and thus they were ruling out foul play. To me, this seems completely counter-intuitive. Had he stumbled down the incline and somehow managed to go unconscious and wind up in the pond, presumably he would've HAD to hit SOMETHING on his way down. And since, according to the last person that talked to him, he wasn't that drunk - presumably he would've had to hit his head in a fall like that in order to be out enough to actually drown.

If the theory is that he fell in (down an incline) while walking home, the lack of injuries/bruises makes no sense at all.

They "tentatively" IDed him because that's just how the law works. They needed definitive proof that it's the person they're looking for. He was probably pretty well preserved in that cold water.

I agree about the injuries though. And their faulty reasoning says a lot about the way this case is being handled. It wouldn't be very difficult for the perps to kill without causing visible trauma. Suffocation leaves virtually no evidence as a cause of death- except for very small pin-point hemorrhages around the eyes. Again, the autopsy will say a lot....

Alright, so I just walked down and completely around the pond where Will Jacobson was recovered. Turns out, there IS a foot path that goes around it on the road-side as well as the other side, but it's still incredibly unlikely to fall in from there. In addition, I had been remembering the incline as being STEEPER than it is. Over 90% of the pond, if one were to fall, no matter how close to the water itself, there would be no 'tumble in' scenario. You would hit the ground, go "damn," and then get back up. There is only one section where one could actually tumble in, and 1) this would cause injury, and 2) The water over the ENTIRETY of the edge of the pond is extremely shallow, less than a foot deep - for two or three feet into the pond. One would have to actively WADE in in order to get to a point that was more than ankle deep. Even if he had tumbled in from that one small area where it's vaguely possible to do so, he would've landed in the shallows and simply stayed there.

Yeah, I saw that too today. That foot trail wasn't always there, but now that it is the possibility of him falling in by accident seems even less likely. There is maybe one spot where someone could possibly fall off the path and into the water, but it's still very unlikely. This also happens to be the area of the pond where he was found. However, it is coincidentally also the closest area of the pond to the road and one of the easiest ways to access the water.

We should get a brave person to wade in a little way to see how deep it actually is. That would be kind of creepy though.

btw, there are pics here:
http://theithacan.org/include/gallery/2008/0430_jacobson/

 

[RR0004]

Eve...was thinking of you...bar crawl today in Madison. All fingers and toes crossed.

Randal...great post...I always did think that over time, and with the body bloating, many signs of trauma would disappear. As far as them looking into a date rape drug or such, I was under the impression that it left the body pretty quickly. With these drownings, have they ever been able to pinpoint an actual TOD? Is there anything to say he was immediately put into the water? Could someone have dragged him towards the middle of the pond? A boat dump him later?

 

[SuziQ]

In bold is by me.

It's hard to say if he actually died from drowning because eventually some time after death the laryngeal passages relax and allow water to completely fill the lungs. After 3 full days under water, WJ's lungs were most likely full of water and so they didn't indicate whether he died from drowning or whether he was dead before entering the water.

Now this I find interesting. It could be that drowning has nothing to do in many of these cases.

Yeah, I saw that too today. That foot trail wasn't always there, but now that it is the possibility of him falling in by accident seems even less likely. There is maybe one spot where someone could possibly fall off the path and into the water, but it's still very unlikely. This also happens to be the area of the pond where he was found. However, it is coincidentally also the closest area of the pond to the road and one of the easiest ways to access the water.

Is the inlet/outlet cement box thing the only area where the bank is steep and is this where the vic went in?

We should get a brave person to wade in a little way to see how deep it actually is. That would be kind of creepy though.

I volunteer you! lol. :crazy:

btw, there are pics here:
http://theithacan.org/include/gallery/2008/0430_jacobson/

Pic #10 is a good one.

 

[RR0004]

Going back a few pages, I also agree this is about "privilege"...whether it's LEs view of the victims involved...or the actual killers.

 

[SuziQ]

Going back a few pages, I also agree this is about "privilege"...whether it's LEs view of the victims involved...or the actual killers.

So sad that it could be the cause of their death's and the reason their death's aren't investigated.