Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #3

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I got this off of a website called doctordeluca.com ;


"11
UI - 13
AU - Kalasinsky KS
AU - Dixon MM
AU - Schmunk GA
AU - Kish SJ
AD - Office of the Armed Forces Medical Examiner, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, Rockville, MD 20850, USA. kalasink@afip.osd.mil
TI - Blood, brain, and hair GHB concentrations following fatal ingestion
AB - Despite the increasing incidence of illicit use of gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB), little information is available documenting levels of the drug in GHB fatalities. We measured GHB levels in postmortem blood, brain and hair specimens from a suspected overdose case by gas chromatography/mass spectrometry (GC/MS) following solid phase extraction (SPE) and derivatization with bis(trimethyl-silyl) trifluoroacetamide (BSTFA). Examination found 330 microg/mL GHB in femoral blood and 221 ng/mg GHB in frontal cortex brain tissue, values higher than those typically reported in the literature. The hair shaft was negative for GHB whereas the plucked root bulbs with outer root sheath attached (2,221 ng/mg) and root bulbs after washing and removal of the outer root sheath (47 ng/mg) contained the drug.Our results are consistent with an acute single dose of GHB and, as the toxicology screen was negative for other drugs of abuse, emphasize the significant danger of this drug
UR - PM:11373018
SO - J Forensic Sci 2001 May ;46(3):728-730"

*********
The above test was done on a GHB fatal overdose subject so perhaps that's why the GHB showed up in the first place (that non-fatal doses do not show up).

-Makes me think that the victims might have died from an overdose of GHB and that is why there is so little water in their lungs.
-Wonder if ME tested victims hair ROOT for GHB?


 
Great information, Arizona! (I copied it over to the Drug thread, too. I hope you don't mind.) It would be worth asking if the root bulb was checked in the autopsies.

Could there be a connection in numbers...phone numbers, social security numbers, banking numbers, ip addresses, birthdates, student ID numbers, or drivers license numbers?
 
Ok, so I started wondering if the killer(s) are really smart enough to know that disposing of bodies in water would wash away evidence...did they get the idea from a book, movie, or tv show perhaps? Or did they just get lucky?

[CSI can be ruled out--it started airing in 2000]

I came across this wikipedia entry about disposing of bodies in water...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_disposal_of_bodies_in_the_water

"Many criminals dispose of bodies in a river, hoping that the body is carried away. However, this method will most likely lead to a quick detection of the body, because the body gets entangled at the side of the river, or stopped at a dam, or is simply seen floating by others...
{snip}
Very cold water with little oxygen may even preserve bodies, allowing for an easier identification..."

If they were smart enough to know that water would wash away evidence, did they also know that cold water would preserve the victim (to some degree)? Or that the chances were good that the body would get hung up along the way if put in a river vs. a lake?

Are these happening in winter months in an attempt to preserve the body? If the victim is put in a lake, are they hoping that ice will keep the victim hidden for awhile (until spring), but well preserved? If the victim is put in a river, are they hoping that the victim is found SOONER, but still preserved?

Maybe if there's a pattern to their "pickups", it doesn't really matter which body of water the victim is put in--they just need water nearby.

Just things that have been rattling around in my brain today...
 
SuziQ said:
I know there are ME and or Patholigists that have posted here, particularly the Rose Cole thread. You should PM them. lol.
Click to expand...

I love Janis Amatuzzio - forensic pathologist /Coroner here in MN. She has written some great books and I have seen her on Court TV (I think it was Court TV). I wish she would get interested in this case. Maybe I will try to email her. I know she has a website. Anyone else know of her?

Eve
 
To me it looked like that common "puffy letter" graffiti plus an angular line and another letter above--maybe "Vi"?
 
I've been following this case with interest and a little skeptitism. A "gang" doing this seens like something out of fiction, as I can think of nothing remotely similar ever happening. One individual doing "some" of these seems possible. I don't have any way to assess the credibility of the retired cops who discovered the smiley faces but I would expect some sort of "peer review" from Law Enforcement or the media. This seems potentially bigger than any missing white girl yet Cable News hasn't really picked it up yet. Perhaps, as we prattle on, an army of reporters are visiting sites, photographing "smiley faces" and other graffiti and other wise putting the story together. Perhaps the FBI has got them to agree to "put it on hold" while they make their move. ON THE OTHER HAND, perhaps this is all a big hoax and and all of the real insiders know it.

Does anyone out there know whats really going on?

For what its worth, I went over a list of 42 potential victims and two definitely left bars very drunk; wandered around disoriented and probably lost; and then found their way into the water on their own. 4 or 5 others were seen alone, apparently drunk, appearing lost or disoriented very late at night and subsequentally found their way into the water. I am beginning to suspect that these could all be improbable accidents. We all associate alcohol poisoniong with rash behavior, loss of coordination and loss of consciousness but could a very high BAC lead some to disoriented "wandering" behavior? (something like what happens to folks with dementia)
 
I am new at posting here (but a loooong time lurker), so please be kind :)

Just a really wild thought I had...Some ultra sub-culture, kind of like Dungeons and Dragons, connected to lyrics of a particular band/song???

I went to Wikipedia.com, typed in Smiley, and came to this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiley_(disambiguation)

I clicked on a couple of the links concerning song lyrics and got this website http://www.lyricsdownload.com/

I then typed in "Smiley song lyrics" in their search engine. I was amazed at the number of songs that have "smiley face" in the lyrics.

I would post a couple of the songs' lyrics, but don't know if I am allowed to. Some of the songs are pretty weird, and some are pretty violent.
 
Just wanted to let you guys know that the bar that Tommy Booth went missing from, only has a camera on that front glass door. There is also a front door that is off camera, as well as a back door that leads to a small parking strip...then the creek. This bar is located in a strip mall so if he went out the other front door (not on camera), as the bar claims he must have, why would he walk all the way around the strip mall to get to the creek??

Maybe he went out the back door by MISTAKE? Not likely. Even the detective thought that his BAC wasn't high enough to be totally wasted like that. He came in through double glass doors, but mistook a dark single door in a dark corner with a push-bar handle as the front door?? I highly doubt that. So now the question is "WHY did he go out the back door?" Did someone prompt him to go that way?

I have faith that these deaths will be linked and eventually the "why" will be answered. Thanks to Det. Willoughby, the M.E. is taking another look at the autopsy results so maybe he'll find something he missed because he wasn't looking for anything suspicious the first time around. And you're right....we, the families, have never believed it was "accidental."
 
Denise, thank you for your post and welcome to WS, albeit under such tragic circumstances. We are here to help get answers and support!:blowkiss:
 
kemo said:
Does anyone out there know whats really going on?

For what its worth, I went over a list of 42 potential victims and two definitely left bars very drunk; wandered around disoriented and probably lost; and then found their way into the water on their own. 4 or 5 others were seen alone, apparently drunk, appearing lost or disoriented very late at night and subsequentally found their way into the water. I am beginning to suspect that these could all be improbable accidents. We all associate alcohol poisoniong with rash behavior, loss of coordination and loss of consciousness but could a very high BAC lead some to disoriented "wandering" behavior? (something like what happens to folks with dementia)
Click to expand...

Your statement of 6-7 cases, IMO, isn't ALL of the cases. Certainly some cases can probably be attributed to accidents or suicide. And keep in mind that these possible cases don't jive with national drowning statistics. Most young men die of drowning during warmer months, in the presence of others and while engaged in a water sport. These possible cases happened during very cold and freezing weather, with no one around. Their are also no signs of injuries usually found in a drowning accident attributed to a fall.

Another thing to consider about high BAC is, how does one, who is falling down drunk, navigate themselves, blocks or a mile, across traffic, and in one case an 8 lane highway? Then navigate down to the banks of a river that is designed to prevent accidents of this exact type? In many cases there is a sidewalk or promenade then at least a dozen feet of large rip rap, etc. etc. Ever walk on rip rap? Nearly impossible while sober. I would say impossible when it's dark and someone has a high BAC.
 
Denise, thank you for your post. I am so sorry that this has happened to you. And welcome to WS. You don't have to answer, are you related to Tommy?
 
Just found this article about gang symbols. Some Latino and black? gang members are now shaving vertical lines/slashes in the middle of their eyebrows to signify that they are members. Looks similar to the slash eyes of some of the smiley face graffiti. If it is street type gangs targeting the white college boys, race could be enough motive for latino or black gangs.

http://www.newhouse.com/shaved-lines-in-eyebrows-raise-gang-concerns-in-schools.html
 
This is the typical drowning scenario for young men. This just happened today. Very sad.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/16213736/detail.html

Two teenage boys drowned Friday during a 'senior skip day' outing with classmates at Lake Allatoona.

The victims, 18- and 15-years-old, both attended North Cobb High School.

Officials told WSB-TV Channel 2 reporter Tiffani Reynolds the teens were at the Red Top Mountain area of the lake with a group of about a dozen other students.
 
The latest report on Tommy Booth. I don't think the smiley faces should be used to determine whether a case is related or not. They've only been spotted near the water entry point in 22 cases out of 40+. I think the facts in Tommy's case speaks louder than the smiley.

http://www.nbc10.com/news/16217089/detail.html

(snip)
Ridley Township police said they believe this could be the lead they were looking for, but the owner of Bootlegger's Bar said that ominous smiley face has been there for two years. But it's not stopping the investigation from going forward.
 
eve said:
I love Janis Amatuzzio - forensic pathologist /Coroner here in MN. She has written some great books and I have seen her on Court TV (I think it was Court TV). I wish she would get interested in this case. Maybe I will try to email her. I know she has a website. Anyone else know of her?

Eve
Click to expand...

Her name isn't ringing a bell. That would be great if you contacted her.
 
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