Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #3

[SheerLuck]

I think while the phones, in a couple of cases, have been possibly used as a decoy...they are smart enough to never have the phone near the victim after he is abducted.

Exactly right. And thats one of the odd coincidences that seems to make this look like a serial murder case. I'm still a bit skeptical; only because the detectives, the Jenkins and Kristi Piel say that only 10% of the evidence they have has been given out to the public; but the FBI has been given isome of that info, that the public hasn't been given; yet the FBI still isn't interested. I guess we'll have to wait and see what the detectives other info is.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Exactly right. And thats one of the odd coincidences that seems to make this look like a serial murder case. I'm still a bit skeptical; only because the detectives, the Jenkins and Kristi Piel say that only 10% of the evidence they have has been given out to the public; but the FBI has been given isome of that info, that the public hasn't been given; yet the FBI still isn't interested. I guess we'll have to wait and see what the detectives other info is.

I will have to find the link, but I believe what happened was when the FBI spoke to the detectives...they were not given the case and evidence was not presented to them. The Professor did allow them to see what he had come up with and when the FBI made their statement...they had only seen this portion. As far as I know, the detectives have been unable to get them to look at the case as it stands today with all the evidence. The FBI has been remiss in investigations by only looking at the paperwork presented to them by LE and by the Professor. The reason the FBI is not interested is political, imo.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

SS- I swear you are in my head- I think that is a FANTASTIC idea. Thank you for underlining my post. Mike's case and these cases have absolutely changed the way I view the importance of personal security.
In the interest of disclosure I should tell you that two weeks ago I founded an organization geared to bring awareness to this very issue.
Because it is 501 status, I am not sure if I am allowed to announce the name here, but when I can I would love to share it with all of you.
If everyone would take a second to tell someone you think might be at risk-we can, at a minimum, drastically reduce the chances of this happening to another human being.

While we are all working very diligently here to connect the dots and solve these cases, there is one single common denominator linking all of them-
THEY WERE ALONE.
Eliminate the opportunity, eliminate the crime-

Sorry! :blowkiss: I would love to help in any way I can and I will try to stay out of your head. LOL So much goes on there that it would overwhelm me anyway.

By the way, I have been doing some research on the Christian Athletic Association for any connections. So far...haven't found anything. http://www.playcaa.org/

 

[Blink34]

Sorry! :blowkiss: I would love to help in any way I can and I will try to stay out of your head. LOL So much goes on there that it would overwhelm me anyway.

By the way, I have been doing some research on the Christian Athletic Association for any connections. So far...haven't found anything. http://www.playcaa.org/

Why would you apologize for advocating somthing so important- silly, and yes, LOL, I wouldnt wish figuring out my cerebral cortex on anyone

 

[SheerLuck]

Maybe we should start a campaign to this end. Writing to college newspapers to beef up the caution and the buddy system plus make the ones who actually are targets aware by going directly to groups like the Christian Athletic Association and sports departments. I can come up with something in a matter of days which can be cohesive and catchy that we can email out to campuses. Tell me what you think! (LOL Like you wouldn't?!)

Hi SS; Just my opinion here and you and some others probably won't agree and maybe I'll even be called an *advertiser censored**hole again; but I'd wait until these detectives gave us a bit more than their "10% of what we got" line before you start warning people and selecting specific groups like the Christian A.A. I think this probably is a serial killer plot, but I wouldn't send letters to people until I was sure. I'm different than most who have followed this; because I do not view these detectives in a positive light; in fact I view them quite different and have a dislike for them; so until they either make some arrests or offer more than smiley faces and the word Sinsinawa; I'm still a bit skeptical. Don't get me wrong; I do think someone is targeting and killing young drunk men, but I'm not 100% sold because Kristi Piel and her news director picked ratings sweeps week to announce this story which they sat on for 8 months; while more kids died and the NYC detectives are opening up a nationwide detective business on the internet; after maybe going broke.

 

[SheerLuck]

There were NO prints on Josh's phone- how it could not have had a single print when he was SEEN on the phone, without gloves, on at least 2 seperate surveillance cams

Bill Szostak's daughter found the smiley, which is currently being tested as evidence as to how long it may have been there,

REMOVED PRINTS = FOUL PLAY=criminal investigation

I agree. The Albany Police are great and I can see closing the case when the death is accidental drowning, but not when prints appear swiped anda stolen car is found next to the cell phone. And when Josh's DNA wasn't a match in the stolen Encon vehicle; I thought they'd reopen the case. I'm guessing the detective didn't want to work with a "psychic"; most don't. As for the smiley; it was tested for its age but the test concluded there was no way of knowing when it was drawn. The police test also couldn't determine age. To me it looked way too fresh for 4 winter months, so most likely a stupid, insensitive kid because it was found 2 or 3 days after news of the smiley face gang broke. One thing with police departments is that they get scrutinized and reviewed just like a lot of jobs; and closed cases help their yearly reviews and resumes. So; unfortunately; when an autopsy says accidental drowning; the case is often closed right away.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Hi SS; Just my opinion here and you and some others probably won't agree and maybe I'll even be called an *advertiser censored**hole again; but I'd wait until these detectives gave us a bit more than their "10% of what we got" line before you start warning people and selecting specific groups like the Christian A.A. I think this probably is a serial killer plot, but I wouldn't send letters to people until I was sure.

Uhm...we aren't talking about the cases per se. We are talking about a program where people who go to parties keep an eye on their friends is all. It is about safety all around. Not letting your friends that are drinking take off alone. As in...nothing good happens after midnight anyway. This really isn't specifically about the drownings...just getting college men, in particular, (because they tend to party more and feel bulletproof) more aware of the dangers out there for everyone. Many things happen to men who are out partying then take off alone. Not just drownings. Mike Barbiere was found dead of supposed Hypothermia in the mountains and he was alone after separating from his friends earlier. Case in point.

It doesn't bother me if you don't agree with the Detectives. Everyone has their own opinions about it. They didn't do this because they were "broke". They did this because they don't have the financial resources to keep pouring into the forensics and lab tests which LE and the FBI should be responsible for plus the money it takes to go investigate each case individually at various locations. They used their own funding for a long time...but now they want the correct entities to pony up. I don't blame them one bit!!! They aren't asking John Q. Public for money!!

 

[SeriouslySearching]

One thing with police departments is that they get scrutinized and reviewed just like a lot of jobs; and closed cases help their yearly reviews and resumes. So; unfortunately; when an autopsy says accidental drowning; the case is often closed right away.

Unattended WINTER accidental drownings unless associated with camping, water sports, or other activities involving water should NOT be closed right away even if the ME has to consider it an "accidental drowning". The role of the ME is to determine the cause and manner of death. If a person drowns, has no marks on the body, and it wasn't a suicide...it has to be termed as such. The mistake being made is on the part of LE in all of the cases for not investigating them to the fullest before closing them. They cannot rule in or out foul play until they do, but they are shortcutting them instead. I don't care about their reviews and resumes. Someone needs to step up and put an end to this practice.

 

[Blink34]

I agree. The Albany Police are great and I can see closing the case when the death is accidental drowning, but not when prints appear swiped anda stolen car is found next to the cell phone. And when Josh's DNA wasn't a match in the stolen Encon vehicle; I thought they'd reopen the case. I'm guessing the detective didn't want to work with a "psychic"; most don't. As for the smiley; it was tested for its age but the test concluded there was no way of knowing when it was drawn. The police test also couldn't determine age. To me it looked way too fresh for 4 winter months, so most likely a stupid, insensitive kid because it was found 2 or 3 days after news of the smiley face gang broke. One thing with police departments is that they get scrutinized and reviewed just like a lot of jobs; and closed cases help their yearly reviews and resumes. So; unfortunately; when an autopsy says accidental drowning; the case is often closed right away.

Per Josh's Dad- the detective DID work closely with the psychic, UNTIL Josh was recovered and there was no "suspicious" COD in their eyes.
It was only then that he recommended to Mr. S to "forget everything he was told by the psychic.."

 

[SeriouslySearching]

OK...so where are we today? Any news to report?

 

[txsvicki]

I'm wondering if any of the cities regularly paint over or remove graffiti from public places and if there is any record of the last times it was done.

 

[SheerLuck]

Per Josh's Dad- the detective DID work closely with the psychic, UNTIL Josh was recovered and there was no "suspicious" COD in their eyes.
It was only then that he recommended to Mr. S to "forget everything he was told by the psychic.."

Blink34; what do you mean no "suspicious" COD in their eyes.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I'm wondering if any of the cities regularly paint over or remove graffiti from public places and if there is any record of the last times it was done.

I don't know about other cities, but here they photograph and document graffiti before it is painted over or otherwise removed. Our LE gang unit keeps track of it, as far as I know.

Good question!

 

[SheerLuck]

It doesn't bother me if you don't agree with the Detectives. Everyone has their own opinions about it.... They aren't asking John Q. Public for money!!

You missed my point. I think this very well might be a serial murder case and I have some of my own ideas, but its really a waste of time trying to figure much of anything out beyond a few basic theories; with so little to go on. And so the public can give almost no help at all which means more kids die as time drags on. Maybe they'll make arrests soon and if they do then I'll commend them, but my point is that I think these detectives are real scumbags for silently sitting on all this info for such a long time; while 1 kid after another died. In 2004 the second detective came on board and yet they waited until the spring of 2008 after 25+ more kids died; to finally say anything? And they continue to withhold 90% of their info? As for financial gain; remember that their newly opened nationwide detective service might be free for the smiley murder case; but what about other new cases they take on from their brand new website? You think they'll be free?

 

[Blink34]

Blink34; what do you mean no "suspicious" COD in their eyes.

No suspicious Cause of Death per LE; who is responsible for determining the manner of death in conjunction with ME determination on the cause.

 

[Blink34]

Hi SS; Just my opinion here and you and some others probably won't agree and maybe I'll even be called an *advertiser censored**hole again; but I'd wait until these detectives gave us a bit more than their "10% of what we got" line before you start warning people and selecting specific groups like the Christian A.A. I think this probably is a serial killer plot, but I wouldn't send letters to people until I was sure. I'm different than most who have followed this; because I do not view these detectives in a positive light; in fact I view them quite different and have a dislike for them; so until they either make some arrests or offer more than smiley faces and the word Sinsinawa; I'm still a bit skeptical. Don't get me wrong; I do think someone is targeting and killing young drunk men, but I'm not 100% sold because Kristi Piel and her news director picked ratings sweeps week to announce this story which they sat on for 8 months; while more kids died and the NYC detectives are opening up a nationwide detective business on the internet; after maybe going broke.

I'm confused, SL, I read your posts back a bit, and your opinion seems to have changed drastically from "you had it figured out and you were emailing the detectives," to a now very negative tone regarding them?

Additionally, SS was proposing an "awareness campaign" to groups with the highest likelihood of potential victims, which I applaud. At the end of the day, whether all or some of these cases are linked or not- what organization, ESPECIALLY on campus, would not appreciate the advocation of personal safety. Promoting the buddy system and other areas of personal security and awareness for ALL people is responsible and necessary. If these boys weren't alone, they'd most likely be alive, we know that, er go BUDDY UP, and yes, young men are anc can be victims.

Lastly, the detectives are not going to "give up" evidence in an ongoing criminal investigation because you want proof as a citizen? Ask anyone of us on here that have been through this situation in real life if we would want something leaked that would hinder a prosection after someone took our loved one's life. These are REAL PEOPLE, sons, brothers, nephews, friends.

 

[Blink34]

You missed my point. I think this very well might be a serial murder case and I have some of my own ideas, but its really a waste of time trying to figure much of anything out beyond a few basic theories; with so little to go on. And so the public can give almost no help at all which means more kids die as time drags on. Maybe they'll make arrests soon and if they do then I'll commend them, but my point is that I think these detectives are real scumbags for silently sitting on all this info for such a long time; while 1 kid after another died. In 2004 the second detective came on board and yet they waited until the spring of 2008 after 25+ more kids died; to finally say anything? And they continue to withhold 90% of their info? As for financial gain; remember that their newly opened nationwide detective service might be free for the smiley murder case; but what about other new cases they take on from their brand new website? You think they'll be free?

She didnt miss anything- there was no point-

Allright- you crossed the line- do you think it's more like you emailed them with your dimestore, anyone that watched Barnaby Jones in the 70's theories and they haven't the time for crackpots- cause they are, like, working for nothing for the last 6 years and spending their pensions to get answers and justice for these cases?

Another thing, do you think un-founded and meritless comments like "scumbags" might be offensive to some of the family members whose cases these men are currently investigating? I dont have a problem with a different opinion, I do have a problem with you leveraging factless allegations against people. Have you seen Gannon's resume- decorations, assignments/detail? You think he would risk that for 15 minutes of fame- your right, somebody will call you an *advertiser censored**hole again, but not me, cause I'm betting that's exactly what your looking for:furious:

 

[SheerLuck]

No suspicious Cause of Death per LE; who is responsible for determining the manner of death in conjunction with ME determination on the cause.

Thanx Blink. Hopefully Szostak gets better help--I agree with you; this clearly looks like foul play

 

[SuziQ]

Nationwide Investigations has added media interviews to their website. There's several with Dr. Gilbertson. I haven't watched any of these yet...I have to go plant another rosebush. BBL.

http://nationwideinvestigations.us/press.html

 

[SheerLuck]

I'm confused, SL, I read your posts back a bit, and your opinion seems to have changed drastically from "you had it figured out and you were emailing the detectives," to a now very negative tone regarding them?

Additionally, SS was proposing an "awareness campaign" to groups with the highest likelihood of potential victims, which I applaud. At the end of the day, whether all or some of these cases are linked or not- what organization, ESPECIALLY on campus, would not appreciate the advocation of personal safety. Promoting the buddy system and other areas of personal security and awareness for ALL people is responsible and necessary. If these boys weren't alone, they'd most likely be alive, we know that, er go BUDDY UP, and yes, young men are anc can be victims.

Lastly, the detectives are not going to "give up" evidence in an ongoing criminal investigation because you want proof as a citizen? Ask anyone of us on here that have been through this situation in real life if we would want something leaked that would hinder a prosection after someone took our loved one's life. These are REAL PEOPLE, sons, brothers, nephews, friends.

Blink, I think its nice to try to spread awareness and maybe I shouldn't be such a pessimist, but many of the victims and young guys who get absolutely hammered; in fact when the police interview their friends; in some case the friends tell the police that they were so drunk they don't even remember what bars they were at. For most of us, fun ends at midnight; for college kids; thats when it starts. But hey; if you can alert some kids; that would be good. As for the idea that it helps to give the public just 10% of the info; we don't agree on this one. I think most cops and the FBI do this because their egos get in the way and they want to be the ones who solve the case. The real solution is to catch the killers and the quickest way to catch a killer is to tell the public what's going on and hope that someone who knows this person or people; will come forward. It reminds me of the Unabomber case when the New York Times got hold of the Unabombers manifesto. They alerted the FBI; only to have the morons from the FBI tell the Times not to print it because it might "compromise the case". Luckily the Times ignored the stupidity of the FBI and printed the manifesto anyway; and sure enough; the unabombers brother recognized the similarites of the manifesto to his brothers writings and the killer was captured. And you know; I doubt the detectives wanted Chris Jenkins mom to on Good Morning America and tell America that Chris was tortured in a cargo van for 2 hours before being murdered and drowned, but she said it anyway because she realizes the more clues and evidence revealed to the public; the better the chance of nailing the killer or killers. She probably said it because she was hoping someone who lived locally near Chris at the time; would remember some scary individual who drove a cargo van. Hopefully I'm wrong here and the detectives know what they're doing, but I'm worried they're making a mistake by withholding so much evidence--I'm worried more kids will die with 90% of the info withheld