Dellen Millard: Innocent Dupe? Alternative Theories

[Alethea Dice]

I'm sure they didn't wipe clean Mr. Etobicoke's truck after that test drive.

They probably didn't have to. Nothing happened in that truck except a test drive. Just fingerprints mixed in with everyone else's. There was a whole row of homes on a street near me that were broken into one day a few years ago. They weren't able to get one usable print from any of those houses.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Reading this article in msm is it not saying that LE disagrees with what the source is saying?

Yes, actually that was the source "who is not involved in the investigation". Det. Kavanagh denied what he had said about the possible motive.

But the lead investigator in the case denied that police were looking at the possibility the homicide may have been just for a thrill.

As for what the same source said about being killed in the truck, all Det. Kavanagh said was that he was targeted and likely died within hours of his disappearance.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I don't believe I have ever made any assumptions as to the level of intelligence DM had. I would say he knows how to conduct himself in a real estate transaction as pointed out by his agent on the farm and I would say based on my own investigations he knows how to buy and flip a property legally yet cost-effectively. That takes either some intelligence or good guidance IMO. But I have never made any claim as to his sensibility. In fact, I might even guess he may have lacked "street smarts" and a certain social instinct but I cannot base that on much.

If anyone else has made any claims as to DM being too intelligent, it is no different than your stating he is too confident. You can say it in light of your belief he is guilty and I can state whatever I want in light of my belief that there is a good chance he is not guilty.

I understand, but my conclusions (that he was overconfident and not particularly of above average intellect) are based on concrete information: the fact that he's been arrested for a murder in which he seemingly failed to cover his tracks very well.

The idea that he was framed seems to be based on, largely...the fact that he seemingly failed to cover his tracks very well. Which seems to imply an assumption that he is smarter than the average criminal, so would have covered his tracks, so must be innocent. I've been trying to backtrace the basis for this logic for a while now. It really stands out in this case; you typically don't see, on this site, a preponderance of evidence being pointed to as being in itself exculpatory.

 

[SnooperDuper]

They probably didn't have to. Nothing happened in that truck except a test drive. Just fingerprints mixed in with everyone else's. There was a whole row of homes on a street near me that were broken into one day a few years ago. They weren't able to get one usable print from any of those houses.

JMO

Well for a break in I would wear gloves. Test drive, not so much.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I understand, but my conclusions (that he was overconfident and not particularly of above average intellect) are based on concrete information: the fact that he's been arrested for a murder in which he seemingly failed to cover his tracks very well.

The idea that he was framed seems to be based on, largely...the fact that he seemingly failed to cover his tracks very well. Which seems to imply an assumption that he is smarter than the average criminal, so would have covered his tracks, so must be innocent. I've been trying to backtrace the basis for this logic for a while now. It really stands out in this case; you typically don't see, on this site, a preponderance of evidence being pointed to as being in itself exculpatory.

Dead on...perhaps people are expecting millionaires to stick to white collar crime, you know the usual fraud and stuff...?

 

[Alethea Dice]

Well for a break in I would wear gloves. Test drive, not so much.

They didn't wear gloves. There were prints, just none clear enough to do anything with. They were smudged and mixed in with the prints of the family members.

 

[Blomquist]

I agree, e.g., IMO I think that DM never hid his tattoos because he projected he would either leave the person alone (making him immemorable) or kill them (leaving no witness). He just wasn't smart enough to work out the details (e.g., SB seeing him)

I feel that because he had the tool to execute the perfect crime (the incinerator) he was overconfident in his other actions

It has been suggested that DM bought an incinerator to burn a body one year into the future.... it has also been suggested that he strategically planned this all in order to thrill himself with a kill..... It has also been suggested that he planned to hide the truck inside a trailer so as it could not be seen....

Yet he is also deemed to be stupid enough to not figure out any details such as disguising himself, and that he was stupid enough to leave all evidence at his own door....

So which is it??? Is he a clever strategic planner who planned a murder one year in advance....or is he a dumb stupid psychotic lunatic who can't even think to disguise himself and move evidence away from his door?

OR... is he being set up and was unaware of what was about to happen.... even if he had a sense that someone(s) was/were up to no good.....??

I choose the latter...

 

[Alethea Dice]

I understand, but my conclusions (that he was overconfident and not particularly of above average intellect) are based on concrete information: the fact that he's been arrested for a murder in which he seemingly failed to cover his tracks very well.

rsbm

Well, I guess, using that logic as concrete information, there are few murderers who are insecure and intelligent. Only the ones who don't get caught. The rest must have failed to cover their tracks as well since they were caught, so following the same logic, they must all be overconfident and below average intellect.

JMO

 

[Blomquist]

Good point, but I think by leaving the body on his own land DM thought he had better control of the situation, vs. leaving it on other's property where DM had absolutely no control over access. On his own property he had a vague expectation of privacy.

Oh I dont know... take a drive around Ontario... there are a gazillion places where one could find privacy..... Plenty of water, ponds lakes.... you name it...you can find it.

 

[Blomquist]

There was never an article that stated remains had been found in it, of any sort

I will try to find it....

 

[SnooperDuper]

It has been suggested that DM bought an incinerator to burn a body one year into the future.... it has also been suggested that he strategically planned this all in order to thrill himself with a kill..... It has also been suggested that he planned to hide the truck inside a trailer so as it could not be seen....

Yet he is also deemed to be stupid enough to not figure out any details such as disguising himself, and that he was stupid enough to leave all evidence at his own door....

So which is it??? Is he a clever strategic planner who planned a murder one year in advance....or is he a dumb stupid psychotic lunatic who can't even think to disguise himself and move evidence away from his door?

OR... is he being set up and was unaware of what was about to happen.... even if he had a sense that someone(s) was/were up to no good.....??

I choose the latter...

Maybe it took some time to get the guts up to actually act on the plan to make someone disappear and take their stuff. Maybe they were watching Fargo and smoking pot and the conversation twisted to the idea of incinerating someone to get rid of them, making the idea neither strategic nor clever in origin. I really do not think these guys are clever: they were way too obvious as they went about their crime. They didn't have enough criminal experience to cover the basics.

It's not necessary to disguise yourself if you think the only one who is going to see you is a victim who you intend to incinerate...and it seems many murderers hide bodies on their own property if they own some, because they have the most control over access to the disposal site then. So these things are not evidence of stupidity. I would say inexperience in the first case and normal strategy (for some murderers) in the second.

I think it is fair to say DM lacks experience killing people...???

 

[SnooperDuper]

I will try to find it....

There was, in the week TB was found, a flurry of news articles about additional remains (possibly human, possibly not) and a source that suggested that they had found a greater volume of remains than expected. But those rumours were subsequently quashed by LE.

 

[Archangel7]

They probably didn't have to. Nothing happened in that truck except a test drive. Just fingerprints mixed in with everyone else's. There was a whole row of homes on a street near me that were broken into one day a few years ago. They weren't able to get one usable print from any of those houses.

JMO

bbm
Not nearly an apples to apples comparison between B&E and Murder.

Those generally clear @ about 20% considering all geo areas, age groups and population densities. They simply don't get the effort and resources involved in clearing them as murder does. Property and burglary crime are heavily dependant on the quality of your Patrol Division also.


If 150 officers and other resources were allocated along with adding several other agencies as with the TB murder, the clearance by arrest would change dramatically on B&E also.

 

[ArianeEmory]

rsbm

Well, I guess, using that logic as concrete information, there are few murderers who are insecure and intelligent. Only the ones who don't get caught. The rest must have failed to cover their tracks as well since they were caught, so following the same logic, they must all be overconfident and below average intellect.

JMO

Seems legit.

 

[Blomquist]

Maybe it took some time to get the guts up to actually act on the plan to make someone disappear and take their stuff. Maybe they were watching Fargo and smoking pot and the conversation twisted to the idea of incinerating someone to get rid of them, making the idea neither strategic nor clever in origin. I really do not think these guys are clever: they were way too obvious as they went about their crime. They didn't have enough criminal experience to cover the basics.

It's not necessary to disguise yourself if you think the only one who is going to see you is a victim who you intend to incinerate...and it seems many murderers hide bodies on their own property if they own some, because they have the most control over access to the disposal site then. So these things are not evidence of stupidity. I would say inexperience in the first case and normal strategy (for some murderers) in the second.

I think it is fair to say DM lacks experience killing people...???

IMO thats one hell of a stretch !!! JMO

But I definitely agree with your last sentence..... because he has yet to kill anyone IMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

IMO thats one hell of a stretch !!! JMO

But I definitely agree with your last sentence..... because he has yet to kill anyone IMO

If you were to narrow it down to the one, strongest piece of evidence that shows DM didn't do this, what would it be?

 

[Alethea Dice]

bbm
Not nearly an apples to apples comparison between B&E and Murder.

Those generally clear @ about 20% considering all geo areas, age groups and population densities. They simply don't get the effort and resources involved in clearing them as murder does. Property and burglary crime are heavily dependant on the quality of your Patrol Division also.


If 150 officers and other resources were allocated along with adding several other agencies as with the TB murder, the clearance by arrest would change dramatically on B&E also.

I agree. But in that particular conversation we were talking about the Etobicoke truck, not the murder scene or TB's truck.

 

[expat cdn]

It has been suggested that DM bought an incinerator to burn a body one year into the future.... it has also been suggested that he strategically planned this all in order to thrill himself with a kill..... It has also been suggested that he planned to hide the truck inside a trailer so as it could not be seen....

Yet he is also deemed to be stupid enough to not figure out any details such as disguising himself, and that he was stupid enough to leave all evidence at his own door....

So which is it??? Is he a clever strategic planner who planned a murder one year in advance....or is he a dumb stupid psychotic lunatic who can't even think to disguise himself and move evidence away from his door?

OR... is he being set up and was unaware of what was about to happen.... even if he had a sense that someone(s) was/were up to no good.....??

I choose the latter...

DM didn't wait a year. He most likely used it initially on LB. JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

It's not necessary to disguise yourself if you think the only one who is going to see you is a victim who you intend to incinerate...and it seems many murderers hide bodies on their own property if they own some, because they have the most control over access to the disposal site then. So these things are not evidence of stupidity. I would say inexperience in the first case and normal strategy (for some murderers) in the second.

I think it is fair to say DM lacks experience killing people...???

The problem I have with this is that it really is just common sense, no matter your level of intelligence, that someone may see you if you walk right up to a family's home to take their truck on a test drive. Hiding the body on your own property may make sense to some for the control over it, if it's hidden or buried in your back yard. But, DM didn't live on that property to have that control and, as has been pointed out many times here, it's apparently perfectly normal in the country for neighbours to wander throughout your property when you're away. Add to that the fact that part of the farm was rented out, and the farmer renting the land could very well stumble over a body at any time.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

DM didn't wait a year. He most likely used it initially on LB. JMO

If that's the case, he should have known how to use it this time.

JMO

In the last few days, police sources had told CBC News they believed they had found other remains on the property, but they were unsure if they were animal or human.

On Tuesday, Hamilton police Sgt. Matt Kavanagh said, "We're dealing with one set of human remains."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/story/2013/05/21/waterloo-millard-police-still-searching-farm.html