Dellen Millard: Innocent Dupe? Alternative Theories

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This was stated by LE on May 14, fairly early in the investigation. I believe at that time, there was no evidence or proof of a connection.
My question is, Since that time, if LE did source a connection, would they be announcing it?

IMO, they would not as it would jeopardize the case.

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JMO, but I believe it was specifically the truck that they wanted. IMO, it had nothing to do with TB specifically. Three attempts at a test drive of Dodge Ram 3500's in 2 days. If it were a case of having a specific grudge against TB, why wouldn't they make it easier for themselves, and contact TB through his contracting business, with the 'lure' being that they have some work they need done at the hangar. The 3 test drives, in 2 days, all contacted through on-line ads is what makes it pretty obvious to me that it was about the truck, not TB. MOO :moo:

Hamilton police say a third man was contacted by Tim Bosma murder suspect Dellen Millard to arrange a test drive of a truck the man had advertised for sale online.
The third man was contacted on May 5, the same day an Etobicoke man took Millard and another man for a test drive in his truck.
All three men were advertising Dodge Ram 3500 trucks

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...ontacted-third-man-for-test-drive-police-say/
 
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...uilt-a-slave-trade-in-ontario/article4097573/

My thoughts are as follows: TB - hangar construction - family D. - DM
Is there something makes a sense???
What do you WS think?

Tim was in the HVAC trade, not construction. HTH
HVAC = Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning.

Personally my opinion, I do not believe TB was known to DM and MS prior to this case. I also do not think it was anything to do with OC which lead to TB's death. Simply DM and MS wanting TB's truck for whatever reason.

But I do think it's a possibility DM and/or MS may have been in someway connected to OC; drugs, sex trade? :moo:
 
I think they've generalized by using the term "in construction". Like drywalling or painting, I see HVAC as a specialized sub-category within the construction industry. Like a brain surgeon is a doctor but not all doctors are brain surgeons. JMO

Agreed..the terms are somewhat interchangeable. And it depends on what MSM articles you read as well..

"Bosma grew up in the Ancaster area, graduated from Ancaster High School, then trade school before starting his own business in heating and air conditioning. "

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...kester_storyteller_and_devout_family_man.html

I also seem to recall SB specifically saying "HVAC business" in one of her TV interviews. I think it was the Canada AM one.
 
Agreed..the terms are somewhat interchangeable. And it depends on what MSM articles you read as well..

"Bosma grew up in the Ancaster area, graduated from Ancaster High School, then trade school before starting his own business in heating and air conditioning. "

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...kester_storyteller_and_devout_family_man.html

I also seem to recall SB specifically saying "HVAC business" in one of her TV interviews. I think it was the Canada AM one.

“His kindness, his generosity, his willingness to help… those were all parts of Tim that we’re really carrying forward,” she said, noting that Tim worked as an HVAC technician and would often be out helping families late into the night, especially if they had young children.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/tim-bosma-s-widow-keeps-husband-s-spirit-alive-by-giving-back-1.1404069

Maybe part of the different reporting also came from the fact that he had built their home.

Even if she tries, she can’t escape memories of Tim, partly because of the house they built. Sharlene designed it with her mother, while Tim helped build it with many of his friends.

But it wasn’t finished yet. There is the front walkway that Tim was going to build this summer. There’s still only one phone jack in the house — Tim forgot to wire the house for phones. And the doorbell, which Sharlene just found in the basement on Monday, was never installed.

http://metronews.ca/news/hamilton/707787/tim-bosmas-family-struggles-to-accept-his-remains-home-heartbreakingly-in-a-small-box/

And because her father's in the development business.

JMO
 
For some reason, last night I got a niggling feeling that Tim's case will eventually tie in with the Rob Ford scandal. I am wondering if Tim did heating/AC work at one of these Dixon apts or crack joints. Perhaps, witnessed something he shouldn't have. Ie. wrong place, wrong time. There is no other motive besides a truck so far. These are just feelings, Nothing to really link it together yet. Hope its ok for me to post a theory.
 
For some reason, last night I got a niggling feeling that Tim's case will eventually tie in with the Rob Ford scandal. I am wondering if Tim did heating/AC work at one of these Dixon apts or crack joints. Perhaps, witnessed something he shouldn't have. Ie. wrong place, wrong time. There is no other motive besides a truck so far. These are just feelings, Nothing to really link it together yet. Hope its ok for me to post a theory.


Hi Flatbed, and welcome! Frankly, stranger things have happened. I think wrong place and wrong time might play into this case one way or another.
 
Too bad, I don't know connections, but timeline (1) is remarkable:

1.
http://www.thegridto.com/blog-post/the-emerging-ford-drama-in-chronological-order/
2.
http://www.citynews.ca/2013/11/07/timeline-rob-ford-video-scandal/
2.a
http://theweek.com/article/index/24...a-timeline-of-toronto-mayor-rob-fords-scandal

I would be glad, if that possibility would be checked thoroughly (from whom ever, LE or/and sleuthers). The environment of RF appears to be capable of anything. (Maybe, the husband of ex-politicians GS has been a victim too?)
As suspected longer time ago: Maybe, DM/MS have reasons to be afraid of a gang and therefore didn't make bail. If TB and his company unknowingly had some connections, SB could help now (if it's not too much to ask). :websleuther:
 
For some reason, last night I got a niggling feeling that Tim's case will eventually tie in with the Rob Ford scandal. I am wondering if Tim did heating/AC work at one of these Dixon apts or crack joints. Perhaps, witnessed something he shouldn't have. Ie. wrong place, wrong time. There is no other motive besides a truck so far. These are just feelings, Nothing to really link it together yet. Hope its ok for me to post a theory.

This is JMO, but I would think that anyone deeply involved in the drug trade would not just open up the phone book and pick a random contractor to come do repair work at their drug house. However, if that were the case, I would further venture to say they would make darn sure there was nothing lying around to be discovered, thus opening their operation up to be busted.
 
I just read an article about jfk, maybe tb figured out who the real killer was and Rob ford hired ms/dm to hide the secret.
Maybe not.. What I read from that article that I want to point out here is that to satisfy our personal mysteries we tend to resort to conspiracy because it brings order, things are Co tried and organized whereas a random killing denotes chaos and disorder, a premise that terrifies us all.

I highly doubt anything from the news (seemingly unrelated) will have any connections to TB. People have been murdered and robbed for $20.its not unlikely for someone to be murdered over a truck however terrifying that premise may be.
 
I just read an article about jfk, maybe tb figured out who the real killer was and Rob ford hired ms/dm to hide the secret.
Maybe not.. What I read from that article that I want to point out here is that to satisfy our personal mysteries we tend to resort to conspiracy because it brings order, things are Co tried and organized whereas a random killing denotes chaos and disorder, a premise that terrifies us all.

I highly doubt anything from the news (seemingly unrelated) will have any connections to TB. People have been murdered and robbed for $20.its not unlikely for someone to be murdered over a truck however terrifying that premise may be.


Funny enough, I feel the opposite way; that people want it to be a random senseless act that could happen to anyone at any time, so that they can feel that their boring lives may still hold an element of danger and excitement.

Usually when people are killed for $20, it is by people for whom $20 means something, and for whom $20 has enough value to get them their next fix or whatnot. I can see someone being murdered for a truck by someone who didn't already have a truck, but not by someone who had numerous trucks and could easily afford many more. People kill each other for a pair of shoes in real life, but usually those doing the killing are barefoot or the shoes are of a higher than normal value.

This was a lemon of a used truck, according to SB, and the person everyone is so sure did it is the one with a hanger full of valuable classic cars and other vehicles. Wouldn't it make more sense if it was MS who set out to steal a truck, since he doesn't already own several and apparently couldn't afford to buy even a lemon? But because he is not as photogenic, or from a quasi-famous family, and hasn't had 15 minutes of fame as a child, he is not the focus for everyone. Does anyone here actually think that DM was more likely to have killed TB than MS? And if so, I'd love to hear a reasonable explanation of why DM seems the more likely killer of the two.
 
This was a lemon of a used truck, according to SB, and the person everyone is so sure did it is the one with a hanger full of valuable classic cars and other vehicles.
<rsbm>

Do you believe MS is also responsible for the stolen Harley that was recovered in DM's hangar? Did DM just allow people to store stolen vehicles in his hangar and use his trailer to hide things in his mother's driveway?
 
It's also disingenuous to imply that DM didn't want or need the truck. He wanted the truck or a truck like it enough to expend much of his personal time driving around and lining up multiple test drives. We can debate the relative dollar value of the truck or its specific motor ad infinitum, but it clearly had value *to DM*, and it seems to me anything else is a dispute over trifles.

(Unless we are pursuing the theory that it wasn't even DM at any of the test drives. I assume at least some innocence proponents believe it wasn't really him, based on how many debates we've had on sleeve lengths and tattoo embellishments.)
 
I just read an article about jfk, maybe tb figured out who the real killer was and Rob ford hired ms/dm to hide the secret.
Maybe not.. What I read from that article that I want to point out here is that to satisfy our personal mysteries we tend to resort to conspiracy because it brings order, things are Co tried and organized whereas a random killing denotes chaos and disorder, a premise that terrifies us all.

I highly doubt anything from the news (seemingly unrelated) will have any connections to TB. People have been murdered and robbed for $20.its not unlikely for someone to be murdered over a truck however terrifying that premise may be.


:welcome6: MuhGruff!
BBM Agreed. IMO it is what it is. TB was murdered because of his truck and nothing more. People like to sensationalize these cases and think there just has to be more to the story then what it appears. Even when the facts are revealed people will still like to believe it's just not that simple and their is a conspiracy theory. Mr. Ford is now taking his lumps and rightfully so, lots of unfavorable information has come to light about his absurd, illegal and lying behaviour over the past years and I believe if there was any connection to him and TB, DM and MS, that would have be uncovered in the early days after Tim's murder or at least by now.

The population of TO is almost six million people. What are the odds these peoples' paths have ever crossed and they are connected; I would say about one in six million. Obviously Mr. Ford is not and was not well organized in hiding his pathetic past behaviours; matter of fact he was quite open and public about his unprofessional, illegal and preposterous actions or there would be not proof to back of his numerous, bald faced lies.

Not to mention, IF; and that's a big IF, there we this suggested connection, does one really believe the accused would not have revealed this to LE by now? Would they really take the fall for this joke of a mayor?! Some may say, well they feel safer in prison. I say IMPO, ridiculous. Ford is major headlines at present and the MSM is into revealing all the dirt they can bring forth on him now. All JMO.
 
Again, I believe that if someone has a chop shop, and a stolen vehicle, they do not have a problem. An actual chop shop would have had that truck stripped and shipped within hours of arrival, so that makes me think that the chop shop story was highly exaggerated. Logic dictates that if he felt the hanger would be searched, he would have moved all the incriminating evidence that he was aware of, not just some of it. So it would be reasonable to assume that whoever moved the truck was unaware of the supposedly stolen Harley, or they could have easily shovelled those parts into the trailer with the truck that they were also hiding. I guess, to answer your question SB, I do think, personally, that if I had many buildings and vehicles and lots of money and my friends did not, that when they asked me if they could use my hanger to store some stuff in, I'd say sure, no problem. I also think that if they asked me if they could borrow one of my many vehicles or money, I'd say yes, because otherwise, I think my friends would think I was a selfish prick if I said no every time they asked for something I have an abundance of.

I was not saying that the truck had no value or that DM didn't want one, but it would be an exaggeration to say that making 3 phone calls and 2 test drives was a lot of time to expend on buying a truck. It would actually be the normal procedure for buying a truck, would it not? What I was saying is that there is no motive for DM to steal a truck when he had plenty if money to buy one, and there are plenty of examples of him spending large amounts of money buying and modifying vehicles. My point was that I would think that someone who has no money and no vehicles would have far more reason to steal a truck than someone who does. And again, if stealing a truck was what they set out to do, why wouldn't they just steal it when no one was looking, like the majority of car thefts? If one goes in with the theory they they were car thieves running a chop shop, they would be expected to know better and easier and safer ways to steal a vehicle.

And I have to say, I still think that it is possible that DM was not at those test drives. I honestly don't think that LE even know for sure how many people were there that night, so how can we really trust that they know exactly who those people were for sure? Mistakes happen, especially early on in cases when there seems to be an avalanche of information. Some of that information is bound to be wrong, but in a high profile case such as this, I imagine that it is very hard and embarrassing for LE to go back and admit that they have made mistakes, in my opinion. I would still like to hear from anyone who thinks that DM was more likely to have killed TB than MS, and why they think that. Thanks in advance.
 
Again, I believe that if someone has a chop shop, and a stolen vehicle, they do not have a problem. An actual chop shop would have had that truck stripped and shipped within hours of arrival, so that makes me think that the chop shop story was highly exaggerated. Logic dictates that if he felt the hanger would be searched, he would have moved all the incriminating evidence that he was aware of, not just some of it. So it would be reasonable to assume that whoever moved the truck was unaware of the supposedly stolen Harley, or they could have easily shovelled those parts into the trailer with the truck that they were also hiding. I guess, to answer your question SB, I do think, personally, that if I had many buildings and vehicles and lots of money and my friends did not, that when they asked me if they could use my hanger to store some stuff in, I'd say sure, no problem. I also think that if they asked me if they could borrow one of my many vehicles or money, I'd say yes, because otherwise, I think my friends would think I was a selfish prick if I said no every time they asked for something I have an abundance of.

I was not saying that the truck had no value or that DM didn't want one, but it would be an exaggeration to say that making 3 phone calls and 2 test drives was a lot of time to expend on buying a truck. It would actually be the normal procedure for buying a truck, would it not? What I was saying is that there is no motive for DM to steal a truck when he had plenty if money to buy one, and there are plenty of examples of him spending large amounts of money buying and modifying vehicles. My point was that I would think that someone who has no money and no vehicles would have far more reason to steal a truck than someone who does. And again, if stealing a truck was what they set out to do, why wouldn't they just steal it when no one was looking, like the majority of car thefts? If one goes in with the theory they they were car thieves running a chop shop, they would be expected to know better and easier and safer ways to steal a vehicle.

And I have to say, I still think that it is possible that DM was not at those test drives. I honestly don't think that LE even know for sure how many people were there that night, so how can we really trust that they know exactly who those people were for sure? Mistakes happen, especially early on in cases when there seems to be an avalanche of information. Some of that information is bound to be wrong, but in a high profile case such as this, I imagine that it is very hard and embarrassing for LE to go back and admit that they have made mistakes, in my opinion. I would still like to hear from anyone who thinks that DM was more likely to have killed TB than MS, and why they think that. Thanks in advance.


I for one do not feel LE made any errors in the arrests which were made in this case, embarrassed or not they seek justice to put the actual murderers behind bars. It's been over six months now and has there been similar cases committed since? No there hasn't because the two who committed this crime are sitting in jail. We have different divisions, multiply officers, detectives, witnesses and other professionals in huge numbers investigating/working on this case. If it's not what is appears to be, I believe at least one of these people could change all that and make the truth known with their discovery/information. If one or both the accused are innocent they have the right to speak up. Both were visited by a female reporter and they could have blown this case wide open if they are being framed or wrongfully convicted. They both had the perfect opportunity and both refused. What does that tell you? MOO.

IMPO I do not believe Tim was murdered for his truck because DM couldn't afford one or was being frugal. It was done out of power, control and the need to destroy boundaries. To understand the other possible reasoning would be to understand certain mental health issues. Some time ago I had started a thread solely for the purpose of giving it IMHO justifiable consideration regarding DM and/or MS, but it became too controversial for some to handle or give consideration to. It is still MOO mental illness played a huge role in the thought process involving which ended in Tim's murder, the method in which the perps disposed of him and how they tried to deflect detection of their involvement all points to mental illness. Many people have mental health issues but they are not murderers, law breakers or bad in any way. There is something very different going on in a person's brain to allow them to commit murder and so brutally. The second article is a fantastic read regarding murderers, mental issues and the death penalty all rolled into one. All MOO.

It&#8217;s been documented that the central reasons people kill are for POWER and CONTROL.

Of the numerous personality disorders, statistics show that over 50% of Americans fit into one or more of the anti-social personality disorder classifications.

Dr. Ash also explains that these initial triggers can be exacerbated when ones natural inhibitions are removed (as with alcohol or mind-altering drugs). For instance, an otherwise rational person could act out inappropriate anger in the form of road rage while under the influence of a psychotropic drug.

Dr. Paul M has lectured that individual personality traits play a key role in how certain triggers can evolve into acts of violence and murder. Chronically aggressive individuals as well as those with opposite traits, such as overly suppressed hostility, can react similarly in threatening situations. And those that are emotionally resentful from a past severe hurt or trauma can become similarly and inappropriately aggressive in specific situations.


http://jamesjmurray.wordpress.com/2013/08/28/why-do-people-kill-2/


Are All Murderers Mentally Ill?
"You see, I truly believe that murderers are mentally ill," she explains. "Their brains don't work like the rest of ours do. To deliberately kill someone requires crossing a profound boundary. Most of us couldn't do it. We couldn't even think about it. But they can. They do. Why? Because they're mentally ill.

"Murderers seem to have no appreciation of boundaries," Sharp explains. "And it shows up in all aspects of their lives. Most criminals I deal with are very narcissistic. They're blame-shifters, manipulative, and can't feel anyone else's pain but their own. A consistent hallmark, in fact, particularly of killers, is this extreme narcissism." Sharp points to the book People of the Lie, by the late M. Scott Peck, as a good description of a killer's personality disorder.

"These people are always the victim, it's always someone else's fault, they have no sense of other people's boundaries, and they really can't see how twisted that view is," she says. "It's a disorder."


http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/12/are-all-murderers-mentally-ill/67295/
 
This was a lemon of a used truck, according to SB, and the person everyone is so sure did it is the one with a hanger full of valuable classic cars and other vehicles. Wouldn't it make more sense if it was MS who set out to steal a truck, since he doesn't already own several and apparently couldn't afford to buy even a lemon? But because he is not as photogenic, or from a quasi-famous family, and hasn't had 15 minutes of fame as a child, he is not the focus for everyone. Does anyone here actually think that DM was more likely to have killed TB than MS? And if so, I'd love to hear a reasonable explanation of why DM seems the more likely killer of the two.

rsbm

I would also love to hear those reasonings as to why DM seems the more likely of the two. It's MS who is into the gangsta lifestyle, who has the criminal history, who LE brought in the tactical unit to arrest, whose court appearance they brought in extra security for, whose arrest brought the statement that the danger to the public had ended. Everything that happened, in regards to DM, has the appearance of someone who was not worried about being identified, did not know what was going to happen, and had no idea what to do afterward which resulted in a lot of bad decisions.

JMO
 
If it's not what is appears to be, I believe at least one of these people could change all that and make the truth known with their discovery/information. If one or both the accused are innocent they have the right to speak up. Both were visited by a female reporter and they could have blown this case wide open if they are being framed or wrongfully convicted. They both had the perfect opportunity and both refused. What does that tell you? MOO.

rsbm

It tells me they're exercising their right to remain silent.

What to do if you are arrested...

You have a right to remain silent. Exercise it!

This is the number one most important thing you can do when you&#8217;re arrested, and it&#8217;s also the number one most common thing that people fail to do. Everyone has a natural desire to try to talk their way out of the situation. Even during investigative stages when you haven&#8217;t been placed under arrest, the best thing you can do is decline to give a statement to police.

Understand that when authorities ask you questions, they are doing so for the singular purpose of gathering evidence against you. Anything you tell police will be used against you in court. It will never help you. Even an outright denial can be used against you if you later want to explain your side of the story in court
.

http://www.law.uwo.ca/clinics_and_centres/community_legal_services/articles/what_to_do_if_you_are_arrested.html

There is a rationale for this and it is not the obstruction of lawful investigations. If you give a detailed, honest account of your actions, denying guilt of any crime, and are nonetheless charged, your convincing and heartfelt statement is unlikely to be heard by the jury. It is the prosecution, not the defence, which by law decides if a statement can be heard at trial. Thus, in a real sense, what you say to the police can hurt you, but not help you.

http://www.cbc.ca/thenational/blog/2012/06/what-to-do-when-the-police-want-to-talk-to-you.html

This one isn't Canadian, but it is 10 very good reasons to remain silent.

http://www.kirkpiccione.com/10-reasons-not-talk-police/

JMO
 
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