GUILTY Denmark - Kim Wall, 30, Copenhagen, 10 Aug 2017

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He claimed it was while dragging her up (with a rope) through a 7-9' long metal tube 2' in diameter with metal steps. I actually find this plausible - although I'm far from sure that's what happened.
But is it tights, pantyhose or underwear?

I think tights/pantyhose would remain stuck on your feet. If you're pulling a body up with rope, you'd tire it chest level. Why would your clothes come off? Maybe getting caught on something as you passed it?

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I do wonder if he think he is wiser than the police or if he is just a very sick man.
He might even think that the public is stupid, since he was so eager to tell his side of the story, hence the wish for an open court-meeting.

His defense-lawyer didnt do a very good job either in my opinion.
 
Ok this must be the last news for today:

http://nyheder.tv2.dk/krimi/2017-09...holder-flere-ting-hemmelige-trods-aabne-doere (In danish)

Prosecutor Jakob Buch-Jepsen was pleased with Peter Madsen's extension of his detention with four weeks.
Tuesday's hearing, which involved the extension of Peter Madsen's custody, had a bad start for the prosecutor's office.
The judge decided to open the doors, even though the prosecutor wanted them closed for further investigation of the killings of the Swedish journalist Kim Wall, for which Peter Madsen is charged.
But it was concluded that prosecutor Jakob Buch-Jepsen succeeded in convincing the judge to expand the murderous Peter Madsen's custody for another four weeks, and he also acknowledged that a mental investigation and a search of the sentenced computer were in place.
The prosecutor's office is obviously very pleased with this. A lot has happened in the case since the original constitutional hearing, and we have presented today, and the court has found, that there is a reasonable suspicion that he has committed murder on Kim Wall, he explained after the hearing.

- Would it be a Russian submarine?
Peter Madsen has acknowledged that Kim Wall died aboard Nautilus, but he claims that an accident occurred and he refused to have dismembered her.
That question raised Jakob Buch-Jepsen in court today, where he rhetorically asked if it might be a Russian submarine who was in charge of the party?
"You could say that if it's not Peter Madsen, who should it be?" And that's the way I came up with that example, he explained after the hearing.

Several things are kept secret for now
Jakob Buch-Jepsen also explained that he deliberately chose to make a more thorough hearing of Peter Madsen, as it was clear that the doors would be open.
"I could have chosen to ask fewer questions, but now you have had the opportunity to hear all of his explanation.

Jakob Buch-Jepsen did not want to explain why it is essential to search Peter Madsen's computer, just as he did not want to elaborate on details of Nautilus' sailing and concrete findings aboard the submarine. In addition, there are some damages to Kim Walls torso, which is kept secret for now.
- Partly because it could be a barrier to police investigation and, secondly, to avoid an unnecessary violation of Kim Walls relatives, Jacob Buch-Jepsen said.
 
well, 4½ hour court-meeting...phew.
There was a lot of information that we didnt already know, but I failed to see a smoking gun.
I hope the autopsy tells something that smells more of a direct evidence.

His explaination is not plausible though:
- Nylon-stockings dont just fall off.....they would be torn to pieces instead. They are very fragile.
- The missing saw.....and why should somebody say they saw him with it on his way to the submarine, if that isnt true.
- The tubes tied to the belt on the body that came from his workshop.
- He laid down to sleep......?
- The big locks of hair they found in the submarine is strange, because hair dont come off just because you get a bonk in your head.
- They also found a contact-lense??


Anyway, I do still think he planned it before they went. Some witnesses also described him as a guy with a dream of death and sex.
Creepy guy....

I really hope the police will be able to nail him.

It does seem more likely after today that he planned it. Maybe you have been right all along!

If he did, he is one sick individual - and quite dumb.

His story is all over the place, obviously he is still lying. The problem for PM is that he is no better at lying than a five year old.

He comes across shockingly immature - it is actually scary!

Have some more catching up to do, thanks all for posting material!
 
So her pantyhose and panties "slipped off" - sure, if he says so....

We can pretend we believe that, but what about the rest of her clothes? (Sorry if I have missed anything, still trying to catch up.)
 
Clothes don't fit a dead person well. If her tights catch on something as he pulls her up it's quite probable they will be ripped off.

Anyway, it does not really matter if we think this part is probable or not, there are far bigger holes in his story - in fact, the whole story is pretty rotten.

I never dressed or undressed a dead person, so wouldn´t know!

I would say that pantyhose and panties would stick to a body especially if there is blood and water.
 
I do wonder if he think he is wiser than the police or if he is just a very sick man.
He might even think that the public is stupid, since he was so eager to tell his side of the story, hence the wish for an open court-meeting.

His defense-lawyer didnt do a very good job either in my opinion.

Spot on, I agree with all here.

Have seen his lawyer on TV now, and I can´t count the times she said, "buried her at sea".
What an insult to Kim Wall, what an insult to her family!

I wanted to slap that lawyer.

All in all she had a hard time defending PM´s erratic version of events. Yes, lousy job.

Edit to add: she really stumbled when asked why PM refused a mental evaluation. It was err, ehm, can´t really say exactly why (clearly they had not discussed this, client and lawyer). But she ended up saying that by letting himself be committed to a mental institution(in reality he will be forced), he will have a chance to see some other walls than the ones he is staring at now.

LOL - a wall is a wall, happy to help! :p
 
Thanks for all the updates and translations! What a bizarre case.

I think the pantyhose and panties and whatever didn't just fall off, they were already off because either they had consensual sex or he took them off after she had died. He reportedly has a fascination with sex and death, so I think it's possible he did something after she was already dead (no need for being more detailed about this). I think he acted out some morbid fantasy ... (I feel bad thinking about things like that, it's so sick.)

What I don't really understand is why he dismembered her. (I don't believe he did not do that.) Did he dismember her in order to conceal some telltale signs on her body (for example signs of strangulation)? Did he think that several body parts would be less likely to be found, or decompose faster? (Btw are they still searching for the rest of her?)

I honestly believe this guy has a mental illness. Well they ordered a psych evaluation if I understood that right? So we will find out.

Ugh I'm shaking in disgust. Something really creepy about this guy!
 
^ I don't believe they had consensual sex. I think he forced himself on her. imo
 
Thanks for all the updates and translations! What a bizarre case.

I think the pantyhose and panties and whatever didn't just fall off, they were already off because either they had consensual sex or he took them off after she had died. He reportedly has a fascination with sex and death, so I think it's possible he did something after she was already dead (no need for being more detailed about this). I think he acted out some morbid fantasy ... (I feel bad thinking about things like that, it's so sick.)

What I don't really understand is why he dismembered her. (I don't believe he did not do that.) Did he dismember her in order to conceal some telltale signs on her body (for example signs of strangulation)? Did he think that several body parts would be less likely to be found, or decompose faster? (Btw are they still searching for the rest of her?)

I honestly believe this guy has a mental illness. Well they ordered a psych evaluation if I understood that right? So we will find out.

Ugh I'm shaking in disgust. Something really creepy about this guy!

I think he dismembered her for two reasons, one, he did not want her to be found. We can see that from the punctures he made on her torso to force air out of it so it would not float to the surface and by the belt with heavy objects attached he placed around her waist.
Two, he dismembered her body because it was difficult (impossible?) to get her body through the narrow opening to the submarine.

I don´t know if there still is an active search for the remaining parts of Kim Wall´s body.
Last week specially trained sniffer dogs who can detect dead bodies in water, even after years, were used.
No result.

I know that people in general are on the lookout.

Something else: I am now 99% sure that Peter Madsen murdered Kim Wall.
His story about how the hatch fell on her head is pretty much impossible. You´d open if first, then climb out - and no chance it would hit someone coming after you accidentally.
Prosecution claims he has two differing accounts of this - almost always a dead-giveaway.
And the only thing that could prove his account(s), her head, is missing.

What a total and utter mess he made of it all.
 
I think he dismembered her for two reasons, one, he did not want her to be found. We can see that from the punctures he made on her torso to force air out of it so it would not float to the surface and by the belt with heavy objects attached he placed around her waist.
Two, he dismembered her body because it was difficult (impossible?) to get her body through the narrow opening to the submarine.

RSBM

I don't think those are the reasons. For one, he could have punctured her torso without dismembering the rest of her body. And #2, I think when a torso fits through the opening, head, arms and legs would too. jmo
 
He claimed it was while dragging her up (with a rope) through a 7-9' long metal tube 2' in diameter with metal steps. I actually find this plausible - although I'm far from sure that's what happened.

So he expelled her like a torpedo through some tube or hatch? If this was an accidental injury he would have sailed immediately and called their version of 911 to meet him at shore. He is a liar a freak and now a killer
 
So he expelled her like a torpedo through some tube or hatch? If this was an accidental injury he would have sailed immediately and called their version of 911 to meet him at shore. He is a liar a freak and now a killer

You reach the conning tower through a long narrow tube. Peter Madsen claims he pulled the body up through this tube (same as you would enter/exit the submarine normally). However, he is smallish guy and I can't see him pulling 120lbs some 10-12 feet straight up.
 
I do believe that Kims murder was planned. I have updated my initial post with arguments for why I think it was planned to be these now 14 arguments (that I ofcourse only got from the news-channel and the news-media):

First the 10 arguments from before the courtmeeting sep. 5:

1: PM (Peter Madsen) has been dreaming of, for years, that he one day would make a huge happening where the police was chasing him for an unknown reason. Thats why his friends and family first thought that this was some kind of joke and that Kim would turn up after a few days or so, smiling and say haha this was just for fun, but now we know that she didnt.

2: He had often talked about that he made things happen if he could. Like "If I can do it then I will do it".

3: He had some events arranged the day after the murder, that he for unknown reasons had cancelled, before he went on the trip with Kim. Update - He say in his statement on the courtmeeting yesterday that he had been stressed out lately so he didnt felt like going through with that.

4: He sank his submarine at the same moment when someone spotted him, which makes me think that he wasnt finished with erasing the clues in the boat. Its like that when someone approached him and said "hey there you are" then he just made the boat go poof. Took only 30 sec and he apparently knew it was possible to do that fast and also needed to do. He had probably been thinking about doing that before he was spottet. It was not an act of panic, I bet.

5: His first statements was totally lies about leaving her somewhere at the exact time where she had to be home or had to contact her boyfriend, so he had thought about timing. Too much thinking for a man in panic. As the evidence showed up, he did have to change his statements though. There was survaillance-cameraes at the place he said he dropped her off, which he apparently didnt know about, so that ruined his initial statement and probably his whole plan, because it could be proved that she wasnt present on the place, when he said she would be.

6: He did also claim at first that Kim was there to do an interview on him and his submarine, and that it was a magazine called "Wired" that should be the media to publish it. Danish journalists had contacted that magazine and asked if they knew anything about that and their response was that they havent heard about it at all. So why was she there, then? Update - We still dont know what media she was reporting for, I think.

7: He dismembered the body, which in my opinion is a strange act IF he was in panic, because I would have thought that the first panic-ish thought must have been to just throw the body over board, but a policeman told our news-channel that it might be possible for people in a total state of panic to do such things, though its very rare. Update - He now claims that it wasnt him that dismembered the body, and the prosecutor did make a joke of it by asking if he then thought it had been a russian submarine that have brought up the body and dismembered it....

8: This is what made me think it was planned. He punctured the body so that the gasses could be let out, so the body didnt float to the suface. Who on earth do think about that in a state of panic? I really do believe that this has been researched before he even went on that trip with her. Update - There is now a witness that has told the police that he, before the trip, did have a conversation with a friend about how to make sure a body dont flow to the surface and where the friend told him about puncturing it.

9: When he got ashore he was interviewed and he did NOT act like he had just been experiencing something very cruel. Not at all. He just babbled about how sad he was about the submarine and that he had a failure that made it sink. No signs of shock or nervousity or anything that showed his distress. Update - He now claims that he was in a suicidal psychosis, which he apparently is extremly good at hiding for others to see.

10: The police did immidiately arrest him for murder when he came ashore. We still dont know why they already, at that point, thought of that, but something must have told them that there was something wrong.

New arguments after the courtmeeting sep. 5:

11: The missing saw. A witness had told the police that they have seen PM walking towards the submarine with a saw in his hand, before the trip. His respons to that is that he believes that the saw is at his workshop so it cant be true, but the police cant find it there.

12: The tubes. When the police found the torso, a belt was tied to the stomach and several cut off tubes was tied to the belt, apparently to weigh her down. Those tubes does according to the police come from his workshop where he use those, and they also believe that the tubes were cut in half on his metal-cutting-machine in the workshop. PM claims that its always someone else that uses that machine, not himself.

13: The dream of death and sex. A witness has told the police that he dreamed of death and sex. He is also wellknown in the more kinky groups in denmark, and can have refined his kinky needs to end up with a dream of death and sex. PM did confirm that his circles was in the kinky category.

14: PM has refused that the police examined his computer. He insisted on sitting next to the police when they looked at it, because there are confidential dokuments on, as he claims. Maybe there are traces of him googling stuff that helps his planning, or maybe even incriminating pictures on, that he dont want the police to see. The court did allow the police to search his computer without PM there, so maybe we will know more about that soon.


There are a lot more arguments about all this, but its more pointing towards that he did kill her, and I only list arguments that IMO shows that he planned it before the trip.
 
The accident.

Peter Madsen' story about an accident might seem plausible at first (strictly from a theoretical standpoint). It's technically possible a 140lbs iron hatch would crack a skull if it slammed down on it. However, the only way to enter/exit through such a hatch would be to open if fully, so the weight is resting on the deck (otherwise you would have to hold 140lbs while you enter/exit). There is no lock mechanism to hold the hatch open; the weight is enough. The picture below shows the deck hatch open (I do not have a picture of the conning tower hatch, but they are identical).

https://imgur.com/a/zu2uv

Peter Madsen has told two versions of this story. One is that he slipped and dropped the hatch, the other that hatch slammed for unspecified reasons (ship movement is implied). The hatch cannot hold itself in the halfway position. If would either fall shut, or fall fully open. The only way Peter Madsen's claim could be true, is if he opened it fully and climbed through, then lifted and held the hatch while Kim Wall climbed up the ladder. The only reason anyone would do this is probably to slam it over someones head. My guess is that either he actually did this (slammed it over her head on purpose), or the hatch played no role in Kim Wall's death.

The prosecution didn't reveal any result from forensic investigation of the hatch. Neither did they reveal if they looked into previous hatch accidents (has it ever just slammed shut? if it can kill someone it has likely injured people before).

From yesterdays hearing this is how I read the case. Peter Madsen had for some time entertained violent fantasies (of a sexual nature). A witness claimed she felt they had intensified lately. I don't think Peter Madsen specifically planned to kill Kim Wall, but he likely had fantasies about killing someone in UC3 Nautilus (if the tubes used to weigh down the torso came from his workshop, he would have cut them and placed them in the submarine earlier). He had contacted a woman out of the blue (she and her friend had spontaneously been invited for a dive two months earlier, but neither knew Peter Madsen in any way), and asked if she wanted to go for a dive (two days before sailing out with Kim Wall). I believe he enjoyed toying with the idea of killing someone and getting away with it, but that he (probably) thought it was pure fantasy and under control (this isn't an uncommon start for rapists and murderers). During the trip with Kim Wall he lost control and killed her spontaneously (fulfilling the fantasy he had nurtured for some time). There is a saying in the military: No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy. From the moment he killed Kim Wall, Peter Madsen had little idea what to do. He might have gone through the scenario in his head before, but it probably bore little resemblance to the actual act of killing. Whatever plan he thought he had must have been dropped. Otherwise he wouldn't have sailed around for so long even the maritime rescue services were looking for him (he was missing for more than 12 hours). Rather than having a cunning plan, Peter Madsen was/is making it up as he goes along. Yet, for some reason he cannot bring himself to admit to dismembering Kim Wall (even if it would negate the main piece of circumstantial evidence for murder). This might be because he doesn't want people to see him as someone who could chop up a human body. The psychological evaluation will likely reveal that Peter Madsen has an inflated sense of himself (and a very low view of others). Peter Madsen probably still think he will get away with it,and showed signs of annoyance when the prosecution asked to weak points in his story (Especially anything sexual related to Kim Wall).

Note about the "buried at sea" story. While we can all agree his story doesn't constitute a burial in any way, there is a bit which seemed to be overlooked. If we follow Peter Madsen's story, he became suicidal and decided to end his life by drowning in UC3 Nautilus. Peter Madsen claims he didn't feel Kim Wall deserved to be entombed with him in the submarine. Of course the story makes little sense when considering the dismemberment, but in his mind it was almost a noble act and it explains why he dumped the body (not to hide it, but so it shouldn't be lost and forgotten in a submarine wreck). Needless to say it makes little sense, but it's important to his story.
 
I do believe that Kims murder was planned. I have updated my initial post with arguments for why I think it was planned to be these now 14 arguments (that I ofcourse only got from the news-channel and the news-media):

First the 10 arguments from before the courtmeeting sep. 5:

1: PM (Peter Madsen) has been dreaming of, for years, that he one day would make a huge happening where the police was chasing him for an unknown reason. Thats why his friends and family first thought that this was some kind of joke and that Kim would turn up after a few days or so, smiling and say haha this was just for fun, but now we know that she didnt.

2: He had often talked about that he made things happen if he could. Like "If I can do it then I will do it".

3: He had some events arranged the day after the murder, that he for unknown reasons had cancelled, before he went on the trip with Kim. Update - He say in his statement on the courtmeeting yesterday that he had been stressed out lately so he didnt felt like going through with that.

4: He sank his submarine at the same moment when someone spotted him, which makes me think that he wasnt finished with erasing the clues in the boat. Its like that when someone approached him and said "hey there you are" then he just made the boat go poof. Took only 30 sec and he apparently knew it was possible to do that fast and also needed to do. He had probably been thinking about doing that before he was spottet. It was not an act of panic, I bet.

5: His first statements was totally lies about leaving her somewhere at the exact time where she had to be home or had to contact her boyfriend, so he had thought about timing. Too much thinking for a man in panic. As the evidence showed up, he did have to change his statements though. There was survaillance-cameraes at the place he said he dropped her off, which he apparently didnt know about, so that ruined his initial statement and probably his whole plan, because it could be proved that she wasnt present on the place, when he said she would be.

6: He did also claim at first that Kim was there to do an interview on him and his submarine, and that it was a magazine called "Wired" that should be the media to publish it. Danish journalists had contacted that magazine and asked if they knew anything about that and their response was that they havent heard about it at all. So why was she there, then? Update - We still dont know what media she was reporting for, I think.

7: He dismembered the body, which in my opinion is a strange act IF he was in panic, because I would have thought that the first panic-ish thought must have been to just throw the body over board, but a policeman told our news-channel that it might be possible for people in a total state of panic to do such things, though its very rare. Update - He now claims that it wasnt him that dismembered the body, and the prosecutor did make a joke of it by asking if he then thought it had been a russian submarine that have brought up the body and dismembered it....

8: This is what made me think it was planned. He punctured the body so that the gasses could be let out, so the body didnt float to the suface. Who on earth do think about that in a state of panic? I really do believe that this has been researched before he even went on that trip with her. Update - There is now a witness that has told the police that he, before the trip, did have a conversation with a friend about how to make sure a body dont flow to the surface and where the friend told him about puncturing it.

9: When he got ashore he was interviewed and he did NOT act like he had just been experiencing something very cruel. Not at all. He just babbled about how sad he was about the submarine and that he had a failure that made it sink. No signs of shock or nervousity or anything that showed his distress. Update - He now claims that he was in a suicidal psychosis, which he apparently is extremly good at hiding for others to see.

10: The police did immidiately arrest him for murder when he came ashore. We still dont know why they already, at that point, thought of that, but something must have told them that there was something wrong.

New arguments after the courtmeeting sep. 5:

11: The missing saw. A witness had told the police that they have seen PM walking towards the submarine with a saw in his hand, before the trip. His respons to that is that he believes that the saw is at his workshop so it cant be true, but the police cant find it there.

12: The tubes. When the police found the torso, a belt was tied to the stomach and several cut off tubes was tied to the belt, apparently to weigh her down. Those tubes does according to the police come from his workshop where he use those, and they also believe that the tubes were cut in half on his metal-cutting-machine in the workshop. PM claims that its always someone else that uses that machine, not himself.

13: The dream of death and sex. A witness has told the police that he dreamed of death and sex. He is also wellknown in the more kinky groups in denmark, and can have refined his kinky needs to end up with a dream of death and sex. PM did confirm that his circles was in the kinky category.

14: PM has refused that the police examined his computer. He insisted on sitting next to the police when they looked at it, because there are confidential dokuments on, as he claims. Maybe there are traces of him googling stuff that helps his planning, or maybe even incriminating pictures on, that he dont want the police to see. The court did allow the police to search his computer without PM there, so maybe we will know more about that soon.


There are a lot more arguments about all this, but its more pointing towards that he did kill her, and I only list arguments that IMO shows that he planned it before the trip.


11: According to the court transcript the witness saw Peter Madsen walk towards the workshop with the saw (earlier the same day).

(17:06) http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/article6806629.ece

12: the police didn't claim the tubes came from the workshop, but said there were similar tubes in the workshop from where the weight-tubes could have been cut.

This should be possible to prove, and possibly the prosecution already hold this evidence, but chose not to disclose it at this point. At the hearing they only need to reveal enough evidence to justify continued pretrial detention. That was pretty much guaranteed, so I believe they withheld quite a bit of information.
 
11: According to the court transcript the witness saw Peter Madsen walk towards the workshop with the saw (earlier the same day).

(17:06) http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/article6806629.ece

12: the police didn't claim the tubes came from the workshop, but said there were similar tubes in the workshop from where the weight-tubes could have been cut.

This should be possible to prove, and possibly the prosecution already hold this evidence, but chose not to disclose it at this point. At the hearing they only need to reveal enough evidence to justify continued pretrial detention. That was pretty much guaranteed, so I believe they withheld quite a bit of information.

About 11: I noticed that too, that Ekstra Bladets reporter wrote "towards the workshop", but a TV2-news reporter that also had been in the courtroom, told after the meeting that he walked "towards the submarine", which makes more sense to me because its not really relevant that he walked towards the workshop. Its much more circumstantial that he walked towards the submarine.

12: It could be worded that the police think that its the same type of tubes then.
 
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