Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 1

[Searchfortruth]

Re bold. I never thought about that before. I've always just assumed CA, GA, and Lee all decided that KC had kept Tony completely in the dark and therefore that he knew nothing. But of course they would never have just dismissed him because he alone had been in constant association for KC for the last crucial month. I wouldn't have either, now that you mention it.

So what's the explanation, do you think?

I can only think of 3 possibilities off-hand, but perhaps others here can think of many more. My 3 thoughts are that LE seemed to regard Tony as a totally reliable ally from the beginning which could have made GA and CA instinctively mistrust him??

Or...they did try to include him but he refused to talk to anyone except LE??

Or...GA & CA were already subconsciously placing the blame for Casey's current behavior "her new group of unsuitable friends."

I lean towards, CA and GA were placing blame on the bad "new friends" very soon after KC was arrested. I always thought the meeting CA called, of the friends of KC, was extremely weird and sinister. There's no other way to describe it, I doubt most people would even think of calling the friends, possible witnesses, to a criminal investigation, over for a meeting of the minds. I believe CA was looking for people, friends, to lay blame on from the very beginning, or very soon after.

 

[jujube]

Perhaps the classic case of too little too late...

Cindy should not feel guilty for finally taking action - she quite possibly should feel guilty for year of inaction. I find it hard to feel sorry for Cindy - no matter how hard I try. She is not responsbile for the death of Caylee for sure but I believe she is responsible for enabling KC's behaviour.
I will totally feel sorry for her and gladly take back my sentiments if someone can indicate to me that she and George have had family therapy and mental health professionals involved over the years.

If they have had help and tried to take advantage of professional intervention then like I said I will take back every word and ask for forgiveness. I just havent been able to determine if they have had that sort of help.

I believe Cindy has covered up for KC for years. It seems that anything that doesnt fit with Cindy's version of what a family should be does not exist. George silently colludes. The rules are rigid - the family is enmeshed. KC is like the whirling dervish - exhausting to try to keep up with her - I get that. Living with a mentally ill person must be incredably challenging. Hats off to anyone who copes with this. The family needed help. The family needed to get help. If they did not get help then to me its like knowing your child is physically ill and choosing not to go to the doctor - just convincing yourself that its just a cold or even denying that your child is ill period! When you finally go to the doctor and find out that the child's health is now at serious risk is the parent to blame? The parent didnt cause the illness, but not getting treatment exacerbated it... I know it is not that black and white when it comes to mental illness so perhaps the analogy is not totally fair. And yes, it was not just Cindy - everyone has their role to play...

It seems like Lee is willing to risk his future with criminal charges and George seeks death as an escape from his pain... Do they all engage in a conspiracy of silence and denial? It seems so odd to me. I understand supporting family and wanting to stand behind your daughter but I also understand the risk of wearing blinders.

But whatever Cindy may or may not have done one thing cannot be denied. She loved Caylee. The sheer panic in her voice when she contacted the police (in contrast to KC's almost matter of fact, informational tone) was real. I commend Cindy for that.

Sorry for the rant

We don't know that Cindy covered for years.
During questioning, George said something must have happened 2 years previously because this was when Casey started lying about her job. Jesse Grund also made a comment in an interview that Casey was a very good mother but something must have happened to change her.

 

[Searchfortruth]

Do we know if TL went to the group meeting at the A's to discuss the case early on?

Hi Paintr, I thought I remembered CA saying in one of the LE interviews that TL was not at the "meeting". I believe she said RM was there, oh she also mentioned that RM was not socializing much with the group...maybe because he didn't know the "old friends" ? That's when EVERYTHING wrong in CA's mind was a "red flag", like RM not socializing at get together, and everything right or not suspicious was NOT a red flag, like KC hanging out at the Hard Rock socializing with friends and a nanny that noone has ever met.

 

[azwriter]

Yes, everytime CA/KC try to talk, there is an agrument...........
as we see and hear of the tapes at jail.
I also noticed CA controls and when she says 'sweetheart' it is demeaning, sarcastic.
CA is the Genisis that LP talks about...............and then comes KC, LA and broke GA's manhood.............IMO

good summary passionflower. I think Casey and Cindy argued and fought all the time, mainly about Casey's mothering skills.
Can you imagine how really stressful it was for Casey, who didn't want to keep her child, to have her mother constantly pointing out what a bad mother she was. On top of it, I imagine there was constant friction between the two women about Casey's lack of honesty and responsibility.
But I think Cindy wanted it both ways. She demanded Casey be a responsible single mother who was independent, hold down a job and make her daughter her number one priority.
But at the same time I see Cindy using her power over her daugher by constantly bailing Casey out everytime she messed up - stealing, lying, sneaking, whatever.
From her mother, Casey received no direction, only confusion and Cindy enabling her. I see Cindy revolving betweenin two roles: both controlling parent and savior to Casey. It may have been the pattern Cindy was raised with. All of it is a shame with Caylee paying the price.
jmo

 

[jademonkey]

I lean towards, CA and GA were placing blame on the bad "new friends" very soon after KC was arrested. I always thought the meeting CA called, of the friends of KC, was extremely weird and sinister. There's no other way to describe it, I doubt most people would even think of calling the friends, possible witnesses, to a criminal investigation, over for a meeting of the minds. I believe CA was looking for people, friends, to lay blame on from the very beginning, or very soon after.

I agree that CA and GA were placing blame on the bad "new friends", I believe they even said that. I don't agree about the meeting of the friends being a weird thing. If I was in their shoes, daughter in jail and grandaughter missing, presumably kidnapped not dead that I would want to talk to anyone that could help. Maybe they thought they would have clues or answers to their questions. Imagine waking up and finding out your granddaughter is missing for a month, your daughter didn't notify anyone. She didn't have a job for the past 2 years like you thought, her nanny doesn't exist(after you've spent day's waiting for her to get home because nanny was in an accident, she's stealing money etc....wake up to all that and tell me you wouldn't want to talk to the people she's been hanging out with to try to find some answers? I know I would, sinister or not I would want to talk to everyone of them. Without them there is no time line or truth. Casey's time line has her in a different city the whole past month with a nanny that never existed and a child that no longer existed. Casey wasn't then or ever going to give them the truth, I think they had no choice but to go the people that may have some "truthful" answers. IMHO:furious:

 

[azwriter]

Ah ha, that one! LOL But that only works when it's established you aren't at home. If they know you're home, you're vulnerable to the dreaded comback: "Oh, do you want to change phones (or plug it in) and call me back?"



It is rather surprising.

Here's something else I've always wanted to bring up because I sense it offers a morsel of additional psychological insight into the KC-CA relationship.

I just don't know how to interpret it, but here it is for everyone's consideration and input: On July 15th, at Tony's apartment, when Cindy ordered KC to get her things and come with her, why did KC obey the command to leave with her?

KC surely knew what was ultimately in store for her if she went with Cindy and of course she also knew Caylee was dead. We've all witnessed how ruthlessly, mean, and ferociously defiant KC can be to Cindy (and LE for that matter.)

In view of the above, why did KC let Cindy make her leave Tony's? KC surely knew that she had every legal right to say, "I'm a grown woman, mother, and Caylee is my daughter, not yours. I don't want her around you (and Dad) any more because this is the way you behave. Now, leave before I call the police." And because KC's a crafty "diabolical" liar, she could have added, "I'll let you see Caylee tomorrow afternoon."

And then she could have borrowed or stolen money from Tony and split, or hidden and stalled for weeks while she thought out her strategy or perfected her story. Remember, she still had a couple hundred dollars of Amy's to use for a bus ticket out of town, and once there, she could have landed a job in one day (as a waitress or whatever).

Why do you think that, instead, she chose to let Cindy "lead her to the slaughter" (in KC's view LOL) After all, no one knew better than KC the lengths to which Cindy would go to make Casey bend, or the kind of tactics, Cindy was capable of employing, especially where Caylee's wellbeing was involved.

What do you think the answer to that is? No matter what the answer is, I think it's more relevant than we might have imagined until now. Of course, I'm frequently wrong about nearly everything associated with this case--but what the h*ll, we have the time and the brains to come up with some viable theories. :blowkiss:

It's just a guess on my part, but Casey went along willingly with her mother becaused she was embarassed her mother was making this public in front of her friends. She left to keep the others in the apartment from seeing the highly disfunctional relationship she had with her mom. Who knows what tales Casey told her friends about her life with Cindy.
jmo

 

[Searchfortruth]

I agree that CA and GA were placing blame on the bad "new friends", I believe they even said that. I don't agree about the meeting of the friends being a weird thing. If I was in their shoes, daughter in jail and grandaughter missing, presumably kidnapped not dead that I would want to talk to anyone that could help. Maybe they thought they would have clues or answers to their questions. Imagine waking up and finding out your granddaughter is missing for a month, your daughter didn't notify anyone. She didn't have a job for the past 2 years like you thought, her nanny doesn't exist(after you've spent day's waiting for her to get home because nanny was in an accident, she's stealing money etc....wake up to all that and tell me you wouldn't want to talk to the people she's been hanging out with to try to find some answers? I know I would, sinister or not I would want to talk to everyone of them. Without them there is no time line or truth. Casey's time line has her in a different city the whole past month with a nanny that never existed and a child that no longer existed. Casey wasn't then or ever going to give them the truth, I think they had no choice but to go the people that may have some "truthful" answers. IMHO:furious:

I can certainly see your point, but at this same time they were being questioned by LE. I would think the calling of a meeting would be brushing a little too close to an investigation.

 

[Lexington]

I can certainly see your point, but at this same time they were being questioned by LE. I would think the calling of a meeting would be brushing a little too close to an investigation.

I would think so too. Also, LA's and JG's side investigation. I wonder if LE knew about all this "investigating" at the time, or found out about it later. Seems to me that they were all acting as though they were smarter than LE.

 

[RIVERBABE60]

As Friday pointed out, Casey could've just told Cindy to leave and not gone home with her, as she is an adult. IMHO, I think Casey was caught off guard when Cindy showed up at TL's. She knew Cindy didn't know where Tony's apartment was and never dreamed AH would take Cindy over there, and Casey didn't want TL to know or overhear all her lies Cindy was about to spill out in front of them. IMO, I think after Caylee died, Casey was just "hiding out" at TL's till she could get the military guy in California to buy into her "I need to tell you something", so he'd send her money to disappear in California. Luckily, the guy in California didn't "bite".

 

[Theonly1]

It's just a guess on my part, but Casey went along willingly with her mother becaused she was embarassed her mother was making this public in front of her friends. She left to keep the others in the apartment from seeing the highly disfunctional relationship she had with her mom. Who knows what tales Casey told her friends about her life with Cindy.
jmo

Also, since Casey had NEVER told Cindy about TonyL, Casey probably never thought Cindy would discover where she was! Once Mamma Cin showed up at the door with Amy in tow maybe Casey wasn't thinking straight and just decided to go with Mamma to avoid a fight in front of TonyL (especially since Caylee was gone and Cindy could have freaked out right there about Caylee). I find it strange that Cindy did not mention Caylee at that point and Cindy said in a police interview that because they were smoking inside she knew Caylee was not in there.

 

[Theonly1]

As Friday pointed out, Casey could've just told Cindy to leave and not gone home with her, as she is an adult. IMHO, I think Casey was caught off guard when Cindy showed up at TL's. She knew Cindy didn't know where Tony's apartment was and never dreamed AH would take Cindy over there, and Casey didn't want TL to know or overhear all her lies Cindy was about to spill out in front of them. IMO, I think after Caylee died, Casey was just "hiding out" at TL's till she could get the military guy in California to buy into her "I need to tell you something", so he'd send her money to disappear in California. Luckily, the guy in California didn't "bite".

:clap:

 

[RIVERBABE60]

God works in mysterious ways....Cindy showed up at TL's on 7/15 to find Caylee just in the nick of time IMO. Casey had done her dirty work and tried to bury Caylee's body in the woods behind her house, and was planning her get-away/disappearance to California when Cindy showed up. Casey knew her time with TL was limited as eventually he'd wonder where Caylee was. Casey's only way to get out of all this was to disappear. She still had some of the stolen money from Amy in her wallet and was just waiting to see if the guy in California would listen to her story "I have to tell you something" and invite her to California and take care of her. I'm not sure if he even knew Caylee ever existed, which would be an "easy out" for Casey if she could get him to take her in once in California. I can just hear the story she was going to feed to him.

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

God works in mysterious ways....Cindy showed up at TL's on 7/15 to find Caylee just in the nick of time IMO. Casey had done her dirty work and tried to bury Caylee's body in the woods behind her house, and was planning her get-away/disappearance to California when Cindy showed up. Casey knew her time with TL was limited as eventually he'd wonder where Caylee was. Casey's only way to get out of all this was to disappear. She still had some of the stolen money from Amy in her wallet and was just waiting to see if the guy in California would listen to her story "I have to tell you something" and invite her to California and take care of her. I'm not sure if he even knew Caylee ever existed, which would be an "easy out" for Casey if she could get him to take her in once in California. I can just hear the story she was going to feed to him.

Interesting!

I had never really thought about it in this way.....that KC felt her time with TonE was very limited......her new friends were only temporary.

TonE would eventually wonder where her 2/almost 3 year old daughter was. Her parents would probably try to locate her. LA would probably try to convince her to come home. She had to know it was all eventually going to catch up with her. You just don't disappear with a child and think no one will try to figure it out.

The only way to fix the terrible mess she was in was to flee. She was probably trying to patiently wait for the right opportunity....just like her plan to kill Caylee in the first place. Probably waiting for the courage to do it in the heat of the moment.

Of course, CA ruined that plan and she didn't have the opportunity to get out of town, thus the ZFG nanny did it came to light. She needed "just one more day" to leave.

 

[Lexington]

snipped
I find it strange that Cindy did not mention Caylee at that point and Cindy said in a police interview that because they were smoking inside she knew Caylee was not in there.

I somehow missed this statement. Did LE laugh in her face? Knowing what they knew. The "Mother of the Year" would never let anyone smoke in front of Caylee? And look what she ended up doing to her.

 

[karenz]

From the Cell Phone Ping analysis provided by Theonly1:

6/15
2:45 AM Casey Anthony cellphone pings Casey seems to be in area of AL until 2:45 p.m.
3:35 p.m. Casey Anthony cellphone pings Someone at Anthony house calls Casey's cellphone (37 seconds)
5:00 PM Casey Anthony cellphone pings Casey calls Anthony house 3.5 minutes
7:10 PM Casey Anthony cellphone pings Casey calls Anthony house
7:30 PM Casey Anthony cellphone pings Casey pinging from Anthony house

6/16
1:00 AM Casey Anthony cellphone pings Shows Casey pinging at or near the Anthony house during the morning hours
3:08 AM Casey Anthony cellphone pings Casey call to AL
7:45 AM Casey Anthony cellphone records Call from Anthony House Phone that goes into Casey's VM

I have always found it telling that soneone at the Anthony house called KC's cellphone at 7:45 am. I suspect it was Cindy looking for Casey when she discovered she was NOT home with Caylee. I think George was just confused when he thought he saw them leave together on the 16th. They all originally thought the 9th, so how could he be sure on the 16th date? I think he was confused, not necessarly lying.

The 7:45 am call was KC checking her voice mail from the house phone. The calls are registered at the exact same time and seconds. This is the way the cell phone company logs the minute charges for checking your voicemail. It was one call. That call always bothered me until I figured that out.

 

[RIVERBABE60]

The 7:45 am call was KC checking her voice mail from the house phone. The calls are registered at the exact same time and seconds. This is the way the cell phone company logs the minute charges for checking your voicemail. It was one call. That call always bothered me until I figured that out.

I tend to more agree with VickiInLongwood's theory that it was Cindy, not Casey checking her cell phone's voicemail. Why would Casey check her voicemail from the home phone when she can do it from her cell phone?

 

[RIVERBABE60]

If Casey left the night of 6/15th, rather than the 16th at noon, like George thought, Casey could've shut her cell phone off so Cindy wouldn't call her. Whenever you shut your cell phone off, your call automatically goes to voicemail without ringing.

 

[tx_Dot]

I'm sure you have already read my thoughts on Cindy and Casey's relationship. And I have a feeling you have a bit more insight into their relationship then you are letting on :blowkiss:. Cindy is a sick b!tch, IMO- Casey may be the one who eneded up killing her child but Cindy is just as messed up IMO and that is why Casey went running home every time mommy told her to, including that last time. IMO. moo.

KC didn't even "get her things", like Cindy told her too.

KC's 'plan' was prolly to tell a few lies, & get back to playing 'house' with Tony.......when that wasn't working she asked for 'one more day', & prolly woulda been gone.

What 'other times' has KC run back home like mommy said?

 

[tx_Dot]

I think KC left with CA so willingly as to not have her momma running off at the mouth about just getting the car back from the tow yard. IIRC, KC told TonE that GA was to pick up the car and take it to the shop. She had two different story lines running and couldn't risk them intersecting. MOO...

I agree with all of the above, I also think AH was a factor in her leaving as well....Since AH was with Cindy, maybe KC thought AH noticed her checkbook missing or had checked her account and KC thought she was there to confront her too! I think she bolted so AL couldn't hear why both AH and Cindy were there! MOO

ITA......KC left mostly to keep Tony from hearing anything CA & Amy had to say. (the truth).

No way KC left simply because "mommy said"....."mommy said" for her to get her things, also, but KC didn't do that.....KC thought a few lies later she would be back at Tonys.

 

[scrabble]

The argument must have been horrific as I believe it took place after Shirley P. advised Cindy that Casey was stealing from the great-grandparents, and Cindy was so enraged that she put her hands around Casey's throat. What a tragedy!