Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 1

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It's just a guess on my part, but Casey went along willingly with her mother becaused she was embarassed her mother was making this public in front of her friends. She left to keep the others in the apartment from seeing the highly disfunctional relationship she had with her mom. Who knows what tales Casey told her friends about her life with Cindy.
jmo

KC didn't want her lies (to CA) & her thieving (from Amy) revealed to her boyfriend of the month. (Tony).

""disfunctional relationship""........LOL

We have yet to find ANY relationship KC had that WAS ""functional"".

She lies either to or about EVERYONE she knows.
 
The argument must have been horrific as I believe it took place after Shirley P. advised Cindy that Casey was stealing from the great-grandparents, and Cindy was so enraged that she put her hands around Casey's throat. What a tragedy!

Who says CA strangled KC ?? as far as we know they were the only two there......CA says it was a agruement (per MF), & living with an adult "child' that lies & steals prolly creates many arguements.

IIRC....Cindy already knew about the theft from the g-gps, as she had already replaced the money.
 
I always liked The Sociopath Next Door.

A friend of mine has The Sociopath Next Door. I'll borrow it. But will it answer the nature/nurture question? To me, it seems as if there must be a physical cause because 98% of the time therapy doesn't help. Or is that really faulty logic?
 
A friend of mine has The Sociopath Next Door. I'll borrow it. But will it answer the nature/nurture question? To me, it seems as if there must be a physical cause because 98% of the time therapy doesn't help. Or is that really faulty logic?

Friday, Thoughts on George going Home??:waitasec:
 
Who says CA strangled KC ?? as far as we know they were the only two there......CA says it was a agruement (per MF), & living with an adult "child' that lies & steals prolly creates many arguements.

IIRC....Cindy already knew about the theft from the g-gps, as she had already replaced the money.

It has been all over the news repeatedly.
 
I have not read the book , but my personal opinion is sociopathy is innate and related to fetal brain development. I believe many levels exist. Not everyone who could be diagnosed with being a Sociopath kill due to this factor, but also because of the nurture. When people speak of being born without a conscience, they are describing a Sociopath, imo.
 
I'm sure you have already read my thoughts on Cindy and Casey's relationship. And I have a feeling you have a bit more insight into their relationship then you are letting on :blowkiss:. Cindy is a sick b!tch, IMO- Casey may be the one who eneded up killing her child but Cindy is just as messed up IMO and that is why Casey went running home every time mommy told her to, including that last time. IMO. moo.

You're right :) I've read your posts with great interest, and I do have some, alas firsthand, insight into their relationship but only in a milder form. Nevertheless, for that reason I have to constantly fight against my extremely negative reaction to virtually everything Cindy says and does. It's instictive, so I can't be completely sure it's merited or not. Gee, I have a hunch that last sentence will tell you a whole lot about where my insight into CA's personality came from. :blowkiss:
 
I think the only reason Casey left with Cindy that day was due to Cindy threatening to call the police to Tony's if she didn't go with her willingly. Casey knew there was probably pot etc. in the apartment and she was protecting Tony.
 
It has been all over the news repeatedly.

LOL...well that doesn't make it true !!

LP talks about it (supposidly from the female bodyguard) or from Lee....

however LP & Lee were not there......& Cindy only says "arguement"

LP has put several things "out there" that turned out to be nothing, like the dumpster at amscot.
 
Just wanted to include the documentation that we have regarding the fight.
Keep in mind that the source is a man who doesnt have a great track record with honesty or ethics. (This is fact, not just my opinion.)

markfuhrmanindocs-1-1.png

Thank you!
 
I wish I could accept Kio's interview at face value but it's kind of ironic that she says Casey could not remember their conversations when she couldn't remember which Casey asked her to lend them $300. Maybe she was confusing the 2 Caseys back in high school.

:floorlaugh:
 
Interesting!

I had never really thought about it in this way.....that KC felt her time with TonE was very limited......her new friends were only temporary.

TonE would eventually wonder where her 2/almost 3 year old daughter was. Her parents would probably try to locate her. LA would probably try to convince her to come home. She had to know it was all eventually going to catch up with her. You just don't disappear with a child and think no one will try to figure it out.

The only way to fix the terrible mess she was in was to flee. She was probably trying to patiently wait for the right opportunity....just like her plan to kill Caylee in the first place. Probably waiting for the courage to do it in the heat of the moment.

Of course, CA ruined that plan and she didn't have the opportunity to get out of town, thus the ZFG nanny did it came to light. She needed "just one more day" to leave.
17326509_240X180.jpg
 
Perhaps the classic case of too little too late...

Cindy should not feel guilty for finally taking action - she quite possibly should feel guilty for year of inaction. I find it hard to feel sorry for Cindy - no matter how hard I try. She is not responsbile for the death of Caylee for sure but I believe she is responsible for enabling KC's behaviour.
I will totally feel sorry for her and gladly take back my sentiments if someone can indicate to me that she and George have had family therapy and mental health professionals involved over the years.

If they have had help and tried to take advantage of professional intervention then like I said I will take back every word and ask for forgiveness. I just havent been able to determine if they have had that sort of help.

I believe Cindy has covered up for KC for years. It seems that anything that doesnt fit with Cindy's version of what a family should be does not exist. George silently colludes. The rules are rigid - the family is enmeshed. KC is like the whirling dervish - exhausting to try to keep up with her - I get that. Living with a mentally ill person must be incredably challenging. Hats off to anyone who copes with this. The family needed help. The family needed to get help. If they did not get help then to me its like knowing your child is physically ill and choosing not to go to the doctor - just convincing yourself that its just a cold or even denying that your child is ill period! When you finally go to the doctor and find out that the child's health is now at serious risk is the parent to blame? The parent didnt cause the illness, but not getting treatment exacerbated it... I know it is not that black and white when it comes to mental illness so perhaps the analogy is not totally fair. And yes, it was not just Cindy - everyone has their role to play...

It seems like Lee is willing to risk his future with criminal charges and George seeks death as an escape from his pain... Do they all engage in a conspiracy of silence and denial? It seems so odd to me. I understand supporting family and wanting to stand behind your daughter but I also understand the risk of wearing blinders.

But whatever Cindy may or may not have done one thing cannot be denied. She loved Caylee. The sheer panic in her voice when she contacted the police (in contrast to KC's almost matter of fact, informational tone) was real. I commend Cindy for that.

Sorry for the rant

Great post.
 
God works in mysterious ways....Cindy showed up at TL's on 7/15 to find Caylee just in the nick of time IMO. Casey had done her dirty work and tried to bury Caylee's body in the woods behind her house, and was planning her get-away/disappearance to California when Cindy showed up. Casey knew her time with TL was limited as eventually he'd wonder where Caylee was. Casey's only way to get out of all this was to disappear. She still had some of the stolen money from Amy in her wallet and was just waiting to see if the guy in California would listen to her story "I have to tell you something" and invite her to California and take care of her. I'm not sure if he even knew Caylee ever existed, which would be an "easy out" for Casey if she could get him to take her in once in California. I can just hear the story she was going to feed to him.

Re bold. You're absolutely right, but I never really thought about that fact even though I knew she was setting up the young man in California as part of her escape plan.

Why then did she stick around with Tony and spend Amy's stolen money on nonsense at Target?? She had Amy's car, her own car which may not have been stinking unbearably in the beginning, and $700 for gasoline. En route to California with Caylee's carseat in the back and a load of Caylee's clothes along, she could have started driving and picked a spot along the way (a restaurant or truck stop or Service Area?) and screamed "kidnapping! My baby was kidnapped!"

I have to confess that until Caylee was found, I privately thought Casey was a whole lot more clever and cunning than she was being given credit for. For example, she'd managed to keep everything about Caylee a secret for 31 days--long enough to prevent LE from being able to use surveillance tapes because they'd all be erased, and she'd successfully disposed of her baby (in my opinion) in some alligator infested area where she would never be found.

Granted her lies to LE were completely absurd and easily exposed, but still...no baby, no tapes, and forensic evidence that she had to know would be disputed by whatever forensic specialist her attorney chose. I know that much myself from Law and Order. :)

Anyway, I've now decided everyone else was right and I was wrong. For all the reasons we know, including where she disposed of Caylee remains, Casey is not smart at all.
 
The argument must have been horrific as I believe it took place after Shirley P. advised Cindy that Casey was stealing from the great-grandparents, and Cindy was so enraged that she put her hands around Casey's throat. What a tragedy!

Re bold-- I thought that, too, but so far the evidence we have seems to indicate that was old news to Cindy from way back in April and already handled by Cindy. (See Chilli's recent post on this thread).

Do you know of anything to the contrary? I find it hard to understand why so many of us would have concluded the same thing you did about the cause of the fight, if we hadn't seen some sort of information to make us believe we knew the cause of the fight.
 
Originally Posted by Duckley
Perhaps the classic case of too little too late...

Cindy should not feel guilty for finally taking action - she quite possibly should feel guilty for year of inaction. I find it hard to feel sorry for Cindy - no matter how hard I try. She is not responsbile for the death of Caylee for sure but I believe she is responsible for enabling KC's behaviour.
I will totally feel sorry for her and gladly take back my sentiments if someone can indicate to me that she and George have had family therapy and mental health professionals involved over the years.

If they have had help and tried to take advantage of professional intervention then like I said I will take back every word and ask for forgiveness. I just havent been able to determine if they have had that sort of help.

I believe Cindy has covered up for KC for years. It seems that anything that doesnt fit with Cindy's version of what a family should be does not exist. George silently colludes. The rules are rigid - the family is enmeshed. KC is like the whirling dervish - exhausting to try to keep up with her - I get that. Living with a mentally ill person must be incredably challenging. Hats off to anyone who copes with this. The family needed help. The family needed to get help. If they did not get help then to me its like knowing your child is physically ill and choosing not to go to the doctor - just convincing yourself that its just a cold or even denying that your child is ill period! When you finally go to the doctor and find out that the child's health is now at serious risk is the parent to blame? The parent didnt cause the illness, but not getting treatment exacerbated it... I know it is not that black and white when it comes to mental illness so perhaps the analogy is not totally fair. And yes, it was not just Cindy - everyone has their role to play...

It seems like Lee is willing to risk his future with criminal charges and George seeks death as an escape from his pain... Do they all engage in a conspiracy of silence and denial? It seems so odd to me. I understand supporting family and wanting to stand behind your daughter but I also understand the risk of wearing blinders.

But whatever Cindy may or may not have done one thing cannot be denied. She loved Caylee. The sheer panic in her voice when she contacted the police (in contrast to KC's almost matter of fact, informational tone) was real. I commend Cindy for that.

Sorry for the rant


Duckley.....I don't think you are ranting...I pretty much think you are "right on". About the only thing I disagree about is Cindy. IMHO, I don't think Cindy was enabling Casey, I just think she was sick and tired of dealing with her and having to always walk on eggshells around her. Cindy DID go see a therapist about Casey and the therapist advised her to have Casey move out on her own and try to take care of Caylee by herself. Obviously didn't work....Caylee's death is what happened as a result, and I think that is why Cindy feels so guilty and is in denial about Casey. Because if it's true that when Cindy had the fight with Casey on the night of June 15th, and she might have said something like "we need you to move out Casey", and then Casey FREAK'D about it and killed Caylee, then obviously Cindy, in her own mind, feels very guilty....even tho she really isn't...but that is what Cindy is fighting to not have her mind know....sort of a unconscious self-preservation thing. Have you ever noticed in the jailhouse visits between Cindy, George and Casey that Cindy is very sad, hangs her head low in mental and emotional pain, and George can't even make eye contact with Casey and all the while Casey is ranting to her mom to not ask her any questions because "SHE DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING....SHE'S BEEN STUCK IN JAIL, SHE'S OUT OF TOUCH WITH EVERYONE...BLAH BLAH BLAH". I watched that August 11th (I think) visit that continued for about 30 minutes or so and that's all Casey could say. She didn't want to help to offer ANY information or to even TALK about possibilities of where Caylee might be. All she wanted to talk about was herself. This is what Cindy was sick and tired of and had been dealing with for probably years with that monster daughter of hers. I do agree about George...he just tried to keep the peace.

No...I have "absolutely" NO ill feelings towards Cindy or George. They tried. They just didn't know who or what they were up against with such a diabolical lying, scheming little witch of a daughter she had.
 
I have not read the book , but my personal opinion is sociopathy is innate and related to fetal brain development. I believe many levels exist. Not everyone who could be diagnosed with being a Sociopath kill due to this factor, but also because of the nurture. When people speak of being born without a conscience, they are describing a Sociopath, imo.

What do you think about BPD and the nature/nuture/childhood trauma debate? Curious as one of my daughters has BPD and looking back I can see developmental and behavioral symptoms as early as 4-6 months.
 
Re bold-- I thought that, too, but so far the evidence we have seems to indicate that was old news to Cindy from way back in April and already handled by Cindy. (See Chilli's recent post on this thread).

Do you know of anything to the contrary? I find it hard to understand why so many of us would have concluded the same thing you did about the cause of the fight, if we hadn't seen some sort of information to make us believe we knew the cause of the fight.

LOL...as far as we know ONLY Cindy & KC were the only adults there at the time of this fight....

If you attempt to keep up with all the lies/mis-truths in this saga, something I see is...

When Cindy lies, she always tries to make KC look good..."We had an arguement the 15th but then I tucked them in."

When KC lies she tends to make other people look bad & herself a 'victim'...
"I had to leave home Mom has even tried strangling me".

Since 'rumor' of this fight includes 'strangling' I tend to think, it's another of KC lies that was told to Lee or the female bodyguard.
 
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