Discussion between the verdict and sentencing

[turaj]

On page 12 there is a typo: "cricket bat" is written as "cricket back". I wonder how many other mistakes are contained in this doc...:gaah:

Judging from her confidence in reading it I think many many errors...a very sloppy job for such an important case watched round the world. I would have thought it would have been proofed any times and the reading through at least once by the judge in advance of the official day...I mean they had lots of time!!!

 

[Figuring]

What do people feel about Oscar's attempt to `resuscitate' Reeva?
To me, it was more of an attempt to make absolutely sure that she can not disclose her killer's identity to others (Stander, Stipp) before she is dead. I know, this is speculation, but Oscar's action after the shooting (calling Stander, calling Netcare but God knows conveying what - no one could have told him to move her body if given the right information, telling Baba that everything was fine) together with this novel resuscitation technique lead me to believe that this speculation is more reasonable than the Judge's conclusion on the same facts that he could not have intended to kill Reeva.

You know this is one of the most horrifying things to think about... that he might have put his fingers in her mouth to stop her chances of uttering anything about what happened in her final moments. It's yet another thing (and a major! thing) I can't believe the judge didn't think of as suspect. But then apparently in her court there is no such thing as circumstantial evidence. Only "Talk & Text" counts. And crocodile tears from the aggressor.

 

[Cherwell]

Does anybody know if Masipa has any grandchildren?

 

[cottonweaver]

Thank you cotton :smile:

It was over 30 years ago, which is how I know it never goes away! I feel so sad for Reeva' family and for all the memories OP has taken from their future.

Just listening to one of the State witnesses who, when quizzed by Oldwage on her 'assumption' that it was a woman who was screaming, replied "From my recollection, I am 100% sure it was a woman screaming". She didn't waver for a second, and yet Masipa just dismissed hers (and others evidence) as irrelevant. Still reeling!

Yes and she, Burger, was a music teacher who has presumably expert ear for pitch and tempo

Mrs S's emphasis and suppressed anger on OP depriving them of "reeva, their precious child", reevas future wedding and grandchildren : "he has taken that away from us, HE has taken that away from us"

 

[soozieqtips]

Soozie - when Judge Masipa said she was discounting the ear witness testimony altogether, my jaw literally dropped and my brain refused to accept that I had heard that for quite a few moments. I just could NOT believe it.

BIB - ditto!!! I sat there thinking I had misheard. And while the BBC is recapping parts of the trial, I just re-watched the part where Nel says to OP, something like: "You fired four Black Talon bullets into a small area. You MUST have been able to foresee you were going to kill someone".

Not according to Masipa!

 

[soozieqtips]

Does anybody know if Masipa has any grandchildren?

If she does, I hope she teaches them the importance of not hovering near beds.

 

[james83]

I would love to know how Masipa believes Oscar would have reacted if he knew Reeva was behind the door?.

 

[Cherwell]

If she does, I hope she teaches them the importance of not hovering near beds.

Yes, how awful it would be if they came to harm.

 

[james83]

Doesn't it just give you chills every time you see that painting Reeva did at 15 years old?, so spooky.

 

[cottonweaver]

BBC 3 prog
Never seen depth of Barry's anger before - then of course he breaks down.
Very affecting.

Mrs S : "There will never be any closure, especially now after this verdict" But they will try to move on.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Yes and she, Burger, was a music teacher who has presumably expert ear for pitch and tempo

Mrs S's emphasis and suppressed anger on OP depriving them of "reeva, their precious child", reevas future wedding and grandchildren : "he has taken that away from us, HE has taken that away from us"

and mrs steenkamp was clear that justice has not been done, i.e. it was more than culpable homicide in her mind.

 

[Cloen]

UK - On 'Pick' (Freeview) channel 11 'Pistorius: The Full Story'
tonight 2300.00-00.

 

[Figuring]

I am wondering: some commenters were saying the sentencing is ~5wks away to let this fall of the news cycle and/or let the judge provide a weak sentence. (I still tend to believe that, for the most part, though I don't want to.) But with all the outrage (especially within the legal community), do you think the appetite for justice really fade in 5 weeks and that this, if it had been a plan at all, could really go forward?

Additionally or alternately, it it possible that in taking what may seem like an inordinate break before sentencing could perhaps provide Nel an advantage re: enacting an effective appeal?? That is my hope, anyway...

Lastly: I was wondering if anyone understands better than I do, and would be willing to share, what it means about being able to appeal based on point of law vs. point of fact. For the life of me I don't understand how these things can even be seperated, and when I try to read the legalese my eyes start crossing...

 

[Cloen]

I am wondering: some commenters were saying the sentencing is ~5wks away to let this fall of the news cycle. I thought that, too. But now I wonder, with all the outrage, two things:
1. Will the appetite for justice really fade in 5 weeks?
2. Does allowing what may seem like a an inordinate amount of time actually give Nel an advantage re: time to plan for an effective appeal?

Lastly, I was wondering if anyone understands better than I do, and would be willing to share, what it means about being able to appeal based on point of law vs. point of fact. For the life of me I don't understand how these things can even be seperated!

State can't Appeal on point of fact, only if they think the Judge has made an error in Law.
Mitigation is like a mini trial,and will be fought tooth and nail when sentence given in October
If Oscar isn't given a reasonable sentence, around minimum 8 years I'd say, I think the State will Appeal IF they can, and they have the funding to do so.

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

Doesn't it just give you chills every time you see that painting Reeva did at 15 years old?, so spooky.

Can you please post a link? I haven't seen that yet. Thank you!

 

[Jamtart]

More of what we have been saying here:....

"Much has been made of the extreme emotion Pistorius has shown in court – sobbing, dribbling, retching and vomiting. But you can’t measure remorse by the degree of emotion displayed.

I’m sure he does deeply regret his actions now, but who is he really sorry for – himself or poor Reeva and her family? It looks to me like the completely selfish reaction of a man trying to stay out of prison."



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/katie-piper-oscar-pistorius-must-4256913#ixzz3DO694hCV

His acting classes served him well.

 

[soozieqtips]

Yes and she, Burger, was a music teacher who has presumably expert ear for pitch and tempo

Mrs S's emphasis and suppressed anger on OP depriving them of "reeva, their precious child", reevas future wedding and grandchildren : "he has taken that away from us, HE has taken that away from us"

BIB - yes. And now Masipa has virtually set Reeva's killer free, making the Steenkamps' pain even worse. It was heartbreaking to see Barry break down, especially after he'd been so ill and forced himself to make a special trip to see the verdict. Talk about crushing!

Then the Pistorius family said they (themselves) had suffered an 'unimaginable tragedy', while Reeva's family had suffered a 'terrible loss'. Which sounds worse??

 

[Mr Fossil]

@ mr fossil

further to my post above... from the judges timeline...

"6. 03:15:51, the duration was 16 seconds, Dr Stipp telephoned the
Silver Lakes security.

10. 03:17 Dr Stipp attempted to make a call to 10111.
11. 03:17 second sounds were heard. These were cricket bat striking
against the door."

in evidence dr stipp clearly states the 10111 call comes before the call that got through to security. [@3:15:51]
so #10 and #11 are incorrect assumptions. which would seem to be elementary mistakes - unless masipa has telephone evidence that shows otherwise.

03:15:51 is the time of the call to Security (I agree with Roux and Misipa, but I would, because it's in the telephone records)

Stipp says he calls Security after hearing the 2nd set of shots. This is what brings them to his house and ultimately he goes to OP's house, via the Security Gate (to check it's ok to go).

Nhlengethwa calls at 03:16:13 and 03:16:36.

Stipp hears no other sounds. Nhlengethwa hears no more sounds (and he lives next door!). Security hear no other sounds.

The only justification for putting the shots at 03:17 is Johnson's call time for which there is no independent telephone record. Just Johnson's say so. Oh, and Roux's. And, unfortunately, Nel's, who says "around 3:17".

 

[Cloen]

His acting classes served him well.

I think he's just a darn good liar, using his past achievements and boyish looks ,and wearing a suit that's a bit big for him to appeal to the Judge's good nature,and repetitive references to his faith and god etc.....she even mentions about going to Church on Sundays. He even said after he was sworn in at the start of his Cross Exam with Nel that he would 'try to tell the truth' ,,,,,,,who the heck says that if they intended to tell the truth ? very very odd,and can't think for a minute that the Judge and Assessors didn't view that as a red flag from the outset.......very very odd. They liked Oscar, they had a paralympic medal winning Olympic Champion infront of them crying a wretching and saying he'd made a mistake, prays a lot and begging to be believed - they fell for it hook line and sinker. The Judge ignored or twisted all the damning evidence against Oscar as if some of it didn't exist - you couldn't have made it up.

Personally , I think that Judge was far too inexperienced to cope with such a high profile case.

 

[whiterum]

You know this is one of the most horrifying things to think about... that he might have put his fingers in her mouth to stop her chances of uttering anything about what happened in her final moments. It's yet another thing (and a major! thing) I can't believe the judge didn't think of as suspect. But then apparently in her court there is no such thing as circumstantial evidence. Only "Talk & Text" counts. And crocodile tears from the aggressor.

And OP must have been enraged when Dr Stipp came onto the scene and put a damper on his theatrics by removing his fingers and confirming Reeva was in fact dead. So much so that he had the absolute ****s to claim on the stand that Dr Stipp didn't know what he was doing.