Does Pam Paugh Know Anything About JB's Murder?

[Tadpole12]

The other forum isn't appreciated here, and it's since been closed....you can google jameson245 and I think you'll find a lot of the old posts as those are still up. I was a member here when Murphy ran it way back when....and jameson I believe was a moderator. She started her own forum--may have been kicked out of here or it was a mutual decision. Jameson knew PP and she also knew the Ramseys---long story there. I went to hers, because the bent of the forum was not Ramsey guilt--but stayed around here once in a while---I tend not to be confrontational---afterall, if the Ramsys did it or not, doesn't affect our lives. Pam answered questions on threads, and she would be in chat once in a while---and there were conversations on other things. Jameson managed to be involved with quite a few people on the case. I don't think Pam deliberately lied about anything....possibly misinformation...but she didn't have a clue who did it--like any of us, she had a person of interest she was curious about.

but she didn't have a clue who did it--like any of us, she had a person of interest she was curious about.

heyya Maikai, did PP specify who her POI was?

 

[Tadpole12]

I remember that... She said it was someone who knew the family or was close to the family...

ty AC.,
answer to my q.

 

[Agatha_C]

"Maikai if P Paugh has never lied to your knowledge then please help me to under stand the following transcripts from "Inside Edition"

Agatha, not knowing something and a deliberate lie are two different things. The Santa Claus took on sinister tones, because the Ramseys did not remember where it came from. There was a big hullabaloo about it, and the BPD posted it on I believe a police department's website in Michigan. Finally a woman came forward and I believe she said they were given out at the last pageant JBR was in. The note in the pocket....and I don't know what it said, was probably something innocent. The santa claus was eventually dropped.

Maikai, with all due respect, not knowing something and pretending that you do, is lying. Aunt P implied that she knew all about the message..

DN: Miss Paugh, you mentioned this was one of several things left behind. What else has been located in the home?

PP: The incredible thing that we discovered is that there was something very telling left in the pouch and....

DN:....which you will not be able to disclose, is that correct? ( Aunt P was given the chance to say nothing and just stop, but no, not Aunt P!

PP: I can tell you that it was a message.

DN: A written message? Verbal message?

PP: Wouldn't be verbal, it was not on tape. There was a message to JonBenét left in the pouch.
( Implying she saw it and knows what the message was.

DN: What did the message say?

PP: I can't fully disclose that at this time.

Supposedly Aunt P had gained this information from a FOX news reporter Carol McKinley. McKinley either inquired about or told about a supposed message. Aunt P didnt have to say anything until she found out the facts from those that really mattered. Instead, she knowingly gave out information that was not verified and that was a wilful act. She very well could have been giving out crucial information, better kept a secret. She could have jeopardize the investigation of her nieces murder. Why would she do that? Now either she was slow witted or she herself was a party to the travesty that took place by giving out wrong information and telling untruths.

Aunty P, should have followed in the other Aunts footsteps and held her tongue....

1/29/99 Daily Camera by Christopher Anderson:

It has been reported that the grand jury investigating JonBenét's death is interested in learning about the manufacture and sales of the Santa bear because one was found on a bed in JonBenét's bedroom near the time of her murder, but is now apparently missing. JonBenét's aunt, Pam Paugh, recently told a reporter that a note was found in a pouch the bear had tied around its waist, but search warrants do not list any such note as evidence collected at the crime scene.

The missing bear was in a box of Jonbenets things, being stored in Nedra's basement. She had indeed won it at the Christmas Pageant or the Amerikids thing? Which ever, it had a legitimate explanation for its existence.

In my opinion, the Christmas bear was one big distraction. Created to keep focus on anything and everything but the perpetrators. This type of misinformation used up valuable resources, eg.. Time, money, manpower, and hours that could have been used in the actual capture of the sicko that murdered that child. What makes a family do that?

Im not wanting to sound aggressive, I am just so impassioned by my feelings about this case. I used to be IDI maikai, I couldnt buy this crap any longer, I couldnt make sense of it after a while. Help me to understand how you do it????? Not that your opinion is crap...LOL.. Not what I meant at all! However, the stuff they sold you, I think its crap (MHO)

 

[Whaleshark]

Agatha, I think the official word is 'Red Herring'. The bear was one of many Red herrings. So, so many.

 

[Tadpole12]

just rereading acr:

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-santa-bear-mystery.htm

and wondered how the missing raincoat issue developed.

midpage: 1999-10-30: Webbsleuths Forum (http://www.webbsleuths.com)
On Thread titled, "Q&A with Pam Paugh"


jams comments, "I have spoken to someone else in the Ramsey circle who told me they went through everthing looking for the bear and the yellow raincoat- neither has been found. No one knows where they are."



Question, did the yellow raincoat ever resurface?

 

[Agatha_C]

Agatha, I think the official word is 'Red Herring'. The bear was one of many Red herrings. So, so many.

Yes of course you're right and stinks like rotten red herring toooooo!

 

[Agatha_C]

just rereading acr:

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-santa-bear-mystery.htm

and wondered how the missing raincoat issue developed.

midpage: 1999-10-30: Webbsleuths Forum (http://www.webbsleuths.com)
On Thread titled, "Q&A with Pam Paugh"


jams comments, "I have spoken to someone else in the Ramsey circle who told me they went through everthing looking for the bear and the yellow raincoat- neither has been found. No one knows where they are."



Question, did the yellow raincoat ever resurface?

I have been driven nuts all night trying to find those darn pink pj pants and info on the raincoat... Pooh, pooh and more pooh! I cant find anything....

 

[Toltec]

Pam Paugh does not know who killed JBR. She had a person of interest she was curious about---a man that approached her at a cosmetic counter she was working, who was asking questions about the family. She was in Atlanta at the time.

The case was all over the news...of course you would expect Pam to have weirdo's and such approach her with "tips" and "confessions".

 

[Agatha_C]

The case was all over the news...of course you would expect Pam to have weirdo's and such approach her with "tips" and "confessions".

Ummmmm, JMK, to name one... :gasp:

Not that he approached Aunt P, but he was such a weirdo....

 

[Maikai]

The case was all over the news...of course you would expect Pam to have weirdo's and such approach her with "tips" and "confessions".

No, this occurred BEFORE the murder. He had a sweatshirt on with a particular logo---I don't remember what it was.

 

[Maikai]

In my opinion, the Christmas bear was one big distraction. Created to keep focus on anything and everything but the perpetrators. This type of misinformation used up valuable resources, eg.. Time, money, manpower, and hours that could have been used in the actual capture of the sicko that murdered that child. What makes a family do that?

Im not wanting to sound aggressive, I am just so impassioned by my feelings about this case. I used to be IDI maikai, I couldnt buy this crap any longer, I couldnt make sense of it after a while. Help me to understand how you do it????? Not that your opinion is crap...LOL.. Not what I meant at all! However, the stuff they sold you, I think its crap (MHO)

To me the bear was just something that took on sinister characteristics in light of the crime. I was under the impression more than one was given out, so it wouldn't surprise me if there were notes placed in the pockets. I don't know how much time was really devoted to it by the police---they got their answers pretty quick when the picture was made public.

No one sold me anything.....I was in Denver visiting relatives when the crime happened. I knew what Boulder was lilke in the 70's and how it had changed over the years to a town of those that have and those that don't. There was resentment by some of the nuevo rich that had moved in, driving up property values. The fat cat mention in the note wasn't a surprise. The first newscasts highlighted JBR as a Miss Colorado and the Ramseys as wealthy....even then, not knowing much about the crime, I figured it was a couple of people, possibly kids from welloff families with nothing to do that did it for kicks. Boulder was a melting pot for all kinds of people.

 

[Toltec]

I can believe John would not recognize the bear...but Patsy was there at the AmeriKids pageant where they were handed out. Most likely, the note Pam was referring to was the note found in JonBenet's trash can...the secret Santa letter stuffed into the pocket of the bear.

It's been awhile since the discussion of the brown paper bag with the Santa Suit found near the downstairs den has been discussed. Would this have anything to do with the crime or were the Ramseys going to take the Santa Suit to Charlevoix?

 

[DeeDee249]

I can believe John would not recognize the bear...but Patsy was there at the AmeriKids pageant where they were handed out. Most likely, the note Pam was referring to was the note found in JonBenet's trash can...the secret Santa letter stuffed into the pocket of the bear.

It's been awhile since the discussion of the brown paper bag with the Santa Suit found near the downstairs den has been discussed. Would this have anything to do with the crime or were the Ramseys going to take the Santa Suit to Charlevoix?

JR did admit to owning that Santa suit- it was worn at some Access Graphics holiday events. Traveling aboard a small private jet usually required careful attention to the total weight loaded on the plane. Patsy mentioned that specifically when discussing clothing found in plastic trash bags- they were lighter packed that way, easier to stash in the plane. I doubt they'd have wasted space and weight to bring that Santa suit- for one, Christmas was over- the trip was to have been AFTER Christmas.
Patsy didn't really want to go anyway, because it was just for a few days and they had another trip scheduled before the holiday school recess was over. I don't think anyone went ahead to put up a tree there, but I could be wrong. I don't remember reading anything about that.
No fibers from the Santa Suit were found on JB or anywhere at the crime scene. I had read that some of those fibers may have been found around a basement window.
If someone had dressed in that suit to lure JB, it couldn't have been a stranger or even someone who knew them. Who'd have known about the suit or where it was stored? And in just is not possible that NO fibers from there were in or around JB, the pineapple scene, or her room.
The few red fibers that were found were found in suspicious places (the INSIDE of the tape from JB's mouth, the paint tote from which the broken brush was taken, the entwined into the KNOT of the garrote cord) and these were sourced to Patsy's fleece sweater jacket.

 

[DeeDee249]

Let me add that NO intruder, stranger or not, would take the time to look around the house in the off-chance that a Santa suit was there just so they could pretend to be Santa and "kidnap" JB. So we have an "intruder" who was supposed to bring IN to the house a box of tissues, spoon, bowl and pineapple to put in the bowl (that just happened to match the china and pineapple already in the house), huge flashlight, Santa bear, roll of tape, cord, Swiss Army knife (that belonged to BR)....They also didn't bring any of these things OUT with them either, including the most important thing in ANY kidnapping- the VICTIM.
Yet this "kidnapper" did NOT bring in a pre-written ransom note, using a pad and pen found in the kitchen and neatly replaced where they belonged.
This was an someone with PLENTY of time (AFTER the family came home) and NO fear of discovery. In other words, not an intruder at all.

 

[Maikai]

I can believe John would not recognize the bear...but Patsy was there at the AmeriKids pageant where they were handed out. Most likely, the note Pam was referring to was the note found in JonBenet's trash can...the secret Santa letter stuffed into the pocket of the bear.

It's been awhile since the discussion of the brown paper bag with the Santa Suit found near the downstairs den has been discussed. Would this have anything to do with the crime or were the Ramseys going to take the Santa Suit to Charlevoix?

I hadn't heard the santa suit was found in a brown paper bag. The rope found in JAR's room may have been in a brown paper bag---apparently fibers from the bag were found on it. The Santa suit was taken in under a search warrant---I don't know what made it so special to be taken--if it looked out of place? The Ramseys did own a santa suit.

 

[Agatha_C]

I have been driven nuts all night trying to find those darn pink pj pants and info on the raincoat... Pooh, pooh and more pooh! I cant find anything....

Okay, I can admit when I feel stupid and right now, I am feeling it! Turns out the raincoat was only important to a psychics vision. The same vision that produced the drawing of the supposed intruder (looking oddly like the love child of JMK and JR.

Just more distractions and thats all.... :doh:

 

[Tadpole12]

Heyya Agatha_C,

ty, I did a little further reading only to discover...
sketchman and the psychic:
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-sketchman.htm


ya, distraction, but isn't distraction always associated with something of substance?

The counterpart to sketchman and the psychic would be
JB sighting a JAR look-a-like
and
the magnified impression of one of the wounds on JBR's body being resemblant of a nautical button?
Fuzzy memory, but was the button issue just tabloid fare?

 

[DeeDee249]

Heyya Agatha_C,

ty, I did a little further reading only to discover...
sketchman and the psychic:
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-sketchman.htm


ya, distraction, but isn't distraction always associated with something of substance?

The counterpart to sketchman and the psychic would be
JB sighting a JAR look-a-like
and
the magnified impression of one of the wounds on JBR's body being resemblant of a nautical button?
Fuzzy memory, but was the button issue just tabloid fare?

Not just tabloid fare. One of the pathologists (was it Spitz?) who looked at the autopsy photos described a "boat-like structure" in the mark on her cheek under her ear. If you look closely, you can see it. This doesn't infer it was a "nautical button" - that is a misconception. It simply means that there is a "pattern" in the wound that is shaped somewhat like a boat.

 

[Toltec]

JR did admit to owning that Santa suit- it was worn at some Access Graphics holiday events. Traveling aboard a small private jet usually required careful attention to the total weight loaded on the plane. Patsy mentioned that specifically when discussing clothing found in plastic trash bags- they were lighter packed that way, easier to stash in the plane. I doubt they'd have wasted space and weight to bring that Santa suit- for one, Christmas was over- the trip was to have been AFTER Christmas.
Patsy didn't really want to go anyway, because it was just for a few days and they had another trip scheduled before the holiday school recess was over. I don't think anyone went ahead to put up a tree there, but I could be wrong. I don't remember reading anything about that.
No fibers from the Santa Suit were found on JB or anywhere at the crime scene. I had read that some of those fibers may have been found around a basement window.
If someone had dressed in that suit to lure JB, it couldn't have been a stranger or even someone who knew them. Who'd have known about the suit or where it was stored? And in just is not possible that NO fibers from there were in or around JB, the pineapple scene, or her room.
The few red fibers that were found were found in suspicious places (the INSIDE of the tape from JB's mouth, the paint tote from which the broken brush was taken, the entwined into the KNOT of the garrote cord) and these were sourced to Patsy's fleece sweater jacket.

Perhaps this Santa Suit was going to Charlevoix...and this Secret Santa would appear there on the 26th.

 

[BBB167893]

Not just tabloid fare. One of the pathologists (was it Spitz?) who looked at the autopsy photos described a "boat-like structure" in the mark on her cheek under her ear. If you look closely, you can see it. This doesn't infer it was a "nautical button" - that is a misconception. It simply means that there is a "pattern" in the wound that is shaped somewhat like a boat.

It was indeed Spitz.