Dr. Phil Interviews Burke Ramsey (9/12 & 9/13 2016)

[Ambitioned]

Then the cops said they wanted
them to go to the police station. John states Patsy was in no condition to be moved.... so that's why they didn't go.
If she was in no condition to be moved, how did she get to their friends home later that day?

Yet they had no trouble at all going down to the station in Atlanta after the "burglary" if it even happened.

 

[RL2]

Thank you SO much for doing this, PositiveLight!

But just a reminder... "This kid" is a 29-year-old man, soon to be 30! I know he looks at least 10 years younger than that, and acts about 11, but he's almost 30...Unbelievable really. There are a lot of things wrong with him....I think maybe JR has kind of kept him in a box all this time and he's been frozen psychologically and maturationally...I have a 23-year-old son and he's WAY more mature than BR....

Ain't that the truth!

I would have been one grade ahead of BR in school..
before turning 30 this past Aug 6, I already had a husband, 2 kids, my masters degree and closed for a third time on a home w my husband (actually that was all before I was 29).

I almost wish Burke had never done that interview, just so I would assume he was semi-normal.:tantrum:

The Ramseys did him no favors..

 

[PositiveLight]

Y'all seriously get out the violins. This is a sneak peak of the Q&A. :boohoo:

DP to audience- "Ok now first off the top many of you have commented on Burke's smile. That when he's
talking about something that's very serious even though 20 years after the fact, that he's smiling.
So let me give you my interpretation of that. Um. This is anxiety. Uh. He's socially uncomfortable.
I've seen it a lot. He's not autistic. He's not weird. He's not creepy. He's just nervous. Um. This is
a young man that has grown up in kind of a seige mentality. I've spent a lot of time with him over the
last several months and you have to understand when this happened he was plucked out because media was
all over him. So he's been moved around a lot. Lived in isolation quite a bit and he's just not socially
comfortable and he's certainly not comfortable uh being on camera. And so when people get anxious you know
sometimes they'll pull their hair. Sometimes they'll you know (pretending to loosen his collar) kind of do
this kind of thing. Uh for him he just has this kinda nervous smile. Um. But he wanted to do this and he
wanted to do it because he knew at the 20th anniversary, that he was gonna get pushed to the forefront.
Because he's the one person in all of this that has never spoken. And he's was already getting bombbarded
with requests and people finding him. We know of 5 or 6 programs , movies, documentaries that are being
done right now about this story. But even with the discomfort, Burke wanted to do this because he knew that
it was the 20th anniversary and he wanted to honor his sister and he said if his story was going to be told,
he wanted to be the one telling it. So um what you're seeing is nervousness. I spent a lot of time with this
young man. He's very intelligent um and he's very personable when you spend time with him. What you're seeing
is anxiety expressing itself. Nothing more nothing less..." :boohoo:

 

[Ambitioned]

:dramaqueen:

 

[PositiveLight]

Do you know what just hit me? I wonder if anyone else has also thought of this. I think there was many more reasons than we have thought of that BR went on Dr. Phil.

http://www.biography.com/people/dr-phil-mcgraw-9542524

"Realizing that one-on-one therapy wasn't for him, McGraw soon launched a popular self-motivation seminar called Pathways. In 1989, he founded a company called Courtroom Sciences. The venture helped trial lawyers build cases via mock trials, behavioral analysis, jury selection and mediation."

You know that new TV show "Bull" is about him. I think he is already working for the Ramsey's preparing them for a potential upcoming trial. JMOO but it damn sure would be smart to go on national TV to "show your so nervous" with the famous Dr. Phil meanwhile that's all part of the plan. Taint the jury pool. Let them hear what you want them to hear. There was absolutely no good reason for him to go on Dr. Phil. (Don't forget Dr. Phil said he had been working with him for months...when has he ever spent that much time with anyone prior to coming on his show? Really?) On the outside it looks like it was a bad idea. On the outside it looks like he was trying to do a preemptive strike before the CBS special. Why now? (as Dr. Phil asks him.)

Exactly. Why now? It's not the first time anyone came out with a documentary or show or book or interview about this case and who they felt was responsible. Not by a long shot. It's not the first time people have tried to get him to talk or confronted him either (media). This has been going on for 20 years.

What IS new possibly is there is new evidence and possibly a new investigation or GJ. This time they don't have the money to buy their way out. Think about it. People close to the investigation want to talk. They want justice. With Lin Wood as their attorney, they are privy to any new investigations I'm sure. Dr. Phil is preparing BR for trial. Otherwise, he wouldn't dare let these interviews be released considering his background and what he's specialized in for so long. He would have told Lin Wood not to let it air. That his behavior would go against him and his family. That it would destroy any chances he had at winning over the public. So there HAS to be other reasons for doing it that we aren't aware of yet. Maybe it's possible that on the 20th anniversary of her death in December, there will be another follow up documentary pointing straight at Burke. With the evidence to back it up. I know its a big IF. But I just can't shake the thought that BR interview was his premier of this new season plus the new tv show based on him was premiering also. Something to think about.

 

[Heymom]

Do you know what just hit me? I wonder if anyone else has also thought of this. I think there was many more reasons than we have thought of that BR went on Dr. Phil.

http://www.biography.com/people/dr-phil-mcgraw-9542524

"Realizing that one-on-one therapy wasn't for him, McGraw soon launched a popular self-motivation seminar called Pathways. In 1989, he founded a company called Courtroom Sciences. The venture helped trial lawyers build cases via mock trials, behavioral analysis, jury selection and mediation."

You know that new TV show "Bull" is about him. I think he is already working for the Ramsey's preparing them for a potential upcoming trial. JMOO but it damn sure would be smart to go on national TV to "show your so nervous" with the famous Dr. Phil meanwhile that's all part of the plan. Taint the jury pool. Let them hear what you want them to hear. There was absolutely no good reason for him to go on Dr. Phil. (Don't forget Dr. Phil said he had been working with him for months...when has he ever spent that much time with anyone prior to coming on his show? Really?) On the outside it looks like it was a bad idea. On the outside it looks like he was trying to do a preemptive strike before the CBS special. Why now? (as Dr. Phil asks him.)

Exactly. Why now? It's not the first time anyone came out with a documentary or show or book or interview about this case and who they felt was responsible. Not by a long shot. It's not the first time people have tried to get him to talk or confronted him either (media). This has been going on for 20 years.

What IS new possibly is there is new evidence and possibly a new investigation or GJ. This time they don't have the money to buy their way out. Think about it. People close to the investigation want to talk. They want justice. With Lin Wood as their attorney, they are privy to any new investigations I'm sure. Dr. Phil is preparing BR for trial. Otherwise, he wouldn't dare let these interviews be released considering his background and what he's specialized in for so long. He would have told Lin Wood not to let it air. That his behavior would go against him and his family. That it would destroy any chances he had at winning over the public. So there HAS to be other reasons for doing it that we aren't aware of yet. Maybe it's possible that on the 20th anniversary of her death in December, there will be another follow up documentary pointing straight at Burke. With the evidence to back it up. I know its a big IF. But I just can't shake the thought that BR interview was his premier of this new season plus the new tv show based on him was premiering also. Something to think about.

All *very* interesting thoughts! Planning ahead, I can see it.

Still praying intensely for justice for JonBenet!

 

[Duchess518]

Do you know what just hit me? I wonder if anyone else has also thought of this. I think there was many more reasons than we have thought of that BR went on Dr. Phil.

http://www.biography.com/people/dr-phil-mcgraw-9542524

"Realizing that one-on-one therapy wasn't for him, McGraw soon launched a popular self-motivation seminar called Pathways. In 1989, he founded a company called Courtroom Sciences. The venture helped trial lawyers build cases via mock trials, behavioral analysis, jury selection and mediation."

You know that new TV show "Bull" is about him. I think he is already working for the Ramsey's preparing them for a potential upcoming trial. JMOO but it damn sure would be smart to go on national TV to "show your so nervous" with the famous Dr. Phil meanwhile that's all part of the plan. Taint the jury pool. Let them hear what you want them to hear. There was absolutely no good reason for him to go on Dr. Phil. (Don't forget Dr. Phil said he had been working with him for months...when has he ever spent that much time with anyone prior to coming on his show? Really?) On the outside it looks like it was a bad idea. On the outside it looks like he was trying to do a preemptive strike before the CBS special. Why now? (as Dr. Phil asks him.)

Exactly. Why now? It's not the first time anyone came out with a documentary or show or book or interview about this case and who they felt was responsible. Not by a long shot. It's not the first time people have tried to get him to talk or confronted him either (media). This has been going on for 20 years.

What IS new possibly is there is new evidence and possibly a new investigation or GJ. This time they don't have the money to buy their way out. Think about it. People close to the investigation want to talk. They want justice. With Lin Wood as their attorney, they are privy to any new investigations I'm sure. Dr. Phil is preparing BR for trial. Otherwise, he wouldn't dare let these interviews be released considering his background and what he's specialized in for so long. He would have told Lin Wood not to let it air. That his behavior would go against him and his family. That it would destroy any chances he had at winning over the public. So there HAS to be other reasons for doing it that we aren't aware of yet. Maybe it's possible that on the 20th anniversary of her death in December, there will be another follow up documentary pointing straight at Burke. With the evidence to back it up. I know its a big IF. But I just can't shake the thought that BR interview was his premier of this new season plus the new tv show based on him was premiering also. Something to think about.

Yes! I think Burke did the interview not to honor JB but to try and do damaged control from the CBS special (they got wind of it I'm sure!) DP said Burke would only do the interview with him. Why? BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE SAME LAWYER!

I know I have said this before (and people have shot me down) but I'm positive Burke has Aspbergers or is on the spectrum somehow. Even in his videos from 1998 he is obviously awkward. The 20years of seculsion didn't help but that's not what stated the problems. DP has lost ALL credibility with me.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Yes! I think Burke did the interview not to honor JB but to try and do damaged control from the CBS special (they got wind of it I'm sure!) DP said Burke would only do the interview with him. Why? BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE SAME LAWYER!

I know I have said this before (and people have shot me down) but I'm positive Burke has Aspbergers or is on the spectrum somehow. Even in his videos from 1998 he is obviously awkward. The 20years of seculsion didn't help but that's not what stated the problems. DP has lost ALL credibility with me.

I'm thinking BR could easily have anti social personality disorder.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[Meara]

I would caution us all about assigning a diagnosis to BR. There are specific diagnostic criteria to be met to diagnose any mental condition, and in some cases additional consideration must be given to differentiate conditions that present with similar symptoms (differential diagnosis). A person may have comorbid conditions (coexisting, independent conditions) that complicate diagnosis. Beyond diagnostic criteria, there is the "feel" of the behavior and details that emerge in clinical vignettes, textbooks, and the broader literature. Not all people with the same condition present in the same way (some narcissists, for example, are gregarious and grandiose; others are quieter and humorless). There is not only behavior and behavioral history to consider but also why a person does what he does. Two different people can exhibit the same behavior for vastly different reasons.

On the board, most people mention Asperger's/autism spectrum disorder, conduct disorder, and antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) as possible diagnoses for BR. First, let me say we're all on the right track in wanting to give a name to what we see. There is clearly something abnormal about BR. But does he meet the criteria for any of these diagnoses? Could his behavior be due to some other condition(s)? I think so, but I'll get to that later.

Asperger's could account for much of what we see. However, BR lacks the repetitive motor behaviors that are virtually always part of the picture. Maybe we haven't seen a large enough behavior sample, but we don't know. However, Asperger's alone contributes nothing to our understanding of the murder, since violence is not part of the "Aspie" profile. If BR has Asperger's, he also has/had some other condition that compelled him to kill.

Conduct Disorder would apply to BR if at the time of the murder he met three of 15 criteria in the 12 months prior to the murder and at least one within 6 months AND if it can be demonstrated that he exhibited one characteristic prior to the age of 10 (i.e., he would have to qualify for early-onset CD). The behaviors listed in the criteria would have to represent a persistent pattern of behavior. I'm not going to list them all here but, at best, it's a stretch. He qualifies for CD if he mistreated the dog, and forced JBR into sexual behavior, in addition to smearing poop on her candy box. Or if he threatened or intimidated her, plus two of the other behaviors. But we don't know for sure. But let's say we did. We would still have to know whether this pattern of behavior impaired his social and academic performance. And from what we do know, BR had friends and did well in school. It seems he did and does have the lack of empathy and remorse characteristic of CD, but then these deficits alone do not prove CD and are characteristic of other disorders, as well.

Antisocial Personality Disorder? Read this very good overview of ASPD by David Porter, M.A., L.A.C.D. and see what you think:

APD (Antisocial Personality Disorder) is a DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fifth edition),
diagnosis assigned to individuals who habitually violate the rights of others without remorse (American Psychiatric
Association, 2013). People with Antisocial Personality Disorder may be habitual criminals, or engage in behavior which
would be grounds for criminal arrest and prosecution, or they may engage in behaviors which skirt the edges of the law,
or manipulate and hurt others in non-criminal ways which are widely regarded as unethical, immoral, irresponsible, or in
violation of social norms and expectations. The terms psychopathy or sociopathy are also used, in some contexts
synonymously, in others, sociopath is differentiated from a psychopath, in that a sociopathy is rooted in environmental
causes, while psychopathy is genetically based.

The term antisocial may be confusing to the lay public, as the more common definition outside of clinical usage is an
individual who is a loner or socially isolated. The literal meaning of the word antisocial can be more descriptive to both
the lay public and professionals: to be anti-social, is to be against society; against rules, norms, laws and acceptable
behavior. Individuals with Antisocial Personality Disorder tend to be charismatic, attractive, and very good at obtaining
sympathy from others, by describing themselves as the victim of injustice. Some studies suggest that the average
intelligence of antisocials is higher than the norm, though this has been disputed. Antisocials possess a superficial charm,
and have an intuitive ability to rapidly observe and analyze others, determine their needs and preferences, and present it
in a manner to facilitate manipulation and exploitation. They are able to harm and use other people in this manner, without
remorse, guilt, shame or regret, It is widely stated that antisocials are without empathy, however this can be disputed, as
sadistic antisocials will use empathy to experience their victim's suffering, and derive a fuller pleasure from it (Turvey, 1995).


ASPDs are deceptive, manipulative and exploitative as a way of life. It's not just what they do, it's who they are.

Here are the diagnostic criteria:

A. Disregard for and violation of others rights since age 15, as indicated by one of the seven sub features:

1. Failure to obey laws and norms by engaging in behavior which results in criminal arrest, or would warrant criminal arrest
2. Lying, deception, and manipulation, for profit for self-amusement,
3. Impulsive behavior
4. Irritability and aggression; frequently assaults others or engages in fighting
5. Blatantly disregards safety of self and others,
6. A pattern of irresponsibility
7. Lack of remorse for actions

B. The person is at least age 18

C. Conduct disorder was present by history before age 15

D. The antisocial behavior does not occur in the context of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder (APA, 2013)


Unless a massive cover-up has taken place and BR was acting up a storm on Dr. Phil, a diagnosis of ASPD is away over the top. Where is the guile? the charisma? the intuitive ability to read others quickly for the purpose of exploiting them? He can barely speak in coherent sentences. Where is the evidence that he currently and repeatedly exhibits any of the seven behaviors in part A?

Kolar may be right in suggesting that BR had SBP (sexual behavior problems). It would explain what happened in 1996. However, it wouldn't explain what we are seeing now. Perhaps there was SBP and some other condition that persists.

BR may have a personality disorder other than ASPD. He could have what is called a schizoid personality. I hate to say it, but Wikipedia had a very good article on the subject, which includes this overall description:

Ralph Klein, Clinical Director of the Masterson Institute, delineates the following nine characteristics of the schizoid personality as described by Harry Guntrip: introversion, withdrawnness, narcissism, self-sufficiency, a sense of superiority, loss of affect, loneliness, depersonalization, and regression.[39]

This post is so long, I'll leave off here with the link to the Wikipedia article - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder - and a caution again, even to myself, not to be overconfident in assessing and naming BR's abnormal psychology.

 

[Coco'sMommy]

Do you know what just hit me? I wonder if anyone else has also thought of this. I think there was many more reasons than we have thought of that BR went on Dr. Phil.

http://www.biography.com/people/dr-phil-mcgraw-9542524

"Realizing that one-on-one therapy wasn't for him, McGraw soon launched a popular self-motivation seminar called Pathways. In 1989, he founded a company called Courtroom Sciences. The venture helped trial lawyers build cases via mock trials, behavioral analysis, jury selection and mediation."

You know that new TV show "Bull" is about him. I think he is already working for the Ramsey's preparing them for a potential upcoming trial. JMOO but it damn sure would be smart to go on national TV to "show your so nervous" with the famous Dr. Phil meanwhile that's all part of the plan. Taint the jury pool. Let them hear what you want them to hear. There was absolutely no good reason for him to go on Dr. Phil. (Don't forget Dr. Phil said he had been working with him for months...when has he ever spent that much time with anyone prior to coming on his show? Really?) On the outside it looks like it was a bad idea. On the outside it looks like he was trying to do a preemptive strike before the CBS special. Why now? (as Dr. Phil asks him.)

Exactly. Why now? It's not the first time anyone came out with a documentary or show or book or interview about this case and who they felt was responsible. Not by a long shot. It's not the first time people have tried to get him to talk or confronted him either (media). This has been going on for 20 years.

What IS new possibly is there is new evidence and possibly a new investigation or GJ. This time they don't have the money to buy their way out. Think about it. People close to the investigation want to talk. They want justice. With Lin Wood as their attorney, they are privy to any new investigations I'm sure. Dr. Phil is preparing BR for trial. Otherwise, he wouldn't dare let these interviews be released considering his background and what he's specialized in for so long. He would have told Lin Wood not to let it air. That his behavior would go against him and his family. That it would destroy any chances he had at winning over the public. So there HAS to be other reasons for doing it that we aren't aware of yet. Maybe it's possible that on the 20th anniversary of her death in December, there will be another follow up documentary pointing straight at Burke. With the evidence to back it up. I know its a big IF. But I just can't shake the thought that BR interview was his premier of this new season plus the new tv show based on him was premiering also. Something to think about.

This is brilliant! I believe you're right.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[cubbeegirl]

I'm sorry to hear that, Karinna. More sorry than I can put into words. The way you speak of him, sounds like he was a good guy.

Even so, and you can tell me to go to Hell for pointing this out, I think we all realize that there's a difference between when a body is found and after the undertaker has done his work. John's referring to JB when he found her. As opposed to Patsy at the funeral who kept gushing how "perfect" she looked.

Agreed , my 13 year old neice was strangled , and she most definitely did not have a peaceful look about her until the funeral home did their work on her ...

 

[zencompass]

I am so saddened to hear about your niece, Cubbeegirl. How absolutely heartbreaking.

Sending prayers of love and comfort your way.

 

[PositiveLight]

Agreed , my 13 year old neice was strangled , and she most definitely did not have a peaceful look about her until the funeral home did their work on her ...

I am so sorry to read this about your neice! That's heartbreaking! *hugs*

 

[zencompass]

Dear Karinna,

I cannot imagine the pain you have gone through. Your son's light will always shine in your heart and all of those who loved him.

What a remarkable person you are. I've noticed that you lift others up with your compassionate and insightful posts.

May love and healing continue to guide you. You are such a Blessing.

 

[zencompass]

Courageous folks who open their hearts to share their own tragedies on these threads are awe-inspiring. Your generosity of sharing is
huge and I imagine there will always be a touch of pain associated with it.

You all bring home the fact that as we all have grieved over loved ones, we greatly appreciate that others still care about our losses.

This is why I truly do not understand why members of JonBenet's family do not appear on these websites occasionally to say something like
"I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for remembering my sister/daughter".

I am not judging - just being surprised that this has never happened - at least to my knowledge.

I would be so grateful for anyone acknowledging my loss - whether it be in a letter or a website. I tend to think most people feel this way.

 

[Userid]

It may have already been brought up, but the most damning thing that BR says in this interview is when he admits to waking up in the middle of the night "when everyone else was asleep" to sneak down and play with his toys. He admitted it himself in the interview. That right there is pretty much all anyone needs to know this was not an intruder scenario, because the parents stayed up a bit (JR stayed up with BR to help him with a toy model if I'm not mistaken) and most likely, if he did indeed wake "in the middle of the night," BR would have heard or even encountered the killer roaming the house (drinking tea and feeding JBR pineapple in the dining room, leaving his flash light in the kitchen, etc.).

Does anyone know if BR received any train-related toys that Christmas? If he had snuck down to the living room to play with his toys, and he did receive a new train, wouldn't it be conceivable that he'd go down to the train room that very night as well?

 

[zencompass]

Quote: PositiveLight:

DP to BR- "Were you aware of these different theories that are out there? Theories that you
killed your sister, theories that your mother killed JonBenet, and theories that an
intruder killed JonBenet. That seems to be the three camps that people talk about."
BR- (smiling) "Yeah I mean I know that we're suspects. I didn't know there were "camps" I guess."
DP- "And these are people that post online. The shorthand is RDI- Ramsey Did It, IDI-
Intruder did it or BDI- Burke did it. Do you know the theories that they set forth in saying
that your mom killed JonBenet?"

Thank you for all of your tremendous work PositiveLight!

I've highlighted the area where D.P. brought up the fact that there are discussions online about B.R.'s sister's murder.

The glaring omission is that many of these people on the websites are extremely concerned about JonBenet's murder and they have
committed hundreds of hours of time to try to extract the truth from this mess of a case.

The point being, in my opinion, it should have been mentioned that these websites only exist because people care about JonBenet and they
believe she deserves justice. She deserved to have this case solved. At the very least. Most family members would be grateful for the
caring and interest for justice for a loved one of theirs who had been murdered. That is why I don't understand why this hasn't
happened in this case.

I know that people care tremendously about JonBenet because I see it in the posts I read on WebSleuths every day. They are filled with
compassion and kindness. There is a huge following about B.R.'s sister because JonBenet deserved more. She deserved to have people
standing up for her and demanding the truth about what really happened. After all, it is about a little girl who was savagely murdered. That
is why we are all here. For her. For JonBenet.

 

[TexMex]

I think she looked asleep even after the strangulation because she was hit over the head first and was essentially brain dead before the ligature was applied. Her heart was still beating, respiratory system was shutting down so technically still alive

 

[dogperson]

Was it John who said she looked peaceful? Maybe he was trying to comfort himself by believing she didn't suffer at the hands of BR.

I wonder how many sneaky and mean things BR did to her during her short life. I'm in the BDI camp, so I find it hard to imagine his problems "suddenly" escalated into what happened Christmas night. We know about the golf club incident. We know someone had been sexually abusing her. So sad to think about what this precious innocent child may have endured that we haven't ever heard about.