Egypt Air flight 804 missing, 19 May 2016

[Hope32]

TBH I don't think I have ever seen a lifejacket on an airplane look like the ones that were in the pictures. Most of the time they are the seat cushions that I think of.
I find it interesting that they are still reporting that the US thinks it is a terrorist attack, but the director of the FBI says that

FBI director: No evidence of terrorist attack

James Comey has just said that there is no evidence that flight MS804 was brought down intentionally, and that no group had claimed responsibility.

It has been reported that US intelligence have seen indications that a bomb brought down the plane. Mr Comey appears to be contradicting those reports.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ht-from-paris-to-cairo-disappears-from-radar/

 

[CARIIS]

France 24 :

reporting us inteligence does not indicate a bomb

egypt refused our help

Paris officials opening criminal case.

Debris was too small to be from a A320

Reporter: how important is it to find the plane?

 

[gregjrichards]

The uncertainty over where the plane has crashed is just absolutely awful God knows how the 66 families are coping right now. I hope they have access to mental health and any other support they need to cope.

Thank you for all your news posts and discussion it is much appreciated.

 

[Hatfield]

I know! They showed photos of yellow life jackets! Are they not counting that as debris?

A lot of life jackets in the area from the asylum boats, estimated 10 acres of them on the Greek Island of Lesbos so it wouldn't be inconceivable that the sea around there is also filled with them.

Thanks for reminding us of that. I was just about to say how silly it is not to think life jackets could be from the plane and your point is well taken.

It always amazes me how hard it is to find one of these planes.

Its long overdue to come up with a better way to guarantee location of a downed plane. Its high time one of those emergency locator beacon thingamajobs is automatically set off when a plane goes down. They could put it in the same waterproof metal housing as the flight recorder and just make sure it transmits a good signal by satellite.

Same type of thing they use on boats to signal for help.

Better yet how about constant GPS tracking signals going to the air traffic control tower. That way at least the air traffic control tower has a last GPS position when it disappears. We have all heard about the cost of installing something like this and we keep hearing cost prohibitive. Well Take some of our luggage fairs and pay for the darn thing.

This is just too crazy not being able to find a downed plane quickly. If plane goes down in a remote forest then time is of the essence and we need to be able to find it quickly to save any survivors if any.

 

[SouthAussie]

I saw an expert on TV last night who confidently said that as they had a rough idea of where the plane may have crashed, and because the waters were shallower there, he expected it to be found within the week.

I think it is harder than we think, if no-one has witnessed the event and can pinpoint the spot for them ... I am thinking this due to the MH370 ordeal (in a much deeper and wilder ocean), with no debris ever being officially seen, until it started washing up on shores much, much later.

 

[Hatfield]

TBH I don't think I have ever seen a lifejacket on an airplane look like the ones that were in the pictures. Most of the time they are the seat cushions that I think of.
I find it interesting that they are still reporting that the US thinks it is a terrorist attack, but the director of the FBI says that


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ht-from-paris-to-cairo-disappears-from-radar/

The director of the FBI is forgetting that the pilots would have radioed that something was wrong with the plane if there was normal engine trouble or something. The fact there was no radio transmission of any issues and then it just disappears is every indication that someone purposely took out this plane.

Whether it be a suicidal pilot again or a terrorist I am pretty darn convinced this was done on purpose and not some sort of engine failure.
If it was any normal malfunction the pilots would have said something.

 

[branwynbreeze]

France 24 :

reporting us inteligence does not indicate a bomb

egypt refused our help

Paris officials opening criminal case.

Debris was too small to be from a A320

Reporter: how important is it to find the plane?

Rolls eyes. Seriously, Egypt, just deal with it instead of acting like MH370's government.

 

[emirates1957]

Hi Linas......working at an airport for nearly 40 years, metal detectors can be tuned to reveal the slightest amount of metal etc. Unfortunately it's what happens below eg: on the ramp area of an airport together with incoming vehicles delivering catering/stores/supplies/building equipment and the list goes on. There is absolutely no way everything an incoming vehicle/truck can be searched in 5 minutes for dangerous goods. Even training rooms that are airside contain equipment carried on board aircraft eg: an axe !!!!!! Once you have gone through security - any staff member could access just about anything and whack it on an A/C .....sad but true.

Planes just don't fall out of the sky as we know at 37,000 ft - which is when an A/C is at it's safest phase.

Thanks for your wonderful posts guys.

My heart goes out to these families.

 

[emirates1957]

That's exactly right Hatfield. There would have been a distress call - not many distress calls are made at 37,000 ft unless you have a bloody high mountain in front of you !! Me thinks people know a lot more. Also if it was taken out by a device that there would be clearly identifiable fragments over a large area.

 

[DanceCard]

I was in Europe last month, I can tell you from experience CDG is well above American standards in airport security. I have my doubts that anyone placed an explosive device on this plane at that particular airport. I can also say I was rather thrown back by the lack of security at other countries' airports and train stations. ("lack of" meaning NONE). Other countries = Netherlands, Germany & Belgium. I think it is reasonable to say if these countries (especially Belgium, at that time) have very little security, most of the others would too.

My immediate thought was someone from the flight crew or a device that made it through one of the "the lack of security" countries.

I can't speak much for rail station security as I don't travel by rail very often. However, I've been flying with tedious regularity within Europe (and elsewhere on the planet) since the early 1980s. I find your airport experience in Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands quite extraordinary, and certainly not what I've experienced in the countries you mention. Which cities were you flying from?

I will say that there are some airports that I feel have less than adequate security, but these are not in major cities within the EU. Smaller airports in some countries (not just Europe), seem to have a laid back attitude. As holiday resort gateways it's almost as if they think terrorists won't choose their airport to cause harm so they carry out their security checks with little interest.

All of that said, IMO if someone is determined to place a bomb on an aircraft they can do it. At any airport anywhere in the world. So if this was a bomb and it was planted at CDG I wouldn't be surprised.

Edited to add : I've just seen Emirates1957's post #208, and completely agree. The flight out of SSH last year, people were assuming that a pax must have brought a bomb on board. We have to all get past that mind set.

 

[emirates1957]

Black boxes are normally activated via a switch in the Flight Deck, a switch on the device, or on impact "g" force. I also think that MH370 was a monumental cover up - just my thoughts.

 

[CARIIS]

[QUOTE=Hatfield;12572036]

Thanks for reminding us of that. I was just about to say how silly it is not to think life jackets could be from the plane and your point is well taken.

It always amazes me how hard it is to find one of these planes.

Its long overdue to come up with a better way to guarantee location of a downed plane. Its high time one of those emergency locator beacon thingamajobs is automatically set off when a plane goes down. They could put it in the same waterproof metal housing as the flight recorder and just make sure it transmits a good signal by satellite.

Same type of thing they use on boats to signal for help.

Better yet how about constant GPS tracking signals going to the air traffic control tower. That way at least the air traffic control tower has a last GPS position when it disappears. We have all heard about the cost of installing something like this and we keep hearing cost prohibitive. Well Take some of our luggage fairs and pay for the darn thing.

This is just too crazy not being able to find a downed plane quickly. If plane goes down in a remote forest then time is of the essence and we need to be able to find it quickly to save any survivors if any.

Both Boeing and Airbus aircraft have them, but they are used to "call ahead" and let maintenance know that a particular plane is having X problem. It is all about money, not safety - this way maintenance can start getting ready for repair. When a plane lands they can pull out the chip and read it on the ground. Only issue is you need the plane!

Almost every single component of connectivity is moving up to the next generation, meaning a bigger, faster and more reliable pipe from the aircraft to the ground. A big motivator here is also to make sure everyone aboard can have 2,145 channels on board ! This way United can say fly with us we have 2,145 channels. Then Delta can come behind them and say Fly us we have 2, 225 channels.

Europe is beating us in doing this. This cr*p has been going on for years. America is looking at it as cost/benefit deal . Before regulators move, though, ICAO and the International Air Transport Association, the main global airline trade group, are working to come up with voluntary recommendations for global tracking.

Wont happen IMO for decades - they need about 25 more crashes, and then the cost benefit might kick in. They will then another decade to get it up and running.............

notice the date of this article :
http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-europe-differ-on-real-time-aircraft-tracking-rules-1412709436
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/europe39s-rvsm-plan-gets-the-go-ahead-51073/

http://interactive.satellitetoday.com/via/june-2016/improved-technology-ushers-new-applications-for-the-connected-aircraft/

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/qtr_03_09/article_07_1.html

The real tradegy here is the tech is here, and up and running and free:

Inmarsat has confirmed it has proposed to ICAO a free global airline tracking service over the Inmarsat network, as part of the anticipated adoption of further aviation safety service measures by the world’s airlines following the loss of flight MH370.
This service is being offered to all 11,000 commercial passenger aircraft, which are already equipped with an Inmarsat satellite connection, virtually 100 per cent of the world’s long haul commercial fleet.

http://www.inmarsat.com/news/inmarsat-provide-free-global-airline-tracking-service/

The only positive of this tradegy is the word T>R>U>M>P> has only been said 3X!

 

[gregjrichards]

Black boxes are normally activated via a switch in the Flight Deck, a switch on the device, or on impact "g" force. I also think that MH370 was a monumental cover up - just my thoughts.

I agree with you the situation with MH370 stinks. It's nice to see you here again emirates1957 I hope you are well.

 

[SouthAussie]

Black boxes are normally activated via a switch in the Flight Deck, a switch on the device, or on impact "g" force. I also think that MH370 was a monumental cover up - just my thoughts.

I think there are quite a few coverups that go on. If we knew what they know, we would be terrified.
I saw the movie Eye In The Sky recently. Very thought provoking. There is so much we don't know.

 

[emirates1957]

All good here thanks Greg. Yes SA couldn't agree more. Hate to be an alarmist - I am sitting in my little office as we speak with 4 x A/C approximately 50ft away from me with their doors upon, stairs in place and currently unattended. Sure I would get be picked up on CTV - but if you wanted to do something you could very, very easily. The Engineering office is behind me and they have all sorts of interesting tools that could easily be placed on board to take out a crew member or compromise a ballistic door. A few $$$ in the right places could lead to a world of hurt. And as for MH370....I worked for them for many years, my best friend retired recently after 22 years. When she travels to KUL - nobody, but nobody will engage in the above conversation. It would appear that this was a deliberate act, just my thoughts however. I have a good friend who is staying with us over a 2 year period he is a F/O on the 787 and taking his family to Tehran to visit family this Sunday. Will be interested to hear about their security procedures.

 

[CARIIS]

All good here thanks Greg. Yes SA couldn't agree more. Hate to be an alarmist - I am sitting in my little office as we speak with 4 x A/C approximately 50ft away from me with their doors upon, stairs in place and currently unattended. Sure I would get be picked up on CTV - but if you wanted to do something you could very, very easily. The Engineering office is behind me and they have all sorts of interesting tools that could easily be placed on board to take out a crew member or compromise a ballistic door. A few $$$ in the right places could lead to a world of hurt. And as for MH370....I worked for them for many years, my best friend retired recently after 22 years. When she travels to KUL - nobody, but nobody will engage in the above conversation. It would appear that this was a deliberate act, just my thoughts however. I have a good friend who is staying with us over a 2 year period he is a F/O on the 787 and taking his family to Tehran to visit family this Sunday. Will be interested to hear about their security procedures.

Is he in love with her - she is supposed to be awesome/amazing to fly!! She is stunning in the air!! Just pretty ...............

check her out 00:36

[video=youtube;EniTCmJlVEo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EniTCmJlVEo[/video]

<modsnip>

 

[Gigi-G]

Is he in love with her - she is supposed to be awesome/amazing to fly!! She is stunning in the air!! Just pretty ...............

check her out 00:36

[video=youtube;EniTCmJlVEo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EniTCmJlVEo[/video]

Sorry for jumping in on your post. Sad to hear the news. The only good thing as we didn't have to wait months and months for news on her downing. Tc . I'm floating around.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[MathildaM]

I am interested in what you think MH370 was a cover-up for - pilot suicide and is this why no-one wants to talk about it in Malaysia?

On an MH17 note, the Perth parents who lost their 3 children and father / grandfather in MH17 had a baby girl a week ago, they released a statement. Honestly cried tears of happiness that this family could pick themselves up and find joy after what would be such a devastating situation.

Where is this plane and why hasn't it been found yet? The Mediterranean Sea (average depth is 5,000 feet) is not that deep compared to the 30,000 foot depths where they are looking for MH370 and AF447. If it didn't break up mid-air, surely it would have broken up on impact if it wasn't a controlled landing and in either situation there should be a debris field, even if the flotation devices.

I totally agree about precious posters outlining the technology is available to track flights, in 2016 we should not be losing any plane for over 12 hours now.

Am I too impatient? Thoughts?

 

[cujenn81]

I know! They showed photos of yellow life jackets! Are they not counting that as debris?

A lot of life jackets in the area from the asylum boats, estimated 10 acres of them on the Greek Island of Lesbos so it wouldn't be inconceivable that the sea around there is also filled with them.

That's so heartbreaking

 

[CARIIS]

Media going off again. They are super if a plane crashes into terrain. Before impact you can hear what the crew was struggling with. Leads you to cause.

If they know, satellite images, that it exploded in air suddenly the black box is going to tell us nothing. When planes expode in air, casue does not matter, the recorders cease. So what we could get out of black boxes is zip. Tapes suddenly stop! We already knew that the plane stopped funcitoning.

If it was mechanical issue could be helpful. They can tell from pulling up a few pieces from the sea . Bombs blow outward, and leave like shrapnel marks on the skin of the plane . (Kinda like Boston bombers / and peoples bodies )

Decompression does not have shrapnel . Wind event does not have it either!! . Engine explosion would have inward going damage.

The way a plane breaks up is different between structural overload and a bomb inside. It just breaks up differently .