Egypt Air flight 804 missing, 19 May 2016

[cujenn81]

Reporter: how important is it to find the plane?

They can NOT be serious with this question, right?

 

[cuffem]

I was in Europe last month, I can tell you from experience CDG is well above American standards in airport security. I have my doubts that anyone placed an explosive device on this plane at that particular airport. I can also say I was rather thrown back by the lack of security at other countries' airports and train stations. ("lack of" meaning NONE). Other countries = Netherlands, Germany & Belgium. I think it is reasonable to say if these countries (especially Belgium, at that time) have very little security, most of the others would too.

My immediate thought was someone from the flight crew or a device that made it through one of the "the lack of security" countries.

Yes,flying for many years into Zaventem and it was so easy flying in and out.The day before the Brussels bomb we flew out and I mentioned to my husband how easy it is to get all the way in to the airport before you are checked.Now it will be a nightmare.I will be flying back from CDG because my airline stopped my usual flight into Brussels for 1 year til they have better security. The day we flew out was the first week they had pu ta new security measure in place and it did not work for us which is typical.

 

[cuffem]

I haven't flown out of the others, but The Netherlands most certainly does have airport security. It's just in a different location than you're probably used to - right by the gate. Everyone is interviewed, scanned and/or
patted down and your carry-on scanned and searched before you're allowed into the sealed off waiting room. Lots of opportunity to do something bad in the airport itself, not so much bringing anything onto the plane. Compare that to US airports where people barely get interviewed (although you do get scanned and so does your carry-on) before entering the entire huge airport with lots of stores and lots of people working there and lots of opportunity to smuggle something nefarious behind the security lines. I much prefer the security at the gates because it puts up an extra barrier between possibly shady characters working at airport stores and the planes.

ETA: also, in Amsterdam you do not get to the general part of the airport (with the stores and everything, the area that is behind security at US airports) unless you have a boarding pass. They do check for that. So not every John, Dick and Harry off the street can just walk deep into the airport. If you wanted to wreak airport havoc you'd have to have a boarding pass or do it by the check-in desks (like they did in Brussels).

I fly to Amsterdam alot and their security is not that tight,no scanners and no shoe check or random personal checks.The shoe bomber flew with the items out of Amsterdam to Detroit.

 

[wendybtn]

I fly to Amsterdam alot and their security is not that tight,no scanners and no shoe check or random personal checks.The shoe bomber flew with the items out of Amsterdam to Detroit.

I think that was the underwear bomber. Detroit, 2009. The shoe bomber was Richard Reid, 2002, I believe.

 

[CARIIS]

Tid Bits


The Aviation Safety Network today released the preliminary 2015 airliner accident statistics showing a record low total of 16 fatal airliner accidents, resulting in 560 fatalities.

The plane /model history :

• 31[SUP]st[/SUP] loss
• 4050+ built
• 8[SUP]th[/SUP] worst accident

8 accidents, 167 fatalities
» 10-year average:
10 accidents, 205 fatalities

There have been 33 occurrences in the ASN safety database in the Med Sea

WOW-

This plane was worked. One takeoff and one landing is called one cycle. Each cycle is stress(up/down) on the plane. Pressure. This bird has been working!!

On the 13 She had 6 cycles
On the 14 she did so 5 cycles
15 5 cycles
16 3
17 4
18
That is a high utilization life!

Compare to like long haul they do one cycle in a whole 24 hours!

Just checking stuff out! All I can find is from the 13th to yesterday.
Really good on time performace each day - that is pretty good for a plane that is doing that many segments a day!

Dont know how typical this is , but strange schedule. Some times they turned her around in an hour- other times they let her sit there for several hours?

May 16 :Would anyone know how to figure out what speed tailwind (just wonder if any damage) She was hauling on that segment - about 60 mph faster than other tracks i played! Arrived 23 minutes early.


https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/su-gcc



I did not realize it was the Greek Military:
Greek military authorities earlier reported that their primary radar showed the aircraft suddenly taking a 90 degree turn left, followed by a 360 degrees turn in the opposite direction as it descended from FL370 to FL150 before disappearing off radars.

http://news.aviation-safety.net/201...s-the-safest-year-ever-according-to-asn-data/

Qwest seens think there is something signfigant about everything happening when it entered Egypt, like what a plane knows where it is!! What does that have to do with anything?

 

[Kip]

...

Where is this plane and why hasn't it been found yet? The Mediterranean Sea (average depth is 5,000 feet) is not that deep compared to the 30,000 foot depths where they are looking for MH370 and AF447. If it didn't break up mid-air, surely it would have broken up on impact if it wasn't a controlled landing and in either situation there should be a debris field, even if the flotation devices. ....

That's what's most puzzling to me too. They have a rough idea of where the plane went down. It seems like they should be able to at least spot the jet fuel/oil slick. As they were approaching their destination, there wouldn't have been a massive amount of fuel, but enough to be noticeable.

 

[Roselvr]

Tid Bits


The Aviation Safety Network today released the preliminary 2015 airliner accident statistics showing a record low total of 16 fatal airliner accidents, resulting in 560 fatalities.

The plane /model history :

• 31[SUP]st[/SUP] loss
• 4050+ built
• 8[SUP]th[/SUP] worst accident

8 accidents, 167 fatalities
» 10-year average:
10 accidents, 205 fatalities

There have been 33 occurrences in the ASN safety database in the Med Sea

WOW-

This plane was worked. One takeoff and one landing is called one cycle. Each cycle is stress(up/down) on the plane. Pressure. This bird has been working!!

On the 13 She had 6 cycles
On the 14 she did so 5 cycles
15 5 cycles
16 3
17 4
18
That is a high utilization life!

Compare to like long haul they do one cycle in a whole 24 hours!

Just checking stuff out! All I can find is from the 13th to yesterday.
Really good on time performace each day - that is pretty good for a plane that is doing that many segments a day!

Dont know how typical this is , but strange schedule. Some times they turned her around in an hour- other times they let her sit there for several hours?

May 16 :Would anyone know how to figure out what speed tailwind (just wonder if any damage) She was hauling on that segment - about 60 mph faster than other tracks i played! Arrived 23 minutes early.


https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/su-gcc



I did not realize it was the Greek Military:
Greek military authorities earlier reported that their primary radar showed the aircraft suddenly taking a 90 degree turn left, followed by a 360 degrees turn in the opposite direction as it descended from FL370 to FL150 before disappearing off radars.

http://news.aviation-safety.net/201...s-the-safest-year-ever-according-to-asn-data/

Qwest seens think there is something signfigant about everything happening when it entered Egypt, like what a plane knows where it is!! What does that have to do with anything?

Nice to see everyone here, been trying to catch up.

My hub was watching NBC news tonight, it said that the plane was spinning going down till they lost sight of it. I'm shocked it hasn't been found. Are they listening for the black boxes beeping yet?

After MH370, you would think everyone would do better by now. 2+ years and counting!

 

[Dr. Know?]

I'm far from any expert on these planes crashing or going missing. I just can't get past the computers possibly being hacked. MH370 for one. The cell phone theory sounded right on. It feels technical at least partially. Lack or laid back security (human nature) is always possible. Even reading or writing about an event. Now posting via MSM is wrong. My apologies for posting incorrect tweets earlier.

Let me tell you about flying out of Gulfport years ago or Cincinnati Airport in KY...Tucson, Dallas, Atlanta, Orlando, Chicago, NY, etc...

 

[cuffem]

I think that was the underwear bomber. Detroit, 2009. The shoe bomber was Richard Reid, 2002, I believe.

OK thanks,I am getting old so my memory is iffy.
I wanted to also tell you about a TV show that is done out of Schipol.It uses cameras to cover peoples stories of arriving at the airport and their loved ones or friends wait for them inside the airport and not having undergone any security.Remember the old days when you could send someone off from the gate?

 

[Gigi-G]

That's so heartbreaking

Don't forget tho. that there will be a lot of debris as Greece is commonly now used for refugee boats coming in. Many have died on this journey n pushed overboard. May God rest their soul's.
I am hoping they find something solid proof wise soon. Such a sad sad time ):

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[JanetElaine]

I know how you feel. In March my daughter traveled to Ireland and back without us and I was scared to death. On top of that, Aer Lingus was terrible about updating flight info. Fortunately I discovered flightview.com and that kept up instantaneous tracking on the flight, that was the only thing that eased my mind.

I actually can't do the live checking anymore. Shortly after MH370 disappeared my parents flew back to Europe and there's always a part over the Atlantic where there are no updates. I almost had a gigantic meltdown, even though I knew that part is always there. It has become too nerve wracking... they'll be coming over here this weekend and I have to make a point of keeping busy and not checking any flight info until their expected landing time (apart from seeing if they left on time). I was nervous already before this happened....

 

[cuffem]

I actually can't do the live checking anymore. Shortly after MH370 disappeared my parents flew back to Europe and there's always a part over the Atlantic where there are no updates. I almost had a gigantic meltdown, even though I knew that part is always there. It has become too nerve wracking... they'll be coming over here this weekend and I have to make a point of keeping busy and not checking any flight info until their expected landing time (apart from seeing if they left on time). I was nervous already before this happened....

I am nervous too,going into Zaventem this weekend.

 

[beach]

ADMIN NOTE

Leave U.S.politics out of this discussion. Do not reference a candidate, their agendas, nothing political. NOTHING.

ZERO tolerance.

Will be an immediate TO for ANY further references.

I've snipped one post and removed several others. Last time we will be doing that. Loss of posting privileges is next.

Please bump my post as needed and alert any infractions. Thanks.

 

[dotr]

How horrifying for the passengers to be in a downward spiral, hope whatever happened, that it was quick.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/...-plane-disappeared-radar-160519031853365.html

"At 4:26am, rescue teams affiliated with the Egyptian armed forces have received an SOS message from the emergency unit of the missing plane," EgyptAir said on Twitter.

The AFP news agency said the Egyptian army later denied detecting any distress signal from the missing airliner.

An air force spokesman said the drop took place in under one minute, suggesting that the plane was in free fall and pilots had lost all control.

Military radar operates at lower altitudes than civil radar systems, and was able to capture the spiral.

 

[JanetElaine]

I fly to Amsterdam alot and their security is not that tight,no scanners and no shoe check or random personal checks.The shoe bomber flew with the items out of Amsterdam to Detroit.

I'm not trying to argue but what do you mean, no scanners? Going into the waiting room by the gate we always have to take our shoes off and step into a full body scanner. Schiphol was even the first airport on the world to start using these... then when you step out of it they use a wand scanner (for the metals). I fly out of and to Amsterdam a lot too, several times a year, so this is my first hand experience.

I'm not saying Amsterdam is the only foolproof airport in the world. No airport is that. But I was responding to someone who said Amsterdam doesn't have airport security and that's just not correct.

 

[JanetElaine]

OK thanks,I am getting old so my memory is iffy.
I wanted to also tell you about a TV show that is done out of Schipol.It uses cameras to cover peoples stories of arriving at the airport and their loved ones or friends wait for them inside the airport and not having undergone any security.Remember the old days when you could send someone off from the gate?

That is inside the general airport area, like the check-in desks. Those are on the second floor, arrivals on the first floor. They wait by the doors passengers go through after having picked up their luggage. I hate that setup. You try to get on your way and have to elbow yourself through a crowd. Grmph.

The weirdest thing about US airports I've found is anyone and their brother can walk up to the baggage carousels... might not be a security issue but it sure sucks when you get through customs slowly and you're hoping your suitcase will still be there. :/

 

[JanetElaine]

I am nervous too,going into Zaventem this weekend.

Safe travels, cuffem! Flying sucks anymore...

 

[CARIIS]

Just noting I just saw post about political - not sure where I mentioned it before your post

 

[cuffem]

That is inside the general airport area, like the check-in desks. Those are on the second floor, arrivals on the first floor. They wait by the doors passengers go through after having picked up their luggage. I hate that setup. You try to get on your way and have to elbow yourself through a crowd. Grmph.

The weirdest thing about US airports I've found is anyone and their brother can walk up to the baggage carousels... might not be a security issue but it sure sucks when you get through customs slowly and you're hoping your suitcase will still be there. :/

Yes,I read about people going to airport baggage just to pickup random suitcases. My husband and I have a routine.When we arrive in Atlanta and I have to spend 45 min. to 1 hr. going through customs meanwhile our luggage is sitting out.But he has global entry so he leaves me and goes to get our luggage.

 

[branwynbreeze]

From Cariis' link, https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=186541

Wow, never checked that out before, found crash of a friend of mine 17 April. She and her boyfriend survived, thank G*d, but she is in rehab with more surgeries ahead.