Elisa Lam - What Happened?

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

Why did Elisa die?

  • Homicide/crime of opportunity - Murder due to chance encounter with someone on the day she died

    Votes: 162 47.4%
  • Homicide/preplanned - Elisa was lured to her death in a scheme planned before the day she died

    Votes: 46 13.5%
  • Accidental death - related to an altered mental state: drug induced, psychosis, sleep walking, etc.

    Votes: 86 25.1%
  • Suicide - Elisa intended to end her life due to mental issues/other

    Votes: 7 2.0%
  • Occult/supernatural/conspiracy - related to occult, supernatural phenomena or gov./other conspiracy

    Votes: 5 1.5%
  • Unsure/Do not know

    Votes: 36 10.5%

  • Total voters
    342
Status
Not open for further replies.
if she had a psychotic break and decided to unfortunately commit suicide, I would think she would exhibit the impulsivity of the bipolar and do something more impulsive like jump off of the roof rather than something calculated like crawl into a cistern to Pass on.


IMHO
 
I agree with your intuitions here. One possibility I've always wondered about is whether she 'witnessed' something she should not have (like a 'hit' or anything else illegal). This could have happened on the roof, like you said. Then she went down to leave and the perp followed her.

As far as the timeline of the camera vs disappearance, hasn't there been some quote from journalists or LE about the fact that this video is the last time she was seen (at least on camera)?

And I am convinced that the perp knew there was a camera in the elevator, which is why this has been such a tough case to crack.

I agree-

I believe this video was taken late the night before she was to check out . So I suppose if we consider her disappearance beginning at check out time (noon I believe?) then it would have been give or take 12 hrs max between the CCTv footage and when she didn't check out. The majority of those hours would have been dark outside.
 
And She could have definitely seen something illegal from the roof I agre with you there. It is skid row. Maybe people from the street would use the fire escape to climb to the top/roof of the building - and once on top of building they would have drug deals/ gang meet up/ transient hangout.

Perhaps there was a drug deal that went awry up there that night and Elisa unfortunately saw it. She thought she could make it to the lobby to report what she saw (or assailant feared she would do this although she planned on just going back to her room which might explain her being more calm at first in the video)... but unfortunately she did not go unnoticed and was followed down to the elevator. I don't think she was fully aware at first the she was being followed - I think she realized after pressing the buttons the first time that she had been followed. Perhaps She initually didn't believe the peep would follow her.

Wouldn't there be CCTV footage of the Cecil rooftop that night Via another nearby hotel CCTV rooftop/building surveillance?
 
And perhaps when she finally steps out of the elevator she is trying to explain to the assailant why she was walking around on The roof and that she didn't see anything.

but the perp called her bluff

and told her, at gunpoint, to wait on the other side of the elevator door until it closed so he could pass by it without being caught on CCTV. Then they headed back up the stairs to the roof where she would eventually be left. When she leaves the scene, She puts her hands behind her head before turning and walking away as if being held at gunpoint.

Maybe, if it is a dealer who frequented the Cecil for transactions (the rooftop and rooms), that is why they knew where the cameras were. Tried to avoid them in general so as not to be caught for dealing.

Did Elisa take anything like Ambien to help her sleep? Maybe her distracted/unorganized behavior in the elevator can be a result of foggyness from a CNS depressive sleep aid.
 
And She could have definitely seen something illegal from the roof I agre with you there. It is skid row. Maybe people from the street would use the fire escape to climb to the top/roof of the building - and once on top of building they would have drug deals/ gang meet up/ transient hangout.

Wouldn't there be CCTV footage of the Cecil rooftop that night Via another nearby hotel CCTV rooftop/building surveillance?
I remember reading about an former hotel guest who described an encounter with a homeless man up there on he roof. If it could happen there and then it has probably also occurred several times in the past.

I have also been thinking about footage from some nearby hotel. I did some research on it before but could not find anything.
 
I remember reading about an former hotel guest who described an encounter with a homeless man up there on he roof. If it could happen there and then it has probably also occurred several times in the past.

I have also been thinking about footage from some nearby hotel. I did some research on it before but could not find anything.

I thank you for this information. I also was wondering if maybe homeless/transients might sleep in the mechanical room up there. I live in SoCal and remember it was so extremely cold and rainy at the time Elisa disappeared.

It seemed like detectives were walking around inside the mechanical room on top the roof from the aerial pictures taken during the CSI. Could there have been someone staying in that room on the roof to avoid the cold/criminal streets of Skid Row? Possibly a transient who is off the radar despite having some history with crime?
 
Let me put it this way. Being from here (Southern CA) the ppl who freak me out the most arent necessarily the gangs or organized crime groups.... The ppl who freak me out are the transients who are so unpredictable and they also are more likely to fall under law enforcements radar being that many are antisocial/mentally Ill/not in the system.

I do have great tenderness for those in the homeless unity who bid no harm to others, don't get me wrong. But the homeless on skid row are a different breed typically.
 
I guess what I'm getting at is the person may have gone largely undetected bc they for the most part were never checked in/stayed in the hotel. If they entered and exited the roof via the fire escape they would be undetected.

The fire escape goes from the street all the way up the the roof.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/MobileVi...99513-Cecil_Hotel-Los_Angeles_California.html

MobileViewPhoto-g32655-d276208-i30099513-Cecil_Hotel-Los_Angeles_California.html
 
Also many ppl use the fire escape bc guests are not allowed to bring visitors into the hotel! If you do wish to bring someone besides yoursf, you pay $35 a person.

To avoid this $35 visitor fee at the lobby/entrance, many ppl might utilize the fire escape and roof to let their visitors gain access to the hotel. This assuming that the rooftop door to the hotel was unlocked.
 
Most external fire escapes aren't accessible from street level, for security reasons.

The external fire escape for the Cecil Hotel, at least the one at the front, is no different.

From the height of the guy on the sidewalk, it's about 20 feet up to the ladder.

Although I suppose someone in the hotel could drop the ladder to allow someone to climb up.

Cecil Hotel Fire escape.JPG
 
Most external fire escapes aren't accessible from street level, for security reasons.

The external fire escape for the Cecil Hotel, at least the one at the front, is no different.

From the height of the guy on the sidewalk, it's about 20 feet up to the ladder.

Although I suppose someone in the hotel could drop the ladder to allow someone to climb up.

View attachment 33746

Hmmm...interesting. I just learned there may be another entrance to the hotel that is not secured. According to local historians the serial killer Richard Ramirez, who called the Cecil home in the 80's, returned dripping in blood and tossed his clothes in a dumpster. He climbed the back stairs to his room which incidentally was on the 14th floor. When I first read this I assumed "back stairs" meant fire escape. Maybe not.


Ramirez, now on Death Row in California's San Quentin State Prison, would routinely return to the Cecil at night through the back alley entrance, visible from 7th Street, covered in blood. He would throw his bloody shirts into the Dumpster in the alley and walk up to his room clad only in pants.


from True Crime Notebook (widely reported other places)

Is there a back entrance we do not know of with roof access? It totally makes sense they would have back entrances. Where else would they take deliveries?
 
if she had a psychotic break and decided to unfortunately commit suicide, I would think she would exhibit the impulsivity of the bipolar and do something more impulsive like jump off of the roof rather than something calculated like crawl into a cistern to Pass on.


IMHO
I personally agree that it seems intentional suicide is unlikely. However, accidental death due to 'misadventure' is a very different thing, of course, and I can easily see that as a possibility. The apparent factors against it are all explainable in a variety of realistic ways, and seems at least as possible as the evidence for foul play. My biggest issue with it this theory is the lack of clothing found, assuming the reports of her nudity are true. But even that is explainable in several ways that I can think of.

Myself and others have posted about this stuff in the past, but since the thread is going back into some of the foul play theories and ideas from the past, I thought I'd throw this in :) But foul pay is also also quite possible, in my opinion.
 
Hmmm...interesting. I just learned there may be another entrance to the hotel that is not secured. According to local historians the serial killer Richard Ramirez, who called the Cecil home in the 80's, returned dripping in blood and tossed his clothes in a dumpster. He climbed the back stairs to his room which incidentally was on the 14th floor. When I first read this I assumed "back stairs" meant fire escape. Maybe not.


Ramirez, now on Death Row in California's San Quentin State Prison, would routinely return to the Cecil at night through the back alley entrance, visible from 7th Street, covered in blood. He would throw his bloody shirts into the Dumpster in the alley and walk up to his room clad only in pants.


from True Crime Notebook (widely reported other places)

Is there a back entrance we do not know of with roof access? It totally makes sense they would have back entrances. Where else would they take deliveries?
Wouldn't this be one of the stairways up the floors featured in some videos people have made of the inside? I would think his movement up to his floor, even though it's a higher one, would be pretty easy to achieve without being noticed... or he could have been noticed, but it didn't particularly stand out given the nature of the hotel. As long as he was wearing pants, I wouldn't think he'd be reported unless his behavior was otherwise alarming.

Or could it could be a stairway that is now not open to the public (or maybe wasn't even open to the public back then)?
 
However, in relation to your question, and because it sort of relates to how people think of this whole thing happening: I've never been convinced, necessarily, that the elevator video was filmed soon before she ended up on the roof. She could have walked down the stairs to her room first, and back up the stairs. Or any number of other activities that didn't happen in front of one of their security cameras, which don't seem to cover the large majority of the hotel's area.

I agree with you that we are making a lot of presumptions based on this video. In this case, it is the only potential evidence we have, so I think conjecture is okay. We get into trouble; however, if we extrapolate based on her elevator behavior to draw conclusions about her manner of death because there are surely things only LE and her family know at this point that substantiates whether this is an accident or homicide.

I don't have any pet theories on what happened to EL but will say that the psychosis accidental death theory loses even further ground for me if we believe she found herself in the water tank hours after the video because if she were roaming the hotel behaving weirdly given the popularity and accessibility to the roof it is likely someone would have reported seeing her. I read that access back into the building from the stairs is every 5 floors due to fire code, so I could see her easily getting trapped in the stairwell. If she had trouble with the elevator buttons I cannot see her figuring out the door pattern.

In my opinion, so much has to occur as random chance with all this if EL did have an accident that it borders on the absurd for me. Those who think she was murdered note that the perp had to have a lot of prior knowledge to pull this off as there were a lot of logistical obstacles otherwise. At the same time a young girl who had never been to this hotel, overcomes the same obstacles while in a psychotic fugue over the course of a few hours? Anything is possible, and frankly demonic possessions and TB conspiracies are starting to look about just as plausible at this point. ha ha.
 
I agree with you that we are making a lot of presumptions based on this video. In this case, it is the only potential evidence we have, so I think conjecture is okay. We get into trouble; however, if we extrapolate based on her elevator behavior to draw conclusions about her manner of death because there are surely things only LE and her family know at this point that substantiates whether this is an accident or homicide.

I don't have any pet theories on what happened to EL but will say that the psychosis accidental death theory loses even further ground for me if we believe she found herself in the water tank hours after the video because if she were roaming the hotel behaving weirdly given the popularity and accessibility to the roof it is likely someone would have reported seeing her. I read that access back into the building from the stairs is every 5 floors due to fire code, so I could see her easily getting trapped in the stairwell. If she had trouble with the elevator buttons I cannot see her figuring out the door pattern.

In my opinion, so much has to occur as random chance with all this if EL did have an accident that it borders on the absurd for me. Those who think she was murdered note that the perp had to have a lot of prior knowledge to pull this off as there were a lot of logistical obstacles otherwise. At the same time a young girl who had never been to this hotel, overcomes the same obstacles while in a psychotic fugue over the course of a few hours? Anything is possible, and frankly demonic possessions and TB conspiracies are starting to look about just as plausible at this point. ha ha.

i agree. The accidental death by misadventure theories seem completely implausible to me based on the circumstances. It was either murder, or accidental manslaughter (drug OD and perp didn't want to explain that to LE). Purposefully ending up at the bottom of the roof water tank is imo just a conclusion based upon a lack of evidence, not on anything even circumstantial (acting a little odd or having a moderate depressive disorder are prevalent throughout society and not useful in determining her manner of death).
 
Most external fire escapes aren't accessible from street level, for security reasons.

The external fire escape for the Cecil Hotel, at least the one at the front, is no different.

From the height of the guy on the sidewalk, it's about 20 feet up to the ladder.

Although I suppose someone in the hotel could drop the ladder to allow someone to climb up.

View attachment 33746


Are we looking at the same picture? The fire escape goes down far enough to be at almost a similar height to the top of the street sign. And, if you count the stories, the fire escape goes down all 14 floors.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/MobileVi...99513-Cecil_Hotel-Los_Angeles_California.html
 
I think your photo is deceptive because of the angle it was taken from.

Here's a close up.

fire escape close up.JPG

Look at the height of the pedestrian, who can be assumed to be about 6 feet tall.

The bottom of the ladder is at least 12 feet up from the sidewalk.

If you think you can jump up and hold onto the base of the ladder, you're missing out on a career as a professional basketball player.
 
I think your photo is deceptive because of the angle it was taken from.

Here's a close up.

View attachment 33771

Look at the height of the pedestrian, who can be assumed to be about 6 feet tall.

The bottom of the ladder is at least 12 feet up from the sidewalk.

If you think you can jump up and hold onto the base of the ladder, you're missing out on a career as a professional basketball player.


That is 1 of 3 ladders. Also, it has a history of people climbing up the ladders to gain access -

"
Austrian Serial Killer Jack Unterweger stayed at the Cecil Hotel for five weeks in 1991 while murdering prositutes.*At night, Unterweger welcomed the hookers who climbed up the Cecil Hotel's fire escape to his room to earn $30. *He also picked up streetwalkers on 7th Street, strangled them with their own bra-straps, then dumped their bodies nearby, naked and posed obscenely. Police suspect Unterweger scoped out the sites ahead of time. *He committed suicide after being convicted for several murders."

http://pantlessalley.blogspot.com/2012/06/hotel-cecils-dark-past.html?m=1
 
I think your photo is deceptive because of the angle it was taken from.

Here's a close up.

View attachment 33771

Look at the height of the pedestrian, who can be assumed to be about 6 feet tall.

The bottom of the ladder is at least 12 feet up from the sidewalk.

If you think you can jump up and hold onto the base of the ladder, you're missing out on a career as a professional basketball player.

Also, fire escapes have drop ladders at the bottom that reach down to the ground... It's not just steps all the way up. It's a drop ladder that can be lowered that leads to the platform and stair steps that lead consecutively to the roof.
 
I agree with you that we are making a lot of presumptions based on this video. In this case, it is the only potential evidence we have, so I think conjecture is okay. We get into trouble; however, if we extrapolate based on her elevator behavior to draw conclusions about her manner of death because there are surely things only LE and her family know at this point that substantiates whether this is an accident or homicide.

I don't have any pet theories on what happened to EL but will say that the psychosis accidental death theory loses even further ground for me if we believe she found herself in the water tank hours after the video because if she were roaming the hotel behaving weirdly given the popularity and accessibility to the roof it is likely someone would have reported seeing her. I read that access back into the building from the stairs is every 5 floors due to fire code, so I could see her easily getting trapped in the stairwell. If she had trouble with the elevator buttons I cannot see her figuring out the door pattern.

In my opinion, so much has to occur as random chance with all this if EL did have an accident that it borders on the absurd for me. Those who think she was murdered note that the perp had to have a lot of prior knowledge to pull this off as there were a lot of logistical obstacles otherwise. At the same time a young girl who had never been to this hotel, overcomes the same obstacles while in a psychotic fugue over the course of a few hours? Anything is possible, and frankly demonic possessions and TB conspiracies are starting to look about just as plausible at this point. ha ha.

I certainly agree that if she were running around for hours, it would be strange if no one saw her--regardless of how she ended up dying. My main points in that post were just that... a) the timeline is very much in questions, and b) I think it's possible that the clothes and such in the video were not the last ones she wore--and this applies to glasses or whatever else, even though I think she left those in Canada, but I'm just clarifying my point :)

As for the theory that foul play wasn't involved, and it was an accidental death or even suicide... I don't dispute that there are issues with that theory based on what we know. However, my reasoning leads to as many issues with a murder theory. No matter how it happened, it's bizarre and almost inherently involved unlikely events.

The misadventure thing makes a lot more sense to me, and feels like the most obvious answer. But being completely open to other theories, I'm curious what specifically seems the most implausible about it to you? Why is it so difficult to believe that she might have already known about the roof and how to access it, ended up deciding to go up there, and simply found the tops of the tanks after climbing the ladder to the highest point, the little rooftop utility building. From there she became interested in the tanks, for whatever reasons, ended up getting into one and ended up dying. To me that doesn't seem any less plausible than foul play, and based on the known evidence, it seems the most likely (despite the nature of the hotel and its residents bringing up any number of circumstantial suspicions about foul play).

Which aspects in particular would you most question about that example scenario?

And just to add (even though you likely know this), manic psychosis would be unlikely to make someone confused abut things like how to get onto a roof or explore, especially if they already know about it. The state can be more about falling into a very distorted sense of oneself, resulting in bizarre decision-making and behavior. Also, if she did go to the roof very soon after the video--which is as likely as anything else--then it's perfectly possible no one would have seen her.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
112
Guests online
2,409
Total visitors
2,521

Forum statistics

Threads
602,015
Messages
18,133,311
Members
231,207
Latest member
ragnimom
Back
Top