Elisa Lam - What Happened?

[2Hip2BSquare]

You know what I never realized that is important about her clothing?

She is wearing flip flops in January. It was cold here. If she were planning on being outside any time when the video were taken she would be wearing warmer clothes (I literally was wearing my parks this jan. here)

Flip flops are used in communal showers. I know that some of the rooms water would run cold and so even ppl staying in rooms with private bath would resort to using the unal shower even if just for the warm water.

At any rate, she is dressed as if she was planning on only staying inside late that night.

Could she have been checking around the 14 floor to see what communal bathroom/shower was open?

ALSO,
Ppl have told stories about being kicked out of the hotel for simply visiting other peoples rooms (even when they themselves are a patron).... And that they were thrown out and unable to even get their belongings. Security guards would ask to see their ID to confirm they were staying at the hotel, but wouldn't let them in their rooms to obtain their IDs.

Also was a security guard that would go around, claim he heard noise complaints, and would ransack the room and then randomly leave. On one such occasion, the patron went to the police. After the police interviewed the patron and guard, they left and the patron found that the hotel had bolted their door and would not allow them in bc they had "called the police and went against security"

It could be a security guard who intimidated Elisa and made her think she was in trouble for going to another room/bathroom/floor. The guard could lead her to her ro, asking for her ID, and when in there could overpower her or assault her.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

She could have been hiding from a security guard. He had the elevator key to stop the elevator possibly do she could not exit the floor. When she gets off the elevator it's almost as if she was trying to explain why she ended up on the 14th floor.

 

[Conductor71]

On a side note which I think is of importance in the case.....when I began seeing a counsellor a couple years back, I told her that I thought I might have Bpd. When she asked me why, I said it was because when I felt happy, it felt crazy. I was energetic and bursting with life in my happy moments. She told me that when a person has depression, feeling happy WILL feel crazy because you're not used to it. She said I've spent so much time depressed that happiness felt almost alien to me. This can explain Elisa's joyous moments, her comments about making friends, etc. it was her natural joyous spirit shining through between bouts of depression. JMO!


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Exactly on the 'mood swing'! I think there are so many positive quotes on her blog that were not all taken into consideration. I really see her as a person who knows she is a bit "different" from others, and she on one hand is proud of that, and on the other she wants to be accepted and fit in. This can also explain her overly effusive manner with people. I see it more likely she feels socially awkward and over compensates not even recognizing she has crossed a line. In other words, her range of what is normal is skewed because she had been wallowing in depression and isolating herself from others.

 

[findinganatta]

Exactly on the 'mood swing'! I think there are so many positive quotes on her blog that were not all taken into consideration. I really see her as a person who knows she is a bit "different" from others, and she on one hand is proud of that, and on the other she wants to be accepted and fit in. This can also explain her overly effusive manner with people. I see it more likely she feels socially awkward and over compensates not even recognizing she has crossed a line. In other words, her range of what is normal is skewed because she had been wallowing in depression and isolating herself from others.

When I think about my own issues with depression, anxiety, and addiction-fueled mania, and I read back on my journals and some early online postings, I realize that no one could possibly understand or diagnose me from what I wrote. This is especially true for my late teens and early 20s, when personal confusion an inability to express myself obscured so many things.

Even if you put all of those factors aside, the truth is that you don't always know people even when you have a personal relationship with them. So a blog is even more oblique, except perhaps in very specific situations or specific entries. EL's blog only strikes me as being useful for determining the strong possibility that she was both very depressed and somewhat manic at times, but that mostly she was a smart, creative, nice person.

 

[findinganatta]

The sad thing is that the great majority of the people who watch these shows probably don't realise they are based *coughough*ripped off*coughcough* on actual people's stories and brutal realities being used as cheap thrills.

I too was thinking, what would Elisa's friends/family think if they knew about it? Not to mention the whole rehashing of the contaminated water drama which already turned the poor girl in to a sick punchline one time around.

But hey if it gets people watching and the bucks keep rolling in.....


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I have never watched those kinds of shows (CSI, etc), but my impression has always been that their fans knew and appreciated that their plots often came right out of real news stories, and generally very recent ones. But I'm mainly going on the commentary of others who do watch them.

 

[findinganatta]

(quote edited for space)
Could she have been checking around the 14 floor to see what communal bathroom/shower was open?

Maybe, but how does that explain the bizarre behavior (and I'm referring both to the hiding and darting out, as well as the very strange body movements)?

(quote edited for space)
Also was a security guard that would go around, claim he heard noise complaints, and would ransack the room and then randomly leave. On one such occasion, the patron went to the police. After the police interviewed the patron and guard, they left and the patron found that the hotel had bolted their door and would not allow them in bc they had "called the police and went against security"

I'm not at all doubting your stories (they're so specific that they seem fascinating), but I'm curious where you heard them? I don't remember reading those here. Where they posted elsewhere online, or does it come from personal knowledge? The anecdotes you mention seem very interesting, even if they have nothing to do with EL.

 

[LittleWing]

When I think about my own issues with depression, anxiety, and addiction-fueled mania, and I read back on my journals and some early online postings, I realize that no one could possibly understand or diagnose me from what I wrote. This is especially true for my late teens and early 20s, when personal confusion an inability to express myself obscured so many things.

Even if you put all of those factors aside, the truth is that you don't always know people even when you have a personal relationship with them. So a blog is even more oblique, except perhaps in very specific situations or specific entries. EL's blog only strikes me as being useful for determining the strong possibility that she was both very depressed and somewhat manic at times, but that mostly she was a smart, creative, nice person.

Absolutely. I think it also depends upon the person. I recently found my old livejournal and read through a great deal of it and came to the conclusion that I found it easy to lay bare the things going on in my life, so if you were to read my LJ you'd get a very good idea of my headspace at the time. That being said, Elisa's writing in her first blog was much more expressive, but her tumblr was certainly mostly pared down and very different from her blog and gave a different impression. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post her blog. If anyone would like the link please pm me.

Came across a couple new photos, credit to a user here:
http://www.douban.com/group/topic/36854905/?r=1

(Sorry in advance if they blow the margins )


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[2Hip2BSquare]

Maybe, but how does that explain the bizarre behavior (and I'm referring both to the hiding and darting out, as well as the very strange body movements)?

I'm not at all doubting your stories (they're so specific that they seem fascinating), but I'm curious where you heard them? I don't remember reading those here. Where they posted elsewhere online, or does it come from personal knowledge? The anecdotes you mention seem very interesting, even if they have nothing to do with EL.

The stories are directly from first person reviews on yelp and trip advisor.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/cecil-hotel-los-angeles#hrid:rzfnRLpndkPMG5S1-pshRg
One from January 2013 by Monique

And from trip advisor:

“Was great for a while, but a problem”
Nov 22, 2007 TorontoEricLA
I stayed at this place a number of times on my trips to LA. Everything was OK by me, I always got my favorite room. Never had a problem until one night there is a banging on my door late at night. I answered and a security guard pushed his way into my room saying he had a noise complaint. Standing outside my door he could have heard if there was any noise or not, but instead he chose to knock and push his way in. He looked in my TV cabinet and then even looked in my clothes closet, then just non-chalantly said "go back to sleep" and left my room. I got dressed and went over to a police precinct a short walk away and complained. The police came back to the hotel with me, one spoke to me, the other to the guard. The next day I went out in the morning for a short time and came back to find a metal plug in my room lock. When I went down and questioned why, they told me I had to leave because I called the police when the security guy was only doing his job. Looking back now, I guess I over-reacted by going to the police, but I couldn't understand why this particular guard did this, because the guards knew me well from coming and going for a few years previous to that visit. I was always on "hello" basis with all of them because I was in and out often on my trips and sometimes they didn't even bother to check my ID any more when I went in and out. I guess I'd stay there again if I had to because the price is unbeatable, but on my visits now I stay at similar place just up the street.
Management response from
blanting2, Management Company President
This sort of thing will not happen at The Cecil again. Based on this review, we have fired the old security company and hired a new one."

YEAH RIGHat!


Also I do believe she was only on a different floor/trying diff floors bc the toilet on hers was occupied.

 

[LittleWing]

The stories are directly from first person reviews on yelp and trip advisor.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/cecil-hotel-los-angeles#hrid:rzfnRLpndkPMG5S1-pshRg
One from January 2013 by Monique

And from trip advisor:

“Was great for a while, but a problem”
Nov 22, 2007 TorontoEricLA
I stayed at this place a number of times on my trips to LA. Everything was OK by me, I always got my favorite room. Never had a problem until one night there is a banging on my door late at night. I answered and a security guard pushed his way into my room saying he had a noise complaint. Standing outside my door he could have heard if there was any noise or not, but instead he chose to knock and push his way in. He looked in my TV cabinet and then even looked in my clothes closet, then just non-chalantly said "go back to sleep" and left my room. I got dressed and went over to a police precinct a short walk away and complained. The police came back to the hotel with me, one spoke to me, the other to the guard. The next day I went out in the morning for a short time and came back to find a metal plug in my room lock. When I went down and questioned why, they told me I had to leave because I called the police when the security guy was only doing his job. Looking back now, I guess I over-reacted by going to the police, but I couldn't understand why this particular guard did this, because the guards knew me well from coming and going for a few years previous to that visit. I was always on "hello" basis with all of them because I was in and out often on my trips and sometimes they didn't even bother to check my ID any more when I went in and out. I guess I'd stay there again if I had to because the price is unbeatable, but on my visits now I stay at similar place just up the street.
Management response from
blanting2, Management Company President
This sort of thing will not happen at The Cecil again. Based on this review, we have fired the old security company and hired a new one."

YEAH RIGHat!


Also I do believe she was only on a different floor/trying diff floors bc the toilet on hers was occupied.

Yeeesh that is SCARY. She was right for doing what she did. That just doesn't seem right.

I highly doubt she had to go all the way up to floor 14 to look for a different toilet when going up or down one floor probably would have done the trick, especially at that time of night.


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[2Hip2BSquare]

Yeeesh that is SCARY. She was right for doing what she did. That just doesn't seem right.

I highly doubt she had to go all the way up to floor 14 to look for a different toilet when going up or down one floor probably would have done the trick, especially at that time of night.


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Isnt there a toilet just to the right of the elevator on the corner where she keeps looking/peeking from the elevator?

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8930074&postcount=233"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3[/ame]

I wish I could post the actual picture here, but don't know how. It shows that there's a restroom on that corner where she keeps staring.

She might seem nervous in the video bc she's trying to find a restroom to use and perhaps she was just waiting for the bathroom via the elevator bc the person waiting for the bathroom in the hallway seemed strange... Maybe even this person had been eyeing her around the communal bathroom area on her own floor which might have made her want to utilize a different bathroom.

I know that if I felt someone was paying attention to my going to the communal restroom/toilet on my floor I would utilize a different floor for the restroom (so as to not be stalked as easy into the restroom or my room upon returning from restroom).

In a place w hostel/communal living that is seedy, it might be wise not to use the restroom on the floor you are staying for security reasons/to avoid predators easily stalking you.

maybe the restrooms on the upper floors are a bit nicer/have better plumbing (as is the case with many buildings with poor plumbing - plumbing in top floors works better).

 

[jetsetsam]

Here's a couple of pics of the communal toilet for you.

The second one is definitely from the 14th floor (floor number on the wall).

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Thank you for those pictures!!!

Also, if she thought some Wierdo was trying to follow her around the hotel,

she might have thought he was getting ready to get on the elevator with her so out of paranoia (rightly so) she pushed all the buttons so as to not only press 4 and give up the floor she was staying on to the creep. I think she was testing him to see if he would follow her around to yet another floor.

When she confronts him the first time she jumps out it seems like she's trying to make it lighthearted so as to not clue him in to the fact that she was aware he was following her. Telling him "so funny to see you, here, too"

Then the second time she leaves the elevator it's almost as if she is confronting him about all of the places she had seen him in the hotel following her around. She even seems to count with her fingers and wave her arm around while explaining this to him.

She said that her mouth, effusive, nature gets her into trouble. She should have waited in the elevator and gone down to the lobby to complain instead of confronting him alone.

This is all in context of yet another theory of mine.

Can't tell you how many stories I hear of sexual predators attacking ppl in/going to the bathroom - they are vulnerable and partly disrobed while in the process of going to the bathroom. Hostel bathrooms are especially scary bc the bathroom can be occupied for quite some time but ppl may think (ESP at seedy Cecil) that a drunk must have passed out in there or someone is using it for sex, or someone simply has a raw stomach.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Plus, as a bipolar once diagnosed as ADD like Elisa, one of the symptoms I have is frequent urination at night time. I'm constantly having to get up to use the restroom bc all day my nerves were impeding my ability to relax and use the bathroom. So at night, when my CNS would finally start chilling out, my muscles would relax and I could finally do my business.

At 5 yo this was my first symptom of mania.

 

[Deleted member 96356]

Hi everyone,

I've enjoyed ducking in and out of this thread while awaiting further evidence. And speaking of evidence... is there ANY new word re: eta for toxicology results?

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Hi everyone,

I've enjoyed ducking in and out of this thread while awaiting further evidence. And speaking of evidence... is there ANY new word re: eta for toxicology results?

Hiya hawks girl! Elisa still has not been forgotten, Thank God.

No toxicology results back yet and I believe we are nearly 2 months over due. They must have found something that lead to further investigation/scrutiny. I would think they would only release the toxicology publicly if it showed a definite COD.

Let's pray they are on to something/someone. Her family deserves much prayer as well. I can't imagine what they must be going through.

Lets hope that If a detective or her family read our theories, no matter how outlandish some may seem, they might stumble upon something important and just that one little clue could blow the case wide open.

RIP Elisa.

 

[findinganatta]

The stories are directly from first person reviews on yelp and trip advisor.

[edited for space]

I would question that post (as I would for any online posting by a random person who might hold a grudge or just be messing around), but the fact that the management replied certainly seems to lend some degree of credence to it!

Thank you for those pictures!!!

Also, if she thought some Wierdo was trying to follow her around the hotel,

she might have thought he was getting ready to get on the elevator with her so out of paranoia (rightly so) she pushed all the buttons so as to not only press 4 and give up the floor she was staying on to the creep. I think she was testing him to see if he would follow her around to yet another floor.

When she confronts him the first time she jumps out it seems like she's trying to make it lighthearted so as to not clue him in to the fact that she was aware he was following her. Telling him "so funny to see you, here, too"

Then the second time she leaves the elevator it's almost as if she is confronting him about all of the places she had seen him in the hotel following her around. She even seems to count with her fingers and wave her arm around while explaining this to him.

She said that her mouth, effusive, nature gets her into trouble. She should have waited in the elevator and gone down to the lobby to complain instead of confronting him alone.

This is all in context of yet another theory of mine.

Can't tell you how many stories I hear of sexual predators attacking ppl in/going to the bathroom - they are vulnerable and partly disrobed while in the process of going to the bathroom. Hostel bathrooms are especially scary bc the bathroom can be occupied for quite some time but ppl may think (ESP at seedy Cecil) that a drunk must have passed out in there or someone is using it for sex, or someone simply has a raw stomach.

My only issue with any theories like are: a) it doesn't seem like she's talking to anyone, and b) there is too bizarre of a pattern of behavior--first she seems paranoid, but then when she's in the hallway she seems like she's doing things that no paranoid person would do. There is a major disconnect between the two mentalities, from my perspective.

That's why I have always related her behavior directly with either psychedelic/drug behavior or natural psychosis. Because that disorganized pattern of behavior fits those mentalities. I've seen plenty of other pieces of real-life video that lacked audio, and it doesn't normally mess with the context to the point that explainable behavior becomes completely bizarre. She literally switches from one whole vibe to another (on a dime) multiple times throughout the video, in body language and even subtle emotional cues. She also engages in some highly unusual body movements and behaviors. The only time I've personally experienced anything that would make me act that way was after taking drugs with psychedelic properties (I know heavy use of speed/coke can cause somewhat similar behavior, but I think it's reasonable to assume was not the case for EL!).

It's very hard to tell if I'm accurately reading into it, but obviously many people came to that conclusion early on, to the point that they had the ecstasy 'expert' lady analyze the video. Ecstasy is the first drug I thought of, completely independently of any news reports or analysis. It would make sense given that she had been out to some clubs. She might not have been the drug-using type, but a lot of people spontaneously try these things a few times in their lives.

That's just my interpretation, though... it's what I see every time I watch that video.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

My only issue with any theories like are: a) it doesn't seem like she's talking to anyone, and b) there is too bizarre of a pattern of behavior--first she seems paranoid, but then when she's in the hallway she seems like she's doing things that no paranoid person would do. There is a major disconnect between the two mentalities, from my perspective.

I understand how it looks strange, but imagine that when she is out of the elevator she is trying to play cool, but while in the elevator we can see her true pensive/paranoid state of mind. I think she was acting differently once out of the elevator because she did not want whoever was outside of it to know that she was beginning to suspect they had strange/I'll intent toward her.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

it's very hard to tell if I'm accurately reading into it, but obviously many people came to that conclusion early on, to the point that they had the ecstasy 'expert' lady analyze the video. Ecstasy is the first drug I thought of, completely independently of any news reports or analysis. It would make sense given that she had been out to some clubs. She might not have been the drug-using type, but a lot of people spontaneously try these things a few times in their lives.

What clubs had she been at? I know she went to a bookstore near the Cecil, but that's the only report I've heard of her "clubbing".

 

[findinganatta]

What clubs had she been at? I know she went to a bookstore near the Cecil, but that's the only report I've heard of her "clubbing".

She blogged about going out to some nightclubs/"speakeasy" in California. That was where the whole 'Italian and Mexican' thing came from, because she was getting hit on by guys. Whether or not she went when she was in L.A. I don't remember exactly, because again, I have not gone back and looked at her blog in a couple of months because it takes so long to load and find things (maybe I'm just clueless with Tumblr).

But she definitely would have been in some environments where she likely would have had the opportunity to get drugs, or might have been offered them. Hell, even on the street in downtown L.A. she could have been offered something like ecstasy, but I would think it would more likely have happened in some type of club, if she did ever procure any drugs.

 

[findinganatta]

I understand how it looks strange, but imagine that when she is out of the elevator she is trying to play cool, but while in the elevator we can see her true pensive/paranoid state of mind. I think she was acting differently once out of the elevator because she did not want whoever was outside of it to know that she was beginning to suspect they had strange/I'll intent toward her.

Oh believe me, I've watched it with that in mind multiple times. I've watched it with probably 30 scenarios in my head, from her acting 'playful' to all kinds of ideas about her running from someone. And of course it's just a subjective thing, but to me there seems to be no communication, and her behavior seems like nothing she would be doing in front of a weird stranger, in my opinion. She also doesn't really focus in one direction. She looks right, no doubt, but she looks in other directions, too. When she's acting out the various behavior (so-called 'box-step', the finger-bending stuff, the wavy arms, etc) it doesn't seem to be directed at anyone or any direction. She's facing the wall most of the time. It looks like I girl interacting with her own mind, and maybe some kind of general outside stimuli that one might hear in a hotel/apt hallway.