Estate of Rebecca Zahau et al v. Shacknai et al

[time]

<snip>There is simply no way a visitor can "walk into" a public or ICU entrance, or "walk out" of a public or ICU entrance, escaping camera detection-- particularly after hours, when door security tightens.

With 100% confidence, I can state that a camera at the entrance of the ICU should have captured her entering the unit. And exiting, at the time she left.
<snip>
Dina should be very, very worried that there is nothing that establishes where she was during the time of Rebecca's death, other than a generalized location of her cell phone.

Dina has to be on there entering AND exiting at least once. Or exiting AND entering. I believe she exited some time between 8-10pm and did not reenter until the next morning. However, she could have entered sometime in the middle of the night. Jonah must know if she was even there between 8pm and 1 am. Even if she was, I guess it's possible Dina actually went to the mansion between 1-3 am.

 

[K_Z]

The investigative technical reports of Dina's phone activity during the time in question will, IMO, also be compelled as crucial evidence. Whatever activity occurred, and the location of the phone during that time, is powerful evidence.

For example, if Dina was at the bedside in the ICU during the entire time, and if her phone was with her at the bedside, then the records should show static positioning of the phone. It may have been handed off between towers, even if the phone position was static, but that would be easy to demonstrate. If the phone demonstrated movement between towers, that would be evident, also.

If Dina claims her phone was with her in the ICU, it would be most helpful to determine what the triangulation SHOULD HAVE shown at the time in 2011 if the phone was pinging towers from inside the ICU. A cell expert could easily figure this out. If Dina is smart, and if she truly believes she was at the bedside during the entire time in question, she should hire a couple of experts to write reports explaining the position and activity on her cell phone. She had no hesitation hiring experts to explore (IMO) a wildly imaginary and highly speculative scenario of how her son's fall occurred. And then going on a media blitz to publicize her expert reports. Does she not care about establishing her own innocence in regard to the extensive and pervasive opinion that she is directly responsible for Rebecca's murder?

Unless she IS responsible for Rebecca's death, and she receives some kind of perverse psychological pleasure from people thinking she is responsible, and (thus far) escaping consequences and criminal charges?? The pleasure of gloating and "getting away with it"??

I'm sure if she had expert reports establishing an iron clad alibi, the talk show hosts would be happy to invite her to discuss them to clear her name. It's a win-win situation for Dina. Spend a little time and money, produce the evidence shutting down the murder speculation, and move on down the road. But she hasn't taken any steps to do this. I wonder why?

Dina's complete cell phone records are very valuable evidence to both sides in the civil suit, so I fully expect they will be meticulously examined.

And that pesky unexplained time stamp from Nina to Rebecca's cell phone really has to be explained, as well. So Nina's cell location and activity is very valuable evidence for both sides in the civil suit. So I fully expect her cell records to be examined meticulously.

And Adam's cell phone activity is ALSO very valuable evidence, since he himself offered up that he was watching *advertiser censored* on his iPhone just before discovering Rebecca's body. So I fully expect his cell activity and records will be examined.

Bring on the discovery process!

 

[Carioca]

Gore took Jonah's word for one heck of a lot: panties belonged to his daughter's friend, the content of the pivotal VM, his whereabouts at the times in question, the time the teens flew out Monday morning, etc. etc. etc.

IIRC Gore never stated Jonah said he and Dina were both together on Tuesday night at Rady's between 8PM and 1AM at which time Jonah allegedly went to RMH to rest before retuning to Rady's on Wednesday morning around 7AM. If indeed they had been together, either Dina or Jonah would have made that fact perfectly clear. But they haven't, have they...

 

[K_Z]

What is a totally understandable explanation is that the lack of the hospital's surveillance equipment filming Dina is b/c she remained by her dying son's bedside.

Remember, according to what Dina (and Nina) have said publicly, neither of them believed, at that point in time, that Max was "dying".

I can believe a mother in shock could be in denial about Max's injuries, accident history, and prognosis. I can believe a parent would not want to believe their child was going to die, and cling to hope. What is very hard for me to believe is that Dina believed this. IMO, her actions do not indicate a mother in denial. I do not believe the doctors lead her to believe Max had a realistic chance of survival, based on the EMS record. And I strongly believe this goes to a motive for Dina to hurt Rebecca, in addition to everything Dina has said publicly in the past 2 years about Rebecca.

We all know now that Max had only a 1-2% chance of survival on admission to Rady, based on the circumstances of the fall, and the EMS record Dina provided to the public.

(Reference the EMS thread for numerous outcome studies of children with blunt head trauma and cardiac arrest in the field.)

 

[*Lash*]

In SW 41432, Det. Keith James listed under his receipt and inventory list 2 items. 1) disc holder with 27 recorded discs and 2) 8 1/2 x 11 piece of paper with evidence log. Dina should have been seen somewhere on the 27 discs and should have checked in at the information desk. Yet, SDSO had to resort to finding her location via her cellphone triangulation? Completely illogical, at least in my opinion. The search warrant requested video of ALL the entrances to Rady Children's Hospital and Health Center from Monday, July 11th, through Wednesday, July 13th at 8am. I hope depositions from the civil suit bring out when Dina was last seen on surveillance, including Nina and Jonah.

Here is information from Rady Children's Hospital regarding patient care.

Visiting Guidelines

&#8226; All visitors must check in at one of the Information Desks, located in the Nelson Family Pavilion (Entrance 9 located on Frost Street), the Rose Pavilion (Entrance 1 located on Children&#8217;s Way) or the Acute Care Pavilion (Entrance 2 located on Children&#8217;s Way). The visitor badge or armband must be worn at all times. Please do not give your badge/armband to anyone else.

http://www.rchsd.org/yourvisit/yourchildshospitalstay/visitingguidelines/index.htm

CONFIDENTIALITY ACKNOWLEDGEMENT & AGREEMENT FORM

7. My access and use of any hospital information system information is subject to routine, random, and undisclosed surveillance by the hospital.

http://www.helpsdkids.org/document.doc?id=8

 

[justice be served]

And I will state again, that if there is ANY evidence in Max's records to establish that she was at the bedside, then why would Dina not produce it and post it on her websites, to shut down all of the speculation? If she truly has an ironclad alibi, then why keep it a secret for 2 years?
IMO, it doesn't exist.

.

[/quote]

snipped and BBM

The reason Dina, or for that matter Jonah, has not produced any evidence indicating their innocence in Rebecca's death is they had felt "covered" by the SDSO ruling of suicide. The last thing they would do IMO is offer up anything at all to answer to those of us who are steadfast in our belief that Rebecca was murdered. Remember, Jonah is a lawyer and he's played his cards pretty much right through this. Now, Dina and Nina are another story entirely.

Nina's long interview in my mind was entirely counterproductive - it just reeked of trying to circumvent the aspersions of guilt. And I am now convinced that Dina's outlandish attempts to blame Rebecca and her sister for Max's death was to defer the blame for Rebecca's murder as well. I think both of these efforts were amateurish at best and most likely were pushed through with either no advice by their experts or ignoring of those experts' advice.

I am very hopeful that, finally, the Zahau's can look at the numerous inconsistencies, lack of investigation and overzealous political maneuvering to close this case as suicide - when it pointed to a murder.:stormingmad:

 

[Mr Spock]

snipped and BBM

The reason Dina, or for that matter Jonah, has not produced any evidence indicating their innocence in Rebecca's death is they had felt "covered" by the SDSO ruling of suicide. The last thing they would do IMO is offer up anything at all to answer to those of us who are steadfast in our belief that Rebecca was murdered. Remember, Jonah is a lawyer and he's played his cards pretty much right through this. Now, Dina and Nina are another story entirely.

Nina's long interview in my mind was entirely counterproductive - it just reeked of trying to circumvent the aspersions of guilt. And I am now convinced that Dina's outlandish attempts to blame Rebecca and her sister for Max's death was to defer the blame for Rebecca's murder as well. I think both of these efforts were amateurish at best and most likely were pushed through with either no advice by their experts or ignoring of those experts' advice.

I am very hopeful that, finally, the Zahau's can look at the numerous inconsistencies, lack of investigation and overzealous political maneuvering to close this case as suicide - when it pointed to a murder.:stormingmad:

IMO:That interview was done out of sheer desperation on Nina and Dina's part. If you look at the timeline, Nina's interview was in October or November, sometime after Anne Bremner received the investigation files and before the Dr Phil show. I think Dina and Nina were absolutely desperate to get any excuse/rationale out there to circumvent how suspicious it was going to look when the public was informed one of them was seen late at night by a family of 4, trying bust into Spreckles.


IMO: Jonah had no clue Nina or Dina were going over there. In his car no less. Think about this. I am sure when Nina and Dina hatched their secret little plan to "wake up Rebecca, late at night", all while driving Jonah's car, they had NO intention of forewarning him. No intention at all. I am convinced Jonah would have put a stop to their little idea immediately. In fact, if I remember correctly, Nina stated in her interview "I didn't tell Jonah I went over to Spreckles late Tuesday night. He didn't know until Wednesday morning when the police showed up at Rady's." Nina said it all right there. Jonah had no clue.

 

[inthedark14]

IMO:That interview was done out of sheer desperation on Nina and Dina's part. If you look at the timeline, Nina's interview was in October or November, sometime after Anne Bremner received the investigation files and before the Dr Phil show. I think Dina and Nina were absolutely desperate to get any excuse/rationale out there to circumvent how suspicious it was going to look when the public was informed one of them was seen late at night by a family of 4, trying bust into Spreckles.


IMO: Jonah had no clue Nina or Dina were going over there. In his car no less. Think about this. I am sure when Nina and Dina hatched their secret little plan to "wake up Rebecca, late at night", all while driving Jonah's car, they had NO intention of forewarning him. No intention at all. I am convinced Jonah would have put a stop to their little idea immediately. In fact, if I remember correctly, Nina stated in her interview "I didn't tell Jonah I went over to Spreckles late Tuesday night. He didn't know until Wednesday morning when the police showed up at Rady's." Nina said it all right there. Jonah had no clue.

I've also never understood why since Nina had Jonah's car, she decided to walk over to Spreckles. Does anyone remember if she stated anything about that in her interview? TIA

ALWAYS MOO

 

[bourne]

IMO:That interview was done out of sheer desperation on Nina and Dina's part. If you look at the timeline, Nina's interview was in October or November, sometime after Anne Bremner received the investigation files and before the Dr Phil show. I think Dina and Nina were absolutely desperate to get any excuse/rationale out there to circumvent how suspicious it was going to look when the public was informed one of them was seen late at night by a family of 4, trying bust into Spreckles.


IMO: Jonah had no clue Nina or Dina were going over there. In his car no less. Think about this. I am sure when Nina and Dina hatched their secret little plan to "wake up Rebecca, late at night", all while driving Jonah's car, they had NO intention of forewarning him. No intention at all. I am convinced Jonah would have put a stop to their little idea immediately. In fact, if I remember correctly, Nina stated in her interview "I didn't tell Jonah I went over to Spreckles late Tuesday night. He didn't know until Wednesday morning when the police showed up at Rady's." Nina said it all right there. Jonah had no clue.

That Nina who's trying to cover her and Dina's own azzes for Rebecca's murder voluntarily made the assertion that Jonah had no knowledge about her going over to Spreckels mansion sounds fishy to me... Unless she was asked specifically by the reporter about Jonah's knowledge about her visit to the Spreckels mansion late Tues night, I'm inclined to believe the opposite...

 

[bourne]

I've also never understood why since Nina had Jonah's car, she decided to walk over to Spreckles. Does anyone remember if she stated anything about that in her interview? TIA

ALWAYS MOO

While I find it suspicious that Nina would borrow Jonah's car instead of her own twin sister Dina's at the hospital, I do not find it strange that Nina walked over to the Spreckels mansion. Dina's house where Nina was staying was but an 8-minute walk to the Spreckels mansion.

 

[inthedark14]

While I find it suspicious that Nina would borrow Jonah's car instead of her own twin sister Dina's at the hospital, I do not find it strange that Nina walked over to the Spreckels mansion. Dina's house where Nina was staying was but an 8-minute walk to the Spreckels mansion.

I can only speculate that she needed it because Dina wasn't there or was planning on leaving.

ALWAYS MOO

 

[K_Z]

Just a quick note to clarify in post 168 above that the very fine comments in the gray quote box are not mine. Credit should be directed to Justice Be Served!

 

[Mr Spock]

IMO I am fairly certain had Jonah known Nina was ordered by Dina to text and wake up Rebecca that night (Dina stated in her magazine interview she requested Nina do this), he NEVER would have given Nina permission to use his car. It only makes sense if you consider the possibility that Dina probably ordered Nina to "ask Jonah" for his car. Consider the possibility that Dina wanted her car to be at Rady's for personal back up. Take in to account that by Nina's own admission she and Dina had not yet informed Jonah of their secret little plan to rattle Rebecca. Suddenly things start to make sense. MOO

 

[K_Z]

IMO:That interview was done out of sheer desperation on Nina and Dina's part. If you look at the timeline, Nina's interview was in October or November, sometime after Anne Bremner received the investigation files and before the Dr Phil show. I think Dina and Nina were absolutely desperate to get any excuse/rationale out there to circumvent how suspicious it was going to look when the public was informed one of them was seen late at night by a family of 4, trying bust into Spreckles.


IMO: Jonah had no clue Nina or Dina were going over there. In his car no less. Think about this. I am sure when Nina and Dina hatched their secret little plan to "wake up Rebecca, late at night", all while driving Jonah's car, they had NO intention of forewarning him. No intention at all. I am convinced Jonah would have put a stop to their little idea immediately. In fact, if I remember correctly, Nina stated in her interview "I didn't tell Jonah I went over to Spreckles late Tuesday night. He didn't know until Wednesday morning when the police showed up at Rady's." Nina said it all right there. Jonah had no clue.

Wow, Mr. Spock-- I completely agree with both of your above paragraphs!

I do agree that Dina and Nina were in "pre-emptive self defense" mode with all of the wordy interviews. They were doing anything and everything at a frenetic pace to change the public and internet dialogue about Rebecca to try to frame her as someone for whom the public should show no sympathy. About the only thing they never said directly was "she had it coming" (cue the music from Chicago/ Jailhouse Tango.)

The family of 4 on bicycles must have caused both of them extreme panic. This family had absolutely no connection to the Shacknais or Romanos, and had no reason to lie or fabricate what they saw. I still think Nina claiming to march over to Spreckles in her new yoga pants and pink Coach wristlet was a cover story for Dina's presence there. I think she knew the hatred Dina held toward Rebecca even before Max's accident, knew or figured she was over there confronting Rebecca, and was going over there to intervene and prevent Dina from assaulting Rebecca. I'm not even convinced Nina thought Dina was capable of murder. I do think Nina knows a whole lot more than she has said about Rebecca's death.

Similarly, I think Jonah knew Dina was on the warpath against Rebecca. But I don't think he knew Dina was on her way to Spreckles to confront Rebecca. He knows all too well what kind of violence Dina is capable of.

I think the reason Jonah hasn't done anything to throw Dina under the bus is that if he does, he throws Adam under the bus, too. And there is also the possibility his older kids were present when Max fell, so that would also weigh on his sense of loyalty, IMO. Adam is a very odd individual, so odd, IMO, that there may be some pathology there, such as high functioning autism. If so, then that could explain Jonah's immediate worries about protection of his brother. JMO, IMO, mooo......

 

[Mr Spock]

That Nina who's trying to cover her and Dina's own azzes for Rebecca's murder voluntarily made the assertion that Jonah had no knowledge about her going over to Spreckels mansion sounds fishy to me... Unless she was asked specifically by the reporter about Jonah's knowledge about her visit to the Spreckels mansion late Tues night, I'm inclined to believe the opposite...

Nina was specifically asked by the reporter something to the effect "when did you tell anyone you had been at Spreckles Tuesday night?" Nina stated to the reporter she first told Jonah and the investigators Wednesday at Rady's "oh... by the way, I was at the house last night". Listen to the interview again. That is what Nina stated to the reporter.

 

[justice be served]

IMO I am fairly certain had Jonah known Nina was ordered by Dina to text and wake up Rebecca that night (Dina stated in her magazine interview she requested Nina do this), he NEVER would have given Nina permission to use his car. It only makes sense if you consider the possibility that Dina probably ordered Nina to "ask Jonah" for his car. Consider the possibility that Dina wanted her car to be at Rady's for personal back up. Take in to account that by Nina's own admission she and Dina had not yet informed Jonah of their secret little plan to rattle Rebecca. Suddenly things start to make sense. MOO

I'll preface this by saying that I know I'm in the minority with this position but.......

Jonah may have been all too willing to give up his car if, in doing so, it assisted the twins in doing their dirty deed. Then his problem was taken care of by proxy. Yes, my opinion speaks to the perhaps misguided belief that others were there the fateful day poor Maxie fell and Rebecca was about to tell the truth and not cover up any longer. I know it's not a popular theory but I can't get past that belief. I believe he is a master manipulator.

 

[inthedark14]

<respectfully snipped by me for space>

I think the reason Jonah hasn't done anything to throw Dina under the bus is that if he does, he throws Adam under the bus, too. And there is also the possibility his older kids were present when Max fell, so that would also weigh on his sense of loyalty, IMO. Adam is a very odd individual, so odd, IMO, that there may be some pathology there, such as high functioning autism. If so, then that could explain Jonah's immediate worries about protection of his brother. JMO, IMO, mooo......

I'll preface this by saying that I know I'm in the minority with this position but.......

Jonah may have been all too willing to give up his car if, in doing so, it assisted the twins in doing their dirty deed. Then his problem was taken care of by proxy. Yes, my opinion speaks to the perhaps misguided belief that others were there the fateful day poor Maxie fell and Rebecca was about to tell the truth and not cover up any longer. I know it's not a popular theory but I can't get past that belief. I believe he is a master manipulator.

I think these are two very important points. As we have all pointed out, both Rebecca and Max's death's are completely related, if one case should be reopened, both cases should be reopened.

Considering the lengths people will go to to protect their children, how far would they go when their hands are tied and the truth is about to come out? We've seen articles scrubbed and evidence lost, mishandled and forgotten in both of these cases. Also we've learned what a PR firm can do, as well as angry individuals, just on the internet alone. As of today, the end result is Jonah and his two surviving children are not named in any lawsuit. IMO there are many guilty people in this mess. Some of them, culpable of covering up the mess that others made while taking lives.

ALWAYS MOO

 

[K_Z]

In SW 41432, Det. Keith James listed under his receipt and inventory list 2 items. 1) disc holder with 27 recorded discs and 2) 8 1/2 x 11 piece of paper with evidence log. Dina should have been seen somewhere on the 27 discs and should have checked in at the information desk. Yet, SDSO had to resort to finding her location via her cellphone triangulation? Completely illogical, at least in my opinion. The search warrant requested video of ALL the entrances to Rady Children's Hospital and Health Center from Monday, July 11th, through Wednesday, July 13th at 8am. I hope depositions from the civil suit bring out when Dina was last seen on surveillance, including Nina and Jonah.

Here is information from Rady Children's Hospital regarding patient care.

Visiting Guidelines

• All visitors must check in at one of the Information Desks, located in the Nelson Family Pavilion (Entrance 9 located on Frost Street), the Rose Pavilion (Entrance 1 located on Children’s Way) or the Acute Care Pavilion (Entrance 2 located on Children’s Way). The visitor badge or armband must be worn at all times. Please do not give your badge/armband to anyone else.

http://www.rchsd.org/yourvisit/yourchildshospitalstay/visitingguidelines/index.htm

CONFIDENTIALITY ACKNOWLEDGEMENT & AGREEMENT FORM

7. My access and use of any hospital information system information is subject to routine, random, and undisclosed surveillance by the hospital.

http://www.helpsdkids.org/document.doc?id=8

Holy cow, Lash!! You are just awesome with the details of this case! I had completely forgotten about the search warrant and the DISCS! So, there IS very likely a preserved record of the security cameras!! From Monday, thru Wed morning at 8 am! It will be possible to demonstrate each and every time Dina shows up, or doesn't show up, on the Rady cameras that were interrogated!

Awesome!!

And, doncha know, I'd be willing to bet that those discs of the surveillance cameras (guessing that is what is on 27 discs!) can be requested/ subpoenaed for the civil discovery!

~~~Happy dance!~~~

 

[IQuestion]

I've also never understood why since Nina had Jonah's car, she decided to walk over to Spreckles. Does anyone remember if she stated anything about that in her interview? TIA

ALWAYS MOO

imo, IMO, In My Opinion, sprinkled with tons of speculation and a dose of common sense:
NR, had to say "she walked" over to the mansion...How else could she counteract the eyewitnesses who saw a woman they identified as DS at the property?
If the witnesses said they saw a woman looking like DS getting out of a car in front of the mansion, I have a sneaking suspicion NR's story would have said she "drove" over. Then of course, if they described the color & make of the car etc...NR would claim they are confused because cars of fraternal twins look so much alike in the dark, too! (People are often confused between black BMW sedans and tan SUV's..wink, wink) Tah-dah:drumroll:...after all, NR knows what everyone does in Coronado, where they go, how safe it is to walk at night, whether or not hugs are suspicious, crime solver extraordinaire, interrogator par excellence, and a damned good speller, too!
I was amazed at how she had an "answer" for everything...including why she couldn't take a lie detector test....oh my.

 

[Serpico]

imo, IMO, In My Opinion, sprinkled with tons of speculation and a dose of common sense:
NR, had to say "she walked" over to the mansion...How else could she counteract the eyewitnesses who saw a woman they identified as DS at the property?
If the witnesses said they saw a woman looking like DS getting out of a car in front of the mansion, I have a sneaking suspicion NR's story would have said she "drove" over. Then of course, if they described the color & make of the car etc...NR would claim they are confused because cars of fraternal twins look so much alike in the dark, too! (People are often confused between black BMW sedans and tan SUV's..wink, wink) Tah-dah:drumroll:...after all, NR knows what everyone does in Coronado, where they go, how safe it is to walk at night, whether or not hugs are suspicious, crime solver extraordinaire, interrogator par excellence, and a damned good speller, too!
I was amazed at how she had an "answer" for everything...including why she couldn't take a lie detector test....oh my.

If the adult eyewitness insisted it was DINA that he saw then why didn't Thompson/Gore set up a lineup of 4 women along with the Romano sisters? Heck, I'm sure Gore could've brought in his wife, asked know-it-all Jan Caldwell from his department and the SDSO female officer( rope knot video specialist) and finally for good measure Gore's good friend SD DA Bonnie Dumanis....so there's your lineup. Geez...maybe DA Dumanis would've suggested to Gore....why not ask the Coronado community for help and ask if anyone saw either one of these women (Dina and Nina current photos) walk back to their house Tuesday night after 10;00pm.