Estate of Rebecca Zahau et al v. Shacknai et al

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Personally, I think they should up the amount from 10 million to 300 million....isn't that the amount the jury in Simi Valley awarded the families of Ron and Nicole...and there wasn't even a conviction in that case!

I think AZlawyer had explained in the legal thread that 10M is only a figurative nominal figure and the plaintiff's final award can be anything :)
 
I'm curious if Maxie's medical records would be brought out for use in the suit. Alibi's may be provided in his records. However, I strongly believe DS and JS would not want these released. I'm sure Rady's which includes Dr. Peterson would prefer the files remain private. Would this be reason in itself for one of the named defendants to negotiate an out of court settlement? I can see it, I pray the Zahau's have the strength to resist the temptations of money and choose to seek answers instead.
 
I'm curious if Maxie's medical records would be brought out for use in the suit. Alibi's may be provided in his records. However, I strongly believe DS and JS would not want these released. I'm sure Rady's which includes Dr. Peterson would prefer the files remain private. Would this be reason in itself for one of the named defendants to negotiate an out of court settlement? I can see it, I pray the Zahau's have the strength to resist the temptations of money and choose to seek answers instead.

They will no doubt in my mind have the courage and strength to resist the tempations of money. They will also no doubt in my mind find themselves unable to override the urge of their legal team and experts to eventually get paid - even if it means by accepting a settlement, which would forever seal the case files. Any millionaires out there willing to lend them a hand to ensure that a settlement never happens?
 
STS - Have you donated to the fund? No need to answer, I'm just being silly :)

BBM - agreed. I am concerned about the pressure to settle. The total amount of donations is far from the needed amount. The civil suit has two new lawyers that we are not become familiar with. Their services may be pro bono, but the investigative work is likely an out of pocket expense. If not pro bono, then the attorneys would benefit from a settlement. That's the way the ball rolls. The family needs our support to avoid a settlement. A settlement will not bring them closure.

I think the family would receive more donations if they provided an anonymous way to donate. Maybe Paypal or a even a mailing address? I know this to be a concern for some people who would like to donate. Maybe the family or lawyers will read this and consider the suggestions?

Maybe I've said this but I do not believe the Zahau's will settle although there are the real concerns for money towards experts and lawyers if they are working on a percentage.

Somehow I doubt a settlement is what they had in mind when they went into this, so hopefully the spirit of their original goal remains intact and the lawyers are on board with that. But I don't know, the lawyers may have taken it in the first place on a percentage basis.

I hope the case is not settled because it would surely mean the remaining files/evidence will not go public. And, it typically means someone is not admitting guilt.

Although a settlement would clearly portray that Dina was afraid of it going forward, wouldn't it?
 
Maybe I've said this but I do not believe the Zahau's will settle although there are the real concerns for money towards experts and lawyers if they are working on a percentage.

Somehow I doubt a settlement is what they had in mind when they went into this, so hopefully the spirit of their original goal remains intact and the lawyers are on board with that. But I don't know, the lawyers may have taken it in the first place on a percentage basis.

I hope the case is not settled because it would surely mean the remaining files/evidence will not go public. And, it typically means someone is not admitting guilt.

Although a settlement would clearly portray that Dina was afraid of it going forward, wouldn't it?

BBM Actually if there is a settlement in a wrongful death suit, it implies the defendants DO admit to SOME personal culpability and responsibility for a victim's death. Otherwise, why would the defendants pay the plaintiffs anything if they did absolutely no wrong?

However, the settlement generally includes a legal stipulation wherein the defendants state that despite their agreement to pay a settlement sum, the defendants are not making any legal admissions of guilt.

Also, there is generally a gag order in the settlement terms that bars both the plaintiffs and defendants from disclosing details of the case and the terms of the settlement. The latter means we, the public, will never know WHY the defendants settled and to what the defendants admitted guilt and/or how much the settlement cost the defendants.
 
BBM Actually if there is a settlement in a wrongful death suit, it implies the defendants DO admit to SOME personal culpability and responsibility for a victim's death. Otherwise, why would the defendants pay the plaintiffs anything if they did absolutely no wrong?

However, the settlement generally includes a legal stipulation wherein the defendants state that despite their agreement to pay a settlement sum, the defendants are not making any legal admissions of guilt.

Also, there is generally a gag order in the settlement terms that bars both the plaintiffs and defendants from disclosing details of the case and the terms of the settlement. The latter means we, the public, will never know WHY the defendants settled and to what the defendants admitted guilt and/or how much the settlement cost the defendants.

BBM.... and we all know SOMEBODY in this scenario has a penchant for GAGS!
 
BBM Actually if there is a settlement in a wrongful death suit, it implies the defendants DO admit to SOME personal culpability and responsibility for a victim's death. Otherwise, why would the defendants pay the plaintiffs anything if they did absolutely no wrong?

However, the settlement generally includes a legal stipulation wherein the defendants state that despite their agreement to pay a settlement sum, the defendants are not making any legal admissions of guilt.

Also, there is generally a gag order in the settlement terms that bars both the plaintiffs and defendants from disclosing details of the case and the terms of the settlement. The latter means we, the public, will never know WHY the defendants settled and to what the defendants admitted guilt and/or how much the settlement cost the defendants.

Yes, I know all that. But implies is the key word! BBM - yes. That's exactly what I meant.

The point being that people settle on whether or not they can win a lawsuit or do not want info to be public, not really on guilt or innocence (as I see it).

But I think it's interesting that AZLawyer does not think there will be a settlement int his case.
 
Just wanted to share for anyone interested. AZlawyer has answered questions from posters regarding the civil suit at the thread below.

Curiosity Never Kills the Cat: Legal Questions for VERIFIED LAWYERS
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202857&page=6

Thanks Lash.

I stand corrected. Even if there is a settlement in the WDS and there's a gag order, the cops can still get their hands on the incriminating evidence on the defendants that were presented in the settlement/civil suit.

This is excellent news because that means any testimonies or evidence put forth in the WDS can be used against the defendants in a future criminal trial :) Sayonara Dina et al. :jail:
 
Yes, I know all that. But implies is the key word! BBM - yes. That's exactly what I meant.

The point being that people settle on whether or not they can win a lawsuit or do not want info to be public, not really on guilt or innocence (as I see it).

But I think it's interesting that AZLawyer does not think there will be a settlement int his case.

BBM - I hope AZLawyer is right. I'm certain those who believe Rebecca was murdered cannot wait for the defendants to be deposed, a jury trial and the words judgment for the plaintiff in the amount of 10 million dollars. It would be a dream if the judge then demands the case be forwarded to the AG for criminal charges. Oh what a glorious day that would be. In my opinion, the true definition of justice for Rebecca, Mary, Snowem, Pari, XZ and their beloved father. Justice for Rebecca!
 
Thanks, *Lash*. I really hope Rebecca's family has the patience and the courage to see the civil lawsuit thru to completion. I hope they are not intimidated by the money and power that wants Rebecca to disappear.

Rebecca's family has a lot of supporters here. I hope they know that!
 
I'm wondering if the feds can investigate this case as a "hate crime". All the elements needed to charge the murderer seem to be 'all in a row'. Course that's my own bias I must admit.
 
Thanks, *Lash*. I really hope Rebecca's family has the patience and the courage to see the civil lawsuit thru to completion. I hope they are not intimidated by the money and power that wants Rebecca to disappear.

Rebecca's family has a lot of supporters here. I hope they know that!

BBM - Just to add...If the Zahau's or their attorneys released Rebecca's files, they have supporters here with various backgrounds and levels of expertise that could possibly aid them in their fight for justice.

:grouphug:
 
I'm wondering if the feds can investigate this case as a "hate crime". All the elements needed to charge the murderer seem to be 'all in a row'. Course that's my own bias I must admit.

Great question! You should ask this on the legal thread. I'm sure one of the legal experts can answer that for you :)
 
Dear AZLawyer,

What is the likeliness this case will be dismissed by the courts without us ever seeing anyone interviewed, etc. My fear remains that something could prevent this civil case from progressing. Would you please tell us what the factors are that could cause this and what you think the likeliness of that happening is? Thanks so much for your time and knowledge to help get justice in this case!
 
Dear AZLawyer,

What is the likeliness this case will be dismissed by the courts without us ever seeing anyone interviewed, etc. My fear remains that something could prevent this civil case from progressing. Would you please tell us what the factors are that could cause this and what you think the likeliness of that happening is? Thanks so much for your time and knowledge to help get justice in this case!

Hi Peaceful!

There is a thread for attorney questions. I hope you don't mind, I am going to repost your question in that thread. I think you have asked a very good question. AZlawyer checks the thread for questions from time to time.

Here is a link to the thread -

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9722483#post9722483"]Curiosity Never Kills the Cat: Legal Questions for VERIFIED LAWYERS - Page 6 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
<snip>

There have been comments here and elsewhere that there are hospital staff who will verify her presence at Max's bedside during the time in question. I'm looking forward to these witnesses being called to clear this up. Hopefully, these nurses and staff documented the presence or absence of parents at the bedside in their notes for Max's care, as their memory alone of who was at the bedside that night is unreliable. For this reason, to alibi Dina, I believe Max's medical records will have to be subpoenaed as evidence in RZ's wrongful death suit that names Dina a defendant/ respondent. Max's records will either document that she was there at a given time, or they will not support that. The absence of the staff documenting her presence would further weaken her explanation for her whereabouts, IMO. The cell phone has an alibi. But the person does not, IMO. At least not at this time. I'm looking forward to the staff and the records answering these questions more fully.

IMO, it is completely unrealistic that Dina would not show up on a single security camera. Hospitals have lots of security cameras, and even more stringent security after hours limiting which entrances and exits can be used, etc. That she could not be seen on any camera in the hospital or RMH is very suspicious, to say the least.

What is a totally understandable explanation is that the lack of the hospital's surveillance equipment filming Dina is b/c she remained by her dying son's bedside.


My attorney relative says they regularly video record depositions if there are conflicting statements that the witness has made. Attorneys use the video to impeach the witness using their own words. There doesn't have to be a video made, but there can be. A court reporter is there regardless of whether the depo is video recorded.

My attorney relative says they also do video records for civil depositions if there is a risk of the witness dying, for example, before the case is concluded. Or for flight risk, if the witness becomes uncooperative.

I would think the spouse, friends, or family members of any witness or plaintiff could not be there unless they were named as a plaintiff, but IANAL, so JMO. To be a plaintiff, you have to show legal standing to bring the suit. I would think MZL's spouse has no legal standing to bring a complaint in RZ's death, or be a part of the complaint group. But an attorney would have to confirm that.

Impeaching a witness most certainly does not require a previously recorded video. Impeaching a witness can occur in numerous ways and they all go toward credibility.

"Impeachment is accomplished by such methods as showing the existence of bias, a prior inconsistent statement, untruthful or dishonest character, or defective ability to observe, remember, or recount the matter about which the witness testifies" - See more at: http://witnesses.uslegal.com/impeachment/#sthash.nTyh1seJ.dpuf

"However, expert testimony is also used to impeach the credibility of a witness" - See more at: http://witnesses.uslegal.com/impeachment/#sthash.nTyh1seJ.dpuf
 

What is totally understandable explanation is that the lack of the hospital's surveillance equipment filming Dina is b/c she remained by her dying son's bedside. [/COLOR



Impeaching a witness most certainly does not require a previously recorded video. Impeaching a witness can occur in numerous ways and they all go toward credibility.



Lets hope for Dina's sake that's possible. Without seeing the videotapes ourselves we have no idea where all the cameras are placed and at what times Dina was viewed entering and leaving the hospital.

I think Dina's credibility has already been damaged by her failing to file a wrongful death lawsuit after her her numerous threats she was going to so.
 

What is a totally understandable explanation is that the lack of the hospital's surveillance equipment filming Dina is b/c she remained by her dying son's bedside.

What is very significant about this often repeated speculation is that even the SDSO didn't say anything even close to this at their press conference. When asked if Dina was seen on security cameras, there is an awkward pause, and then a hesitant and awkward (IMO) explanation that Dina's position was established using triangulation of her cell phone, which placed her "in the vicinity" of Rady. Even Gore himself would not commit to saying that Dina was even INSIDE the hospital! That is a HUGELY significant piece of information about Dina's whereabouts during the time in question.

I will say again that if the best evidence you have for someone who claimed to be on the property, inside a busy pediatric hospital, and inside a pediatric ICU is "cell phone triangulation", then that is a pretty weak alibi. She could have left her phone on a charger in her car in a parking lot or ramp. The location of the phone, in a situation like this, is pretty weak evidence.

And if the civil suit gets to the point that depositions are taken (and I hope it does), I feel that extensive time will be devoted to establishing the exact whereabouts of each of the named defendants during the time in question. These questions will be exceedingly detailed, and require substantiation of others. If someone claimed they were alone, or walking outside, or driving, then cell phone triangulation may be the best that LE could do to establish their whereabouts.

The fact is, Dina claims to be AT THE BEDSIDE in a very busy ICU for hours on end, during the time in question. And there has not been a single shred of evidence beyond Gore's "cell triangulation" that even places her inside the hospital. If there was, Gore's comments would have included something like "Rady security cameras document Dina entering X door entrance at XYZ time. And again entering the unit ICU entrance door at XYZ time. Comments in the child's records and eyewitness staff reports confirm Dina was at the bedside of the child during the time in question." THAT would be an alibi for someone's whereabouts who claims to be in a busy ICU. Dina should appear on a NUMBER of cameras inside Rady, beginning with a parking garage or parking lot. Hospitals are extensively mapped with cameras, and pediatric hospitals have an even higher density of cameras and security features due to worries about child abduction. Every inch of every common area, hallway, sidewalk, cafeteria etc is under surveillance. There is simply no way a visitor can "walk into" a public or ICU entrance, or "walk out" of a public or ICU entrance, escaping camera detection-- particularly after hours, when door security tightens.

With 100% confidence, I can state that a camera at the entrance of the ICU should have captured her entering the unit. And exiting, at the time she left.

I hope that LE directed that a whole bunch of cameras be interrogated to establish that Dina showed up on some of them during OTHER times that she visited Rady. She's not exactly transparent or anything! She can't teleport herself into the ICU to Max's beside, right? She HAD to show up somewhere. She is a tall, distinctive looking woman who would be easy to see.

But now it's 2 years later, and with confidence, I can also say that any evidence from the security cameras has long been written over. I don't think ANY security surveillance still exists to comb thru, since no criminal charges were filed. So all we have left is Max's medical records.

And I will state again, that if there is ANY evidence in Max's records to establish that she was at the bedside, then why would Dina not produce it and post it on her websites, to shut down all of the speculation? If she truly has an ironclad alibi, then why keep it a secret for 2 years?

IMO, it doesn't exist.

IMO, Max's records will be subpoenaed to establish any evidence of her presence or absence in the ICU during the time in question. And also to establish what Dina was told about Max's injuries and prognosis, and when she was told.

Dina should be very, very worried that there is nothing that establishes where she was during the time of Rebecca's death, other than a generalized location of her cell phone.
 

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
169
Guests online
2,123
Total visitors
2,292

Forum statistics

Threads
602,044
Messages
18,133,899
Members
231,219
Latest member
Bubbajax
Back
Top