Estate of Rebecca Zahau et al v. Shacknai et al

[*Lash*]

http://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/casdce/3:2013cv01624/419200/

 

[defense101]

Would this count as Dina already protecting herself, property is in a trust (January 2013)?

Does transferring your assets into a Revocable Living Trust protect them against creditors, lawsuits, and divorce? The answer to this question is a resounding NO - a Revocable Living Trust offers absolutely no asset protection for you and your property.

http://wills.about.com/od/overviewoftrusts/qt/assetprotectionandtrusts.htm

 

[*Lash*]

Respectfully snipped for context -

Thank you. I'm aware of the controversy regarding the nature of their relationship, as it has been thoroughly discussed on this site. IMHO, however, I happen to believe that XZ was in fact Rebecca's daugther. Not only because of the uncanny resemblance; I recall RZ telling TG that XZ was her daughter. It makes sense to me that RZ would've refered to MS as her son, because it appears that she might've indeed loved him as her own. It makes absolutely no sense that she would've also told him that XZ was her daugther...

...unless it was actually the truth, which I too would've easily disclosed in her emotional state after Maxie's accident. And, yes, I also believe that it was an accident. Because I've seen first-hand what harm kids can inadvertently do to each other while horsing around, rough-playing, chasing each other around the house, etc., and how quickly it can spiral out of control when dogs - and in Maxie's case even a scooter - are somehow involved.

Hi STS-135!

Since you're a new poster I assumed your comment was either a typo or misinformation, my apologies.

I respect your opinion and theories. That is the great thing about WS and other forums, we can all have different opinions and theories. I don't necessarily agree with the speculation concerning Rebecca having a daughter. I also don't find it to be impossible. Right now, I have not seen anything to prove this to be true. I feel the same in regards to the speculation the other 2 Shacknai children were home at the time of Maxie's accident. Yes it is possible, but I have not seen proof. In respect to Rebecca having a daughter, I don't find it to be a contributing factor in what I believe was a murder and Maxie an accident. It simply does not matter to me whether Rebecca was a mother or not. Many children are born out of wedlock and because of the mothers age they are raised by their grandparents. It is not that uncommon. In my opinion, it is not relevant to either case. It plays no part in either death.

 

[Betty P]

I agree, Lash. The rumors of XZ being RZ's daughter are nothing more than another "red herring" like so many others that have been floated to distract pursuit of a full investigation. I'm not sure what some people hope to accomplish in pushing it, but it's had zero impact on the overall investigation. Perhaps the rumor has some purpose in someone's twisted mind, but it only makes sense there.

 

[K_Z]

A few things I feel optimistic about.

1. Repondents (defendants) in a civil suit cannot refuse to be deposed during discovery.

2. If deemed necessary, the plaintiff's attorneys can request a subpoena in the state and district in which the respondents (defendants) reside. (Diversity jurisdiction.) I'm told these are ridiculously easy to obtain, once a complaint is filed in another state. And they are a nice insurance policy that the respondents will actually show up for deposition. The respondents can ask to be deposed in their home location-- plaintiff's attorneys will travel to them.

3. Every aspect of a respondent's personal assets (property, $$, etc) is fair game for questioning in discovery. The respondent cannot refuse to answer, as there is no criminal complaint to "take the 5th" for. If someone lies under oath, now....THAT is a problem that can come back with severe consequences.

4. The plaintiff/s are entitled to sit RIGHT THERE in the room during deposition of the respondents. Of course, the plaintiff/s would have to pay their own travel expenses to wherever the location of the deposition of the respondent takes place, but they CAN be right there at the table. Quietly, of course. But they can BE THERE.

Now, all that makes me feel rather content about the civil suit process for a while. Becky's sister and mother can BE THERE at the depositions of the respondents. We may not hear every detail, but THEY WILL, if they go. I'm very hopeful that Mary Zahau and Pari will have the resources to travel as much as necessary to be there at every crucial step, with all the witnesses and respondents during discovery. Hopefully, the southern San Diego federal district is a "Rocket Docket" region! That would make me very happy for Mary and Pari.

 

[IQuestion]

A few things I feel optimistic about.

1. Repondents (defendants) in a civil suit cannot refuse to be deposed during discovery.

2. If deemed necessary, the plaintiff's attorneys can request a subpoena in the state and district in which the respondents (defendants) reside. (Diversity jurisdiction.) I'm told these are ridiculously easy to obtain, once a complaint is filed in another state. And they are a nice insurance policy that the respondents will actually show up for deposition. The respondents can ask to be deposed in their home location-- plaintiff's attorneys will travel to them.

3. Every aspect of a respondent's personal assets (property, $$, etc) is fair game for questioning in discovery. The respondent cannot refuse to answer, as there is no criminal complaint to "take the 5th" for. If someone lies under oath, now....THAT is a problem that can come back with severe consequences.

4. The plaintiff/s are entitled to sit RIGHT THERE in the room during deposition of the respondents. Of course, the plaintiff/s would have to pay their own travel expenses to wherever the location of the deposition of the respondent takes place, but they CAN be right there at the table. Quietly, of course. But they can BE THERE.

Now, all that makes me feel rather content about the civil suit process for a while. Becky's sister and mother can BE THERE at the depositions of the respondents. We may not hear every detail, but THEY WILL, if they go. I'm very hopeful that Mary Zahau and Pari will have the resources to travel as much as necessary to be there at every crucial step, with all the witnesses and respondents during discovery. Hopefully, the southern San Diego federal district is a "Rocket Docket" region! That would make me very happy for Mary and Pari.

KZ thanks for the infor...ARE THESE DEPOSITIONS "RECORDED" OR CAN THEY BE FILMED?Or are all the questions and answers recorded by a stenographer? Will MZL's spouse be able to sit in....I'd really like him to be sitting in wheN AS does his deposition. I feel a MAN (especially one held in high esteem by others and has a good moral compass) will be better able to perceive sincerity or deception in another man.

 

[K_Z]

(Moving this post from the 911 thread, as it fits better here.)

IMO, of the 3 named defendants/ respondents, the explanation for Dina's alibi/ whereabouts is the weakest. If LE have to resort to using cell pings to locate someone who claims to have been in a large hospital during the time in question, that is a very weak piece of evidence. The public doors and public places within large urban hospitals have many security cameras. Dina should have been on several of them.

There have been comments here and elsewhere that there are hospital staff who will verify her presence at Max's bedside during the time in question. I'm looking forward to these witnesses being called to clear this up. Hopefully, these nurses and staff documented the presence or absence of parents at the bedside in their notes for Max's care, as their memory alone of who was at the bedside that night is unreliable. For this reason, to alibi Dina, I believe Max's medical records will have to be subpoenaed as evidence in RZ's wrongful death suit that names Dina a defendant/ respondent. Max's records will either document that she was there at a given time, or they will not support that. The absence of the staff documenting her presence would further weaken her explanation for her whereabouts, IMO. The cell phone has an alibi. But the person does not, IMO. At least not at this time. I'm looking forward to the staff and the records answering these questions more fully.

IMO, it is completely unrealistic that Dina would not show up on a single security camera. Hospitals have lots of security cameras, and even more stringent security after hours limiting which entrances and exits can be used, etc. That she could not be seen on any camera in the hospital or RMH is very suspicious, to say the least.

 

[K_Z]

KZ thanks for the infor...ARE THESE DEPOSITIONS "RECORDED" OR CAN THEY BE FILMED?Or are all the questions and answers recorded by a stenographer? Will MZL's spouse be able to sit in....I'd really like him to be sitting in wheN AS does his deposition. I feel a MAN (especially one held in high esteem by others and has a good moral compass) will be better able to perceive sincerity or deception in another man.

My attorney relative says they regularly video record depositions if there are conflicting statements that the witness has made. Attorneys use the video to impeach the witness using their own words. There doesn't have to be a video made, but there can be. A court reporter is there regardless of whether the depo is video recorded.

My attorney relative says they also do video records for civil depositions if there is a risk of the witness dying, for example, before the case is concluded. Or for flight risk, if the witness becomes uncooperative.

I would think the spouse, friends, or family members of any witness or plaintiff could not be there unless they were named as a plaintiff, but IANAL, so JMO. To be a plaintiff, you have to show legal standing to bring the suit. I would think MZL's spouse has no legal standing to bring a complaint in RZ's death, or be a part of the complaint group. But an attorney would have to confirm that.

 

[IQuestion]

My attorney relative says they regularly video record depositions if there are conflicting statements that the witness has made. Attorneys use the video to impeach the witness using their own words. There doesn't have to be a video made, but there can be. A court reporter is there regardless of whether the depo is video recorded.

My attorney relative says they also do video records for civil depositions if there is a risk of the witness dying, for example, before the case is concluded. Or for flight risk, if the witness becomes uncooperative.

I would think the spouse, friends, or family members of any witness or plaintiff could not be there unless they were named as a plaintiff, but IANAL, so JMO. To be a plaintiff, you have to show legal standing to bring the suit. I would think MZL's spouse has no legal standing to bring a complaint in RZ's death, or be a part of the complaint group. But an attorney would have to confirm that.

BBM: Thanks KZ..your attorney relative is providing some great info.
Thanks for asking the questions, and providing the answers for us...

 

[time]

Just FYI about Adam being paid off or buying a house since I just looked it up again. He bought a very modest house (actually I think it is a condo/row house/etc) and took out a mortgage. It's possible he put about $4k down on it (not sure the mortgage is for $147.2k). I don't think this looks like any kind of payoff or probably even any monetary help from his bro.

Sold for $151,000 on Jan 17, 2012
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1564-Eastmoreland-Ave_Memphis_TN_38104_M78638-28741

Picks from inside
http://marthabailey.blueroof360.com...1564-EASTMORELAND-AVE-MEMPHIS-Shelby-TN-38104

Mortgage
http://register.shelby.tn.us/imgView.php?imgtype=pdf&id=120057652012

 

[IQuestion]

snipped from TIME's post:
Just FYI about Adam being paid off or buying a house since I just looked it up again. He bought a very modest house (actually I think it is a condo/row house/etc) and took out a mortgage. It's possible he put about $4k down on it (not sure the mortgage is for $147.2k). I don't think this looks like any kind of payoff or probably even any monetary help from his bro.

Yeah....everything is relative! Compared to the plain, brick apartment bldg (AS's prev residence)...where the window air conditioners had "cages" around them to keep them from being stolen....a 147K condo MIGHT seem like a mansion! From Trulia average price of Memphis home "sold" is
$143,208 and the average price of a Paradise Valley home "sold" is $1,691,786. The ironic part, is if I was given a choice, I would pick Memphis because I don't like the desert terrain and the heat is just too much. Yeah, yeah I know...."but it is a dry heat." (e-smile!)

 

[K_Z]

A nice read, if you have a bit of extra time and are wondering about the rules of federal civil procedure! I think it's possible we will begin to see entries on the docket about discovery actions in the next 4-6 weeks.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/

 

[*Lash*]

Carried over to stay on topic...oops, I first posted this in the wrong thread.

Hence ONE of the reasons this investigation in my opinion was flawed! If you look at the totality of evidence gathered vs what is missing, maybe 50% of this investigation was looked at as a homicide. Then the group think tendency began and it was decided this was a suicide. Possible public influence as well from some of the characters in this case. Had all the evidence been properly tested, responsibly requested, all possible witnesses interviewed, everyone fingerprinted, everyone polygraphed and confirmation bias not existed, we would not be here today fighting for a murder victim. In my opinion, SDSO would have concluded this was a murder, arrests made and maybe even a conviction by now. I pray this civil suit is NOT settled or negotiated. If so, the family will never know the truth and in my opinion a murderer will walk free to murder an innocent victim again.

As always, Lash, very well stated. And IMO this stands for the investigations into both MS' and RZ's deaths.

If SDSO and CPD had officially interviewed witnesses at all pertinent and relevant locations (airports, airlines, gyms, hospitals, ADT security, GPS provider), confirmed everyone's alibis and whereabouts (DS and NR's friends, NR cousin, JS father and HL), and processed all those who could in any way have been involved in some form or another, so many questions would have been put to rest long ago for BOTH families.

I cannot imagine the horror and humiliation it must be to have one's family and loved ones' names tossed about, their character questioned and speculated upon by the media and strangers. As we have all said at one point or another, if you are innocent, then there is nothing to hide. And that goes for LE as well. I would imagine they will all welcome the chance to depose.

I shudder at the thought of the civil suit not seeing its day in court, that the TRUTH in both cases may never be known, whatever that truth may be. Admittedly, the plaintiffs are up against more than one Goliath. The temptation to negotiate a settlement must be enormous. Unless in their shoes, it is unfair to judge. Yet, I question: is there is a price tag with enough zeroes at the end to exonerate the cold-blooded murderer of a stranger, let alone a loved one; a loved one who was not only tortured and murdered once, but over and over again when her body was left out to rot like road varmint, her character assassinated by the one who most despised her?

I have tremendous faith that the plaintiffs, ML and RZ's mother, will continue forward in their pursuit of the truth. Veritas liberabit vos. The truth shall set you free. In the event there were to be a settlement, there is only one person who has the funds to make this go away. In such a high-profile case as this, IMHO that one unnamed person will ultimately and forever be judged, in the court of public opinion, as guilty and responsible for RZ's death. Quite a price to pay IMO, thus no one wins.

Thank you for this great post!

I asked a question in the verified lawyer thread about the amount of the civil suit. Whether the 10mil was jointly or individually. It appears it would be jointly. If the 3 divided the amount, they would be looking at a little over 3 million each. Of course, I would expect the amount to be much smaller if there is a settlement in this case. There is only one person in this case with the means to settle. I guess a couple of the defendants could have sources other than JS, but I think JS would likely benefit from settling this case. Therefore I am skeptical we're ever going to see depositions. It would be disheartening on many levels. I personally think it would be an injustice to Rebecca and Max. After two years of fighting for justice and being so close to the truth, money would take a back seat if it meant I could bring closure to the murder of my loved one. I agree I cannot pretend to know how the Zahau's must feel, but I would want truth not money. If you think about it, influence and money are in my opinion is a big reason we are even here today fighting for justice. A negotiation would reinforce the belief that money does indeed talk. All the accusations that have been made about the real intentions of Rebecca's family is soley to seek money, not justice, will forever be believed. I won't pretend to know what Rebecca would want, but if I were Rebecca I would want the truth to be revealed, my legacy to be righted and the world to know that I DID NOT commit suicide.

 

[*Lash*]

If this suit is going forward without interruption, does anyone know how long it might be before we see any movement? Does anyone else have an opinion on what might happen, settlement vs truth?

(Sorry, I moved these posts to the wrong thread. They are in the correct thread now!)

 

[K_Z]

If this suit is going forward without interruption, does anyone know how long it might be before we see any movement? Does anyone else have an opinion on what might happen, settlement vs truth?

(Sorry, I moved these posts to the wrong thread. They are in the correct thread now!)

If they don't settle, the federal rules of civil procedure have some information about initial timelines. (IANAL, so I don't know how accurate these are in practice.)

Rule 16. Pretrial Conferences; Scheduling; Management

(a) Purposes of a Pretrial Conference. In any action, the court may order the attorneys and any unrepresented parties to appear for one or more pretrial conferences for such purposes as:

(1) expediting disposition of the action;

(2) establishing early and continuing control so that the case will not be protracted because of lack of management;

(3) discouraging wasteful pretrial activities;

(4) improving the quality of the trial through more thorough preparation; and

(5) facilitating settlement.

(b) Scheduling.

(1) Scheduling Order. Except in categories of actions exempted by local rule, the district judge—or a magistrate judge when authorized by local rule—must issue a scheduling order:

(A) after receiving the parties’ report under Rule 26(f); or

(B) after consulting with the parties’ attorneys and any unrepresented parties at a scheduling conference or by telephone, mail, or other means.

(2) Time to Issue. The judge must issue the scheduling order as soon as practicable, but in any event within the earlier of 120 days after any defendant has been served with the complaint or 90 days after any defendant has appeared.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_16

(C) Time for Initial Disclosures—In General. A party must make the initial disclosures at or within 14 days after the parties’ Rule 26(f) conference unless a different time is set by stipulation or court order, or unless a party objects during the conference that initial disclosures are not appropriate in this action and states the objection in the proposed discovery plan. In ruling on the objection, the court must determine what disclosures, if any, are to be made and must set the time for disclosure.

(D) Time for Initial Disclosures—For Parties Served or Joined Later. A party that is first served or otherwise joined after the Rule 26(f) conference must make the initial disclosures within 30 days after being served or joined, unless a different time is set by stipulation or court order.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_26

Of course, settlement of the civil suit is always a possibility, IMO.

I am hopeful (perhaps foolishly hopeful), that the family will have their day in court, even if it isn’t criminal court. I would like to see the case proceed to discovery, subpoenas, and depositions—which, I’m sure the defendants would like to avoid at all costs. (I’m even so foolishly hopeful that perhaps civil discovery could lead to criminal charges.) Putting the defendants thru discovery and depositions would be a giant step in the right direction for truth, IMO.

If the case makes it to a jury, and that is a very long road, I have every confidence that a jury of 6 reasonable people will see this for what it is, and hold these defendants accountable. I would like to see a judgment against the defendants, not a settlement that again allows them to avoid responsibility for their actions.

Having said that, with the money that is potentially available to Dina, Nina, and Adam (all of it coming from Jonah’s pockets, IMO), I also think a settlement would be offered for the full $10 million, if not in EXCESS of $10 million, just to make it all go away.

The bulk of Dina’s wealth is Jonah’s money from the divorce settlement (she had little means before her marriage to Jonah, and was in medical sales, and then a part time psychologist making peanuts). It has been said that Dina supports Nina and her family, and Adam is a tugboat operator. So, it’s all Jonah’s $$, IMO.

If they settle, I’m sure the terms will be confidential. I hope they don’t settle.

 

[Nom de plume]

If this suit is going forward without interruption, does anyone know how long it might be before we see any movement? Does anyone else have an opinion on what might happen, settlement vs truth?
(Sorry, I moved these posts to the wrong thread. They are in the correct thread now!)

BBM I would certainly hope, and expect the family to see it through to trial, regarless of the settlement they might be offered. I believe they might see this as the only chance for justice for Rebecca, as it may well be. Or as others have said, maybe some testimony could lead to criminal charges being filed as well. IMO, the truth and clearing her name are (or should) more important to them than money. I'll be shocked if they settle.

 

[*Lash*]

BBM I would certainly hope, and expect the family to see it through to trial, regarless of the settlement they might be offered. I believe they might see this as the only chance for justice for Rebecca, as it may well be. Or as others have said, maybe some testimony could lead to criminal charges being filed as well. IMO, the truth and clearing her name are (or should) more important to them than money. I'll be shocked if they settle.

I'm sure a settlement of even 5 mil would be hard to turn down. I agree, this is likely the last chance the family has in obtaining justice for Rebecca. I have faith the Zahau's are not out for monetary gain. I believe answers are more important to them than the money and setting the record straight, Rebecca's death was not a suicide. All of the background noise about the families true intent to seek money, is not true. The love for their daughter, sister and aunt speaks volumes. The fight they have endured has always been genuine and they have remained respectful. I too would be shocked if they settled. Justice for Rebecca is more important to them than money. Money has its temptations, but it will not allow Rebecca to rest in peace nor the family.

 

[STS-135]

I'm sure a settlement of even 5 mil would be hard to turn down. I agree, this is likely the last chance the family has in obtaining justice for Rebecca. I have faith the Zahau's are not out for monetary gain. I believe answers are more important to them than the money and setting the record straight, Rebecca's death was not a suicide. All of the background noise about the families true intent to seek money, is not true. The love for their daughter, sister and aunt speaks volumes. The fight they have endured has always been genuine and they have remained respectful. I too would be shocked if they settled. Justice for Rebecca is more important to them than money. Money has its temptations, but it will not allow Rebecca to rest in peace nor the family.

ON TOPIC

I too would also turn down any amount of money just to get the answers I was deprived of in my Father's case. However, if my very expensive team of attorneys, experts and researchers began to run out of funds to be able to take the case all the way to a successful conclusion, or out of the willingness to do everything probono and/or free in the case of the experts, they too would no doubt be putting a great deal of pressure on me to accept a settlement - especially if the family is sued for libel and slandering as is likely to happen. Has everyone already donated to the fund? Can you donate more? Can you ask others to donate too?

OFF TOPIC

My wife was unwillingly dragged into a sexual harrasment suit many years ago. She too had experienced the harrassment first hand but deflected it as best she could while she looked for another job. When she testified on the victim's behalf, her manager sued us both for libel and slandering. We sued him back, and this time my wife also filed her own sexual harrassment claim. There was absolutely no reason our legal team could anticipate why we would not win both cases, or so they told us repeatedly; but we'll never know if they were right or not, because we chose to setlle against their advise when we realized something: Even if we won both cases eventually, the already mounting legal fees would've consumed the bulk of any settlement. Thus, we were forced to negotiate and accept a mediocre offer while we were still ahead. I ask again, has everyone here already donated to the fund? Can you please donate more? Can you please ask others to donate too?

Thank you.

 

[*Lash*]

ON TOPIC

I too would also turn down any amount of money just to get the answers I was deprived of in my Father's case. However, if my very expensive team of attorneys, experts and researchers began to run out of funds to be able to take the case all the way to a successful conclusion, or out of the willingness to do everything probono and/or free in the case of the experts, they too would no doubt be putting a great deal of pressure on me to accept a settlement - especially if the family is sued for libel and slandering as is likely to happen. Has everyone already donated to the fund? Can you donate more? Can you ask others to donate too?

OFF TOPIC

My wife was unwillingly dragged into a sexual harrasment suit many years ago. She too had experienced the harrassment first hand but deflected it as best she could while she looked for another job. When she testified on the victim's behalf, her manager sued us both for libel and slandering. We sued him back, and this time my wife also filed her own sexual harrassment claim. There was absolutely no reason our legal team could anticipate why we would not win both cases, or so they told us repeatedly; but we'll never know if they were right or not, because we chose to setlle against their advise when we realized something: Even if we won both cases eventually, the already mounting legal fees would've consumed the bulk of any settlement. Thus, we were forced to negotiate and accept a mediocre offer while we were still ahead. I ask again, has everyone here already donated to the fund? Can you please donate more? Can you please ask others to donate too?

Thank you.

STS - Have you donated to the fund? No need to answer, I'm just being silly

BBM - agreed. I am concerned about the pressure to settle. The total amount of donations is far from the needed amount. The civil suit has two new lawyers that we are not become familiar with. Their services may be pro bono, but the investigative work is likely an out of pocket expense. If not pro bono, then the attorneys would benefit from a settlement. That's the way the ball rolls. The family needs our support to avoid a settlement. A settlement will not bring them closure.

I think the family would receive more donations if they provided an anonymous way to donate. Maybe Paypal or a even a mailing address? I know this to be a concern for some people who would like to donate. Maybe the family or lawyers will read this and consider the suggestions?

 

[IQuestion]

Personally, I think they should up the amount from 10 million to 300 million....isn't that the amount the jury in Simi Valley awarded the families of Ron and Nicole...and there wasn't even a conviction in that case!