Evidence #2

[chicoliving]

So is the office a separate room from the bedroom?? For some reason I've been stuck on the bedroom served as an office also....

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

So is the office a separate room from the bedroom?? For some reason I've been stuck on the bedroom served as an office also....

It's the 3rd bedroom in the house. As far as I know, it's set up as an office with no bedroom furniture.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

If Raven is innocent, I would guess that he made some assumptions at the scene that he used in reporting to 911 and LE.

Good point.

ETA: So the only hope of interpreting this is if it is somehow clear that Janet was already deceased when Raven found her. Otherwise, it's all subjective.

 

[mysteriew]

Okay, in case it doesn't take you to the specific page, it's on page 10.

Swabbings & controls, (which means that they were swabbing a specific something, correct?), from:

- the kitchen counter
- the master bathroom floor
- opposite wall of victim in office
- desk door
- back of desk
- wall adjacent to the victim
- carpet from below the victim

I'm curious - why would they swab the desk door, (most likely the front of the desk), as well as the back of the desk? I don't know how the desk was situated in the room but that struck me as odd.

I don't know about in LE investigative terminology, but a control is usually a "clean" sample. For instance if they were to test a stain- a swab would be taken of the stain, and a control would be a swab of an area that was free of the stain. Thus in analyzing the control would help to establish what was diffent in the stained swab.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I don't know about in LE investigative terminology, but a control is usually a "clean" sample. For instance if they were to test a stain- a swab would be taken of the stain, and a control would be a swab of an area that was free of the stain. Thus in analyzing the control would help to establish what was diffent in the stained swab.

So then it is true that a swab with a control would be done on a specific stain that they would like to look into further, not just on a general area.

 

[mysteriew]

So then it is true that a swab with a control would be done on a specific stain that they would like to look into further, not just on a general area.

That would be my guess. Since the control is to rule out contaminates.

 

[texasgirl]

I believe Paramedics have to wait for police to arrive before going in on calls like this one. Does anyone know how this works. I thought this is something I have heard in the past, that the police must go in first BEFORE the paramedics because of the nature of the crime. Usually when someone in our family called the paramedics, though the paramedics arrived first, they basically wait until the squad arrives and the police enter the residence first.

Anyone know the rules of this?

My fiance' is in LE and that is indeed the way it works. Paramedics, Fire Department, etc are not allowed to go in until a scene has been cleared of any risk to them. I know that on occasion, it still happens but the rule is that they must wait for LE to access the situation and make sure that Paramedics and Fire officials are not at risk. That's the way it is here anyway...

 

[mysteriew]

My fiance' is in LE and that is indeed the way it works. Paramedics, Fire Department, etc are not allowed to go in until a scene has been cleared of any risk to them. I know that on occasion, it still happens but the rule is that they must wait for LE to access the situation and make sure that Paramedics and Fire officials are not at risk. That's the way it is here anyway...

Years ago I ran squad, and that was the rule for us also. LE checks the scene to make sure it is safe (free of suspects) before allowing rescue into it. We even staged in an area nearby at times, waiting until LE cleared the scene. Only when the scene was determined to be free of any suspects, would we be allowed into it to treat the injured.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

My fiance' is in LE and that is indeed the way it works. Paramedics, Fire Department, etc are not allowed to go in until a scene has been cleared of any risk to them. I know that on occasion, it still happens but the rule is that they must wait for LE to access the situation and make sure that Paramedics and Fire officials are not at risk. That's the way it is here anyway...

Makes perfect sense. And the articles and the information contained in the search warrant all seem to support the idea that the officer was indeed the first one to enter the residence that night.

Bottom line - either Janet was not in a kneeling position, or that is the way that Raven stated he found her, and he moved her before anyone arrived on the scene. ETA: So how exactly did that end up in the most recent article? Would the ME's report include Raven's statements about how she was found?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Yes a knife makes a slit wound and a gunshot makes a hole, so you think that they would look different. However, the truth is that after a gunshot- the tissue collapses into the void- sometimes leaving the appearance of a slit to an untrained, emotional observer.

Am I understanding you correctly - that a gunshot can look like a slit (stabbing)? We're wondering about it the other way around - can a stabbing look like a gunshot? ETA: In a link I posted earlier, there's a video with a diagram of the wounds, and next to the two wounds that were visible in the diagram, it says 1". I can't be sure but I was assuming that that was the width of the wounds. I don't know if that gives you a better idea of how likely or unlikely it would be that the wounds would appear to be gunshot wounds rather than stab wounds.

 

[mysteriew]

Am I understanding you correctly - that a gunshot can look like a slit (stabbing)? We're wondering about is the other way around - can a stabbing look like a gunshot? ETA: In a link I posted earlier, there's a video with a diagram of the wounds, and next to the two wounds that were visible in the diagram, it says 1". I can't be sure but I was assuming that that was the width of the wounds. I don't know if that gives you a better idea of how likely or unlikely it would be that the wounds would appear to be gunshot wounds rather than stab wounds.

It depends on the caliber of the gun, the distance of the shot, and the experience of the person who sees it. For instance an LE officer would look for an exit wound. A person seeing their loved one wouldn't even necessarily think about it. A small caliber weapon entering the body would leave a small hole going in, and a larger one going out. A large caliber weapon would leave a larger hole going in, and a really big one going out. But both "holes" would collapse upon itself- with the smaller hole looking more like a slit. In diagrams they show it as a hole, but in reality it will look more like a slit.
Edited to add: A knife wound where the knife is twisted in the wound, can leave a hole.
This is why LE ususally won't say whether a person is shot or stabbed until after an autopsy.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Okay, so a gunshot CAN appear to be a stabbing but not necessarily. BUT can a stabbing look like a gunshot?

 

[mysteriew]

Okay, so a gunshot CAN appear to be a stabbing but not necessarily. BUT can a stabbing look like a gunshot?

Yes, I edited my above post. If the knife is twisted just right in the wound, it can appear similiar to a gunshot. Depends on the size of the knife also.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Yes, I edited my above post. If the knife is twisted just right in the wound, it can appear similiar to a gunshot. Depends on the size of the knife also.

I see what you mean. While one inch, (if I'm interpreting the diagram correctly), seems to be much to large to appear as a gunshot, I can honestly see how someone might confuse the two, especially if in a state of panic or shock at the time.

 

[LTUlegal]

Might I add this....isn't this story the ONLY one that says she was found kneeling? If so, could this reporter be reporting the information falsely? It HAS happened before. Which means we could be going in circles, once again, over nothing? Sorry to throw that wrench into it.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Might I add this....isn't this story the ONLY one that says she was found kneeling? If so, could this reporter be reporting the information falsely? It HAS happened before. Which means we could be going in circles, once again, over nothing? Sorry to throw that wrench into it.

Okay, that's enough of that!!! lol. We need SOMETHING to talk about!

We need to see documents ... that'd clear this right up.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Might I add this....isn't this story the ONLY one that says she was found kneeling? If so, could this reporter be reporting the information falsely? It HAS happened before. Which means we could be going in circles, once again, over nothing? Sorry to throw that wrench into it.

Well here's my thought. The reporter who wrote the story had the ME report, didn't she? (It is a woman?) If we are right in determining that Raven was the only one in the house prior to the officer arriving and finding Janet on her back, then there are only two ways that the reporter could have gotten this information.

1) From a reliable source - leak from LE; ME report; some other official document based on Raven's answers during questioning

OR

2) Raven or someone close to him granted the reporter that information.

For the time being, I assume that the reporter either got this information from source #1 or she is completely incorrect. I don't think that anyone in Raven's camp gave her the info. Once we have a chance to view the ME report, hopefully we'll have a better idea of whether or not the kneeling statement is factual, and upon what it is based.

 

[LTUlegal]

Sorry, JG...SOMEbody needed to pee on your Wheaties, I thought it'd be me.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Never heard that one before! LOL.

Sorry, JG...SOMEbody needed to pee on your Wheaties, I thought it'd be me.

 

[LTUlegal]

And, does anyone else find it odd that it doesn't appear that Raven was contacted for comment regarding the pregancy? Or if he was, he apparently declined to comment? But if someone has declined comment, don't they usually put that in the report?

and, should I have posted this in the pregnancy thread? They're all running together.