Evidence Against Patsy That Most People Have Never Read Before

[i_dont_chat]

VERY interesting, Tricia.

It's hard to know where the DA incompetence ends and where the Ramsey-Wood Big Ole Propaganda Machine begins.

Still, it will all come home to roost someday.

I wonder if The Devil responds to masonic handshakes? No connection, of course, just a random thought.

I think all future IQ testing should include whether or not the person believes RDI or IDI...

My opinion, the reason this information about the fibers found in the knot on the ligature "didn't make the front page" is because it couldn't be substiatiated. No evidence -- just talk.

"Mr. Levin is a lawyer and cannot lie." -- laughing so hard, I am falling all over myself.

 

[Scout]

MR. LEVIN: I think that is probably fair. Based on the state of the art scientific testing, we believe the fibers from her jacket were found in the paint tray, were found tied into the ligature found on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket that she is wrapped in, were found on the duct tape that is found on the mouth, and the question is, can she explain to us how those fibers appeared in those places that are associated with her daughter's death. And I understand you are not going to answer those.

The relevant part of the quote is "we believe". Mr Levin can say whatever he wants as long as he prefaces it with such a phrase. That doesn't make the allegation accurate.

 

[Tricia]

Scout, I understand what you are saying but I don't see him out and out lying about this at all. In fact, I have checked with a couple of sources who say this is true. However, since I can't name the sources I don't expect you to take this at face value. All I can say is it's true.

 

[Nedthan Johns]

and others.. in regards to the fibers being consistant and not a match. I do believe that Patsy did not turn over the sweater for testing until months after the crime and there was speculation that she may have purchased another like and handed that one over instead. Please someone correct me if I am wrong

 

[olive]

I wonder if The Devil responds to masonic handshakes? No connection, of course, just a random thought.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Kim Ii]

I know I've read somewhere that black fibers 'consistent with the black shirt John was wearing that Christmas evening...made in Israel,' were found in JonBenet's crotch area. Can anyone verify this?

Also, Patsy's explanation as to how her jacket fibers may have transferred to JonBenet's body does not explain how her jacket fibers were found in the paint tray. She had already admitted she hadn't used that paint tray BEFORE the murder...so how and when, did they get there? So her statement re: her fibers doesn't add up.

 

[BBB167893]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Patsy hanging over, holding close, etc. the body upon "discovery," this was Patsy's daughter so of course some of her fibers are going to be on her body. It was also Patsy's paint tray, it is quite likely that she (being a self professed artistic, crafty sort) would have used the contents of the paint tray on the same day in preparation for Christmas related events. She could have, e.g., been putting the final touches on a gift tag or wrapping paper, etc."

You don't understand, leighl. Patsy's "whole body" story can't be possible. JonBenet was already covered by the second blanket. For that story to work would require magic.

PLUS, she said she never went near those places wearing that red sweater.

""Mr. Levin is a lawyer and cannot lie." -- laughing so hard, I am falling all over myself."

Sorry, I don't chat, but the rules of ethics clearly say he can't lie. If you want, I'll post the actual stipulations.

The fiber evidence ties her to the murder, literally.

"I know I've read somewhere that black fibers 'consistent with the black shirt John was wearing that Christmas evening...made in Israel,' were found in JonBenet's crotch area. Can anyone verify this?"

Yep! Same interviews.

"Also, Patsy's explanation as to how her jacket fibers may have transferred to JonBenet's body does not explain how her jacket fibers were found in the paint tray. She had already admitted she hadn't used that paint tray BEFORE the murder...so how and when, did they get there? So her statement re: her fibers doesn't add up."

At least someone else knows it!

 

[Eagle1]

What caught my eye the most about these transcripts was the mention of Zoloft, for post traumatic stress, which I never heard before in this case. Maybe she didn't start taking it until after JonBenet's death. Anyone know?

Google something like Number of Murderers who were on antidepressants or side effect risks of antidepressants or your own better search term and there are pages and pages and pages of results indicating they can cause suicides and homicides! Columbine was, I believe, due to the use of some antidepressant. I'm no scientist, so someone else take this over if you wish.

One article listed 9 of these drugs, as "SSRIs, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, paxil, prozac, zoloft, wellbutrin, luvox, citalopram, celexa, lefapro, and paroxetine. It says activists are fed up with the FDA for not taking proper action. There have been numerous lawsuits.

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Aug05/Pringle0812.htm

This blows our argument out of the water that parents couldn't do such a thing, I GUESS. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think it's an important point. We have been asking ourselves if the Rs' wealth could cause the bungling, not getting the phone records, etc., etc.

Investigators didn't even notice this factor? And, not saying I believe this, but might drug company interests have caused some of the bungling?

On the other hand, PR wouldn't have suicided Helgoth, placing a stun gun and boots and possibly other evidence near his body that was shot from the left when he was right handed, right after Hunter's speech to the killer.

 

[aspidistra]

Stealing my post from FFJ. Here goes....

Some of you may not know that we have the transcript of the Ramsey Atlanta interviews with the Boulder Police Department and members of the D.A.'s office.

I am going to post a paragraph from the Atlanta interviews made by a lawyer named Mr. Levin.

It is my understanding that lawyers interviewing a suspect CAN"T LIE TO THE SUSPECT. The law prevents lawyers from lying to suspects when they are being questioned. In other words, Mr. Levin is not making what I am about to post up. It's the truth.

During an interrogation cops can lie all they want but in this situation the lawyers were required to speak the truth.

A quote from the Atlanta 2000 interviews talking about Patsy's jacket and the fibers from the jacket.

MR. LEVIN: I think that is probably fair. Based on the state of the art scientific testing, we believe the fibers from her jacket were found in the paint tray, were found tied into the ligature found on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket that she is wrapped in, were found on the duct tape that is found on the mouth, and the question is, can she explain to us how those fibers appeared in those places that are associated with her daughter's death. And I understand you are not going to answer those.

Do you EVER hear this evidence brought up? Of course not. Only because people, talking heads, have bought into the Ramsey Spin Team's lies.

Wendy Murphy, Marc Klaas, and a few others are the exception.

This statement by Mr. Levin should have been front page news.

I would suggest you read all of the Ramsey Atlanta interviews from 2000. You can do so right here.

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4773

I always thought it was normal for any amount of Ramsey clothing fibres to be found anywhere, since they lived there and had touched or brushed against things in the house. This is not proof that any of the three are murderers or were at the scene at the moment of death.

 

[Eagle1]

I always thought it was normal for any amount of Ramsey clothing fibres to be found anywhere, since they lived there and had touched or brushed against things in the house. This is not proof that any of the three are murderers or were at the scene at the moment of death.

But what about the drug PR may have been taking before the murder? We don't know when it was started, and I don't want to start any rumors, so please don't anyone take this as fact.

 

[less0305]

If Burke said he had Hi-Tec boots/shoes and someone else stated they knew Burke had Hi-Tec footwear - you can't tell me that Patsy thought seriously anyone would believe that she didn't remember shoes with compasses on them!! This has to be an outright lie. I remember tennis shoes my girls had that had lights on them, little skates that hid up inside the sole, pink and white saddle-oxfords, the special cheerleader sneakers with interchangeable colors for the sides.... A mother remembers this crap. She thinks she can float this past a bunch of men that she wouldn't remember shoes with compasses on them, but I believe 100% that she knew and remembered that Burke had Hi-Tec shoes with compasses and she never wanted to admit it. (And I don't believe it was Burke that solely did this - but he had the shoes, I'm willing to bet)

18 Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) And I am just
19 asking do you remember a pair of boots with
20 compasses?
21 MR. WOOD: For the fourth time
22 now.
23 THE WITNESS: I don't remember
24 compasses on any shoes.
25 MR. WOOD: Fair enough. Shoes,
0128
1 boots, compasses.
2 THE WITNESS: I have a picture in
3 my mind of a compass on a watch, but --
4 Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) Shoes, boots,
5 you don't remember a compass on footwear?
6 A. No, I can't.

If you would lie about this, you would lie about other things just as readily.

 

[sandraladeda]

I always thought it was normal for any amount of Ramsey clothing fibres to be found anywhere, since they lived there and had touched or brushed against things in the house. This is not proof that any of the three are murderers or were at the scene at the moment of death.

I bought a new sweater today. I walked in the door with bag and put it on 2 hours ago.

Are there fibers from my new sweater scattered in the folds of my tent in the box of camping gear in my basement?

 

[inquiringmindz]

Thanks for posting the link, Tricia. I'm not even a fourth of the way through this and seeing red flags. There is something I just don't get about PR's behavior. If totally innocent, I would be using every available source and questioning them about their findings. Screaming from the roof tops to listen to me. The answers she has given appear callous, IMHO. She didn't even bother to ask her own investigating team questions about their conclusions? It seems like she keeps passing the buck and basically saying JR knows, ask him. I feel as if she didn't want to be bothered by the whole thing. I also haven't been in this situation and pray I never am. I just can't imagine she wasn't fighting hard for the truth to be found. I don't know, it's getting late and maybe I'm just not reading this in the correct tone.

 

[ssiegmund]

and others.. in regards to the fibers being consistant and not a match. I do believe that Patsy did not turn over the sweater for testing until months after the crime and there was speculation that she may have purchased another like and handed that one over instead. Please someone correct me if I am wrong

This is true - the sweater and other clothing was not handed over till about a year later. There was no way to know if the clothing was the same or if it was the same, it had probably been washed, which might or might not make a difference.

 

[Tricia]

I bought a new sweater today. I walked in the door with bag and put it on 2 hours ago.

Are there fibers from my new sweater scattered in the folds of my tent in the box of camping gear in my basement?

This is a GREAT POST!!

Thank you.

 

[wenchie]

Re: Zoloft

More people than you would ever imagine are taking Zoloft. It should clear the head, not make the person foggier.

It is not a tranquilizer, sedative, etc.

 

[s_finch]

If Burke said he had Hi-Tec boots/shoes and someone else stated they knew Burke had Hi-Tec footwear - you can't tell me that Patsy thought seriously anyone would believe that she didn't remember shoes with compasses on them!! This has to be an outright lie. I remember tennis shoes my girls had that had lights on them, little skates that hid up inside the sole, pink and white saddle-oxfords, the special cheerleader sneakers with interchangeable colors for the sides.... A mother remembers this crap. She thinks she can float this past a bunch of men that she wouldn't remember shoes with compasses on them, but I believe 100% that she knew and remembered that Burke had Hi-Tec shoes with compasses and she never wanted to admit it. (And I don't believe it was Burke that solely did this - but he had the shoes, I'm willing to bet)

18 Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) And I am just
19 asking do you remember a pair of boots with
20 compasses?
21 MR. WOOD: For the fourth time
22 now.
23 THE WITNESS: I don't remember
24 compasses on any shoes.
25 MR. WOOD: Fair enough. Shoes,
0128
1 boots, compasses.
2 THE WITNESS: I have a picture in
3 my mind of a compass on a watch, but --
4 Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) Shoes, boots,
5 you don't remember a compass on footwear?
6 A. No, I can't.

If you would lie about this, you would lie about other things just as readily.

I so agree with the section I bolded above. I too remember so many different kinds of clogs, tennis shoes, sandals, dress shoes, etc... I can't believe she wouldn't remember boots with compasses, unless she payed no attention at all to anything Burke did or bought. Still, I can't imagine not knowing about these boots, how many kid boots have compasses?? Not many. Did LE ever ask John if he remembered Burke having boots with compasses on the laces????

 

[s_finch]

What caught my eye the most about these transcripts was the mention of Zoloft, for post traumatic stress, which I never heard before in this case. Maybe she didn't start taking it until after JonBenet's death. Anyone know?

Google something like Number of Murderers who were on antidepressants or side effect risks of antidepressants or your own better search term and there are pages and pages and pages of results indicating they can cause suicides and homicides! Columbine was, I believe, due to the use of some antidepressant. I'm no scientist, so someone else take this over if you wish.

One article listed 9 of these drugs, as "SSRIs, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, paxil, prozac, zoloft, wellbutrin, luvox, citalopram, celexa, lefapro, and paroxetine. It says activists are fed up with the FDA for not taking proper action. There have been numerous lawsuits.

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Aug05/Pringle0812.htm

This blows our argument out of the water that parents couldn't do such a thing, I GUESS. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think it's an important point. We have been asking ourselves if the Rs' wealth could cause the bungling, not getting the phone records, etc., etc.

Investigators didn't even notice this factor? And, not saying I believe this, but might drug company interests have caused some of the bungling?

On the other hand, PR wouldn't have suicided Helgoth, placing a stun gun and boots and possibly other evidence near his body that was shot from the left when he was right handed, right after Hunter's speech to the killer.

No offense intended here, but SSRI's are not "strong" medications. Zoloft has been possibly indicated in causing depression and suicidal tendencies in teens, but to my knowledge none of the SSRI's have been proven to be the cause of homocide. With that said, I would like to point out that within a population, those who commit suicide or homocide are OFTEN going to be the very ones who have already been prescibed medications that affect the CNS (regardless of whether they comply with the precribed course). Just like those who die of diabetes are usually going to be the ones who have been prescribed insulin, whether they take it properly or not.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

No offense intended here, but SSRI's are not "strong" medications. Zoloft has been possibly indicated in causing depression and suicidal tendencies in teens, but to my knowledge none of the SSRI's have been proven to be the cause of homicide. With that said, I would like to point out that within a population, those who commit suicide or homicide are OFTEN going to be the very ones who have already been prescribed medications that affect the CNS (regardless of whether they comply with the prescribed course). Just like those who die of diabetes are usually going to be the ones who have been prescribed insulin, whether they take it properly or not.

You are absolutely correct. Not one recordable case ever of homicide affixed to Zoloft as the cause. Homicidal tendencies and suicidal tendencies are two different emotional reactions.

IMO

Ocean

 

[Love_Mama]

To the original post, actually this information has been available for quite some time through newspapers, etc. from the start. It was also brought up in a 48 HOURS espisode Oct. 4th, 2002.

(From 48 HOURS Transcript)
Edited to here: mama

Detective Tom Haney to Patsy Ramsey: "JonBenét got up and somebody in that house - legally, lawfully, in that house - one of the three of you - also happens to be up, or gets up because she makes noise, and there is some discussion, or something happens, there's an accident, somebody........."

Patsy Ramsey: "You're going down the wrong path, buddy."

(End of information from transcript.)

Having just read this post which is very revealing of the Ramsey's tactics..

When I just read Pasty's answer to Det. Haney. Does anyone else here.... and I'm hoping you here have read other remarks by Patsy........think she talked like a waitress in some cheap diner? Our poster "Olive" noticed it!
xxxxxxoooooo
mama