Evidence of Heart Shaped Sticker on Duct Tape Destroyed

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I think it is possible that because they used this so called residue evidence (which does not exist) to obtain a search warrant means that evidence collected from that search warrant could get thrown out.
 
kushka said:
You seem to be suggesting that it was only speculation The that the duck tape covered the nose - It is not speculation, it is fact. The autopsy clearly stated that the tape covered the mouth and nasal aperture area.

You can read the report at
http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0619/19802034.pdf
The statement about the nose covered is on the page noted 6453 the 3rd paragraph on the page.
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I think the question is whether the duct tape covered the nasal aperture area (nose) when it was first placed there (i.e., probably while Caylee was still alive), or just when the remains were found. I.e., had there been some slippage of position? After all, the tape was stuck only to the hair at that point, not to the skull itself.
 
notthatsmart said:
I think it is possible that because they used this so called residue evidence (which does not exist) to obtain a search warrant means that evidence collected from that search warrant could get thrown out.
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I don't think so. First, the evidence does exist. The State said in the search warrant that they were told by the FBI that there was sticker residue. The FBI agent in question will say that he/she did indeed see such residue--that testimony is evidence of the residue.

Second, IIRC there is no problem with getting a search warrant based on information that at the time was believed in good faith to be correct. (Although as I mentioned above, we have no reason even now to think the agent was incorrect in this case. The physical evidence to match the testimonial evidence may have been obliterated through additional testing, but there is no reason to think the testimonial evidence was false.)

Second, the FBI agent's statement about the sticker residue was used only to get the scrapbooking materials, so at most only those materials would be excluded. And if the evidence of the sticker residue on the tape is excluded anyway, who cares if the scrapbooking materials are excluded?

I forgot to say welcome to WS. :blushing:
 
I would think that - given the distance between a toddler's nose and mouth, one piece of duct tape might be wide enough to cover both orifices. If several layers were placed on the area and overlapped at all, they would most certainly cover both, imo. I'm sure the ME and other investigators have made those calculations. It's not something I would envy them having to set up.
 
AZlawyer said:
I think the question is whether the duct tape covered the nasal aperture area (nose) when it was first placed there (i.e., probably while Caylee was still alive), or just when the remains were found. I.e., had there been some slippage of position? After all, the tape was stuck only to the hair at that point, not to the skull itself.
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exactly.

I think the statement in the autopsy report only says that's roughly where the tape was at the time of examination of the remains.
 
In reviewing the page linked below - it does say JB was t he one who said "no fingerprints on the duct tape" - so maybe I should consider the source? (ha) This link does say the FBI was the one who stated a perfect heart shaped sticker residue not hand drawn on the duct tape.

http://www.wesh.com/news/18738287/detail.html
 
I remember the pictures of heart stickers taken from the home, was evidence ever released indicating a match between the sticker at the scene and stickers from the home. I mean, I would assume since other items placed with Caylee were originally from the home (or appear to be) that the stickers were obtained there, too. But I know Casey's not the only one in her group that uses heart stickers, the photos from Casey's 21st birthday for example show Samantha's phone with heart stickers on it, hearts are popular with lots of people. (If anyone hasn't seen that particular photo, it's on my profile page if anyone wants to see it, I would post it here but for some reason when I post it it's huge.) I wouldn't be surprised if Casey had given photos to friends or boyfriends with heart stickers on them. I assume the heart sticker probably came from the A home like other items found with Caylee, or maybe from the car if Casey was carrying a bunch of stuff in her car while she and Caylee were staying here and there, of course that doesn't mean Casey is the one who placed it on duct tape on Caylee, I'm not saying that, it's one possibility obviously.

Did you all see this story in May? I missed it at the time, only saw it recently, thanks to a nice person here (maybe there was a whole thread and I missed it because I was away from WS for a while!) Anyway, about the defendant in two attempted kidnappings, one near the A's part of town, the other in Winter Park I think, who duct taped the little girls' mouth, took shorts and a blanket from the child's bedroom, took the child in the garage, etc? Very weird. Of course the defendant is awaiting trial and presumed innocent.
http://www.wftv.com/news/19489838/detail.html
http://www.wftv.com/news/20361829/detail.html
Don't want to start a discussion on it here, I'll look to see if there was a thread on this, but just thought I would post the links in case anyone else like me hadn't seen it at the time! :)
 
on the topic of the position of the tape and whether it covered Caylee's nose originally, now who knows, maybe at trial we will see pictures that show us tape covering a big enough area that the nose couldn't have been missed. And I agree with those who have said that even one piece of duct tape could probably cover both the mouth and nose of a 3 year old if placed carefully. Clearly, whoever put Caylee in a bag wasn't someone who was trying to keep her alive. So there is every chance it could have been over both mouth and nose. (The perp wouldn't have had to tape over her nose of course, he/she could have just taped her mouth to silence her and ultimately just strangled her or whatever.)
 
AZlawyer said:
I don't think so. First, the evidence does exist. The State said in the search warrant that they were told by the FBI that there was sticker residue. The FBI agent in question will say that he/she did indeed see such residue--that testimony is evidence of the residue.

Second, IIRC there is no problem with getting a search warrant based on information that at the time was believed in good faith to be correct. (Although as I mentioned above, we have no reason even now to think the agent was incorrect in this case. The physical evidence to match the testimonial evidence may have been obliterated through additional testing, but there is no reason to think the testimonial evidence was false.)

Second, the FBI agent's statement about the sticker residue was used only to get the scrapbooking materials, so at most only those materials would be excluded. And if the evidence of the sticker residue on the tape is excluded anyway, who cares if the scrapbooking materials are excluded?

I forgot to say welcome to WS. :blushing:
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Along with the fact that the sticker residue wasn't the only thing that made LE want another search warrant after they found Caylee's remains. They also needed to get samples of the duct tape to compare as well as trash bags and the laundry bag. Just because there may or may not be a way to prove with photography or the actual residue itself that it did in fact exist does not mean that she will not be found guilty. There are too many extenuating circumstances. As well as the fact that the duct tape was there and there's no way to deny that!
All said with due respect, and of course my O-pin-eee-on :)
 
seagull65 said:
I think you're right, and unlike what NG would often say about the tape being still stuck to the bones of the face or still stuck to the skull, it reads in the evidence like the tape was just held in place by the hair on either side, as the soft tissue it would have been stuck to on the face would be long since gone. Unless it managed to readhere to the skull over the mouth after skeletonization somehow. It always sounded in the evidence like it was just still there roughly in place because it was stuck to the hair on either side and also that the tape's being there had kept the lower jaw on, maybe it went enough under the chin, or slipped under during decomp or something, to hold the jaw up? I'm not sure.
I've heard some people say it covered the nose area as well as the mouth but I wonder what the evidence is of this. Because the normal position of the jaws, even with the mouth closed, is jaws slightly apart, teeth not set together. If her mouth was taped over with her jaws in the normal slightly apart position, later after skeletonization, when the skin and flesh the tape is stuck to over the mouth disappears, muscle disappears, the jaws might fall closer together, it might now appear that the tape could have covered the nose, but it might not have originally. Unless we see pictures at trial that show tape really placed high, obviously covering the nose area, I just haven't see it yet.
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------------------
iirc the autopsy report stated the tape covered both nasal passages and mouth. I found it upsetting to read, the poor child.:angel:
 
In the video it says there was no picture taken of the outline of the heart shaped sticker remnants on the duct tape.

http://www.clickorlando.com/video/21110409/index.html


How can that be? They took pictures of everything else, including unrelated garbage!!! WTH? :banghead:

Of course, there's all the other evidence in the case, the laundry bag, the rare duct tape, the trash bags, and so much other stuff that came from the house. Not to mention the stinky car trunk...........
 
Bakersmom said:
This will have no bearing on the prosecution at all. The sticker outline was never implied to have been connected to the Anthony house, all it showed was simply a disgusting frame of mind. There is plenty of other items tieing back to the Anthony house.
In fact if the defense wants to focus in on that, I say.. Let Them!!! There is simply too much that the FBI and police have turned over to the prosecution that implicates Casey Anthony in the murder of Caylee. The defense would be better off pleading to a lesser charge to spare Casey's life. IMHO, I hope they don't because this in my opinion is a death penalty warranted case. Anything that invloves killing or hurting children should be punished by death. Those types of people have no soul and are capable of anything.
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I agree, there's a number of more pressing issues they best be working on rather then something the SA isn't using anyhow (from what I've seen). And they should have pleaded way back when.... I'd think they would have to beg for that at this point.
 
notthatsmart said:
I think it is possible that because they used this so called residue evidence (which does not exist) to obtain a search warrant means that evidence collected from that search warrant could get thrown out.
Click to expand...
Sorry...coming in late...can you point me to where it says the search warrant was based on this? TIA
 
seagull65 said:
I remember the pictures of heart stickers taken from the home, was evidence ever released indicating a match between the sticker at the scene and stickers from the home. I mean, I would assume since other items placed with Caylee were originally from the home (or appear to be) that the stickers were obtained there, too. But I know Casey's not the only one in her group that uses heart stickers, the photos from Casey's 21st birthday for example show Samantha's phone with heart stickers on it, hearts are popular with lots of people. (If anyone hasn't seen that particular photo, it's on my profile page if anyone wants to see it, I would post it here but for some reason when I post it it's huge.) I wouldn't be surprised if Casey had given photos to friends or boyfriends with heart stickers on them. I assume the heart sticker probably came from the A home like other items found with Caylee, or maybe from the car if Casey was carrying a bunch of stuff in her car while she and Caylee were staying here and there, of course that doesn't mean Casey is the one who placed it on duct tape on Caylee, I'm not saying that, it's one possibility obviously.

Did you all see this story in May? I missed it at the time, only saw it recently, thanks to a nice person here (maybe there was a whole thread and I missed it because I was away from WS for a while!) Anyway, about the defendant in two attempted kidnappings, one near the A's part of town, the other in Winter Park I think, who duct taped the little girls' mouth, took shorts and a blanket from the child's bedroom, took the child in the garage, etc? Very weird. Of course the defendant is awaiting trial and presumed innocent.
http://www.wftv.com/news/19489838/detail.html
http://www.wftv.com/news/20361829/detail.html
Don't want to start a discussion on it here, I'll look to see if there was a thread on this, but just thought I would post the links in case anyone else like me hadn't seen it at the time! :)
Click to expand...
Yup...old story.
 
Princess Rose said:
That's a bandage, not tape. Two completely different things and used for different purposes.
Click to expand...

It's relevant because it shows Casey's affinity for hearts. If Casey had bandages handy instead of tape, she probably would have plastered them across Caylee's face instead!
 
Princess Rose said:
The Spoiliation motoin mentions that the tape was manipulated on the skull in various ways. Page 11 - last paragraph
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20972702/detail.html
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PR--the motion doesn't say that. It says "Police investigators photographed the duct tape and the remains before dismantling them. However, these photographs show various views of, and possibly various interpretations of the actual placement of the duct tape."

I think what the defense means is that photos taken from different angles, etc., can lead to various interpretations of where the duct tape actually was.

I think this is true if you just have one photo, but if you have lots of photos from different angles, you can tell where the tape actually was, and can probably even have a 3-D model (or virtual 3-D model on a computer) reconstructed from the photos.
 
Local 6 updated their story with comment from a former prosecutor.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21104174/detail.html
<snip>
She said any mistakes by crime labs can raise doubts in jurors&#8217; minds, if they are conditioned to the open-and-shut crime cases seen on shows like CSI.

&#8220;Obviously, you always have that human element. So I'm sure she did not intentionally say, 'I'm going to destroy this,'" Rahter said. &#8220;And she probably thought it was going to come out better when she started applying the powder used to lift fingerprints."

But, Rahter added, all is not lost for the prosecution, because Fontaine could still testify about what she saw.

&#8220;Everybody's a witness, right? So they're either a witness because they've seen something or they know something or they heard something,&#8221; Rahter said. &#8220;So this person is a person who saw something, so she'll have to testify to it.&#8221;
 
"all that remains are photographs in which investigators improvise a variety of hypothetical arrangements for the duct tape and the remains of Caylee Anthony". this quoted from AL and JB in the motion to dismiss for spoilage of evidence. (just above the bad faith claim)

I guess again I might be trusting that the defense is actually telling the truth that there do remain photographs that could reconstruct how the tape was on the skull and then the FBI people could testify as to where they felt the sticker residue was affixed on that duct tape. That doesn't really say how it was placed initially - just how they found it after all of the flooding and critters and snakes and such.
 
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