Evidence of Heart Shaped Sticker on Duct Tape Destroyed

[nums24]

Along with the fact that the sticker residue wasn't the only thing that made LE want another search warrant after they found Caylee's remains. They also needed to get samples of the duct tape to compare as well as trash bags and the laundry bag. Just because there may or may not be a way to prove with photography or the actual residue itself that it did in fact exist does not mean that she will not be found guilty. There are too many extenuating circumstances. As well as the fact that the duct tape was there and there's no way to deny that!
All said with due respect, and of course my O-pin-eee-on

There were 2 search warrants conducted after Caylee's remains were found, the first warrant issued on 12/11/08 (http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0121/18530229.pdf) and has nothing to do with the heart stickers. It's the second warrant (http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0121/18532623.pdf) that references the residue.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

This really isn't a problem. Many times evidence is lost during testing especially when the perp hasn't been identified yet. For instance, a lot of dna testing uses up the sample--that's never been a problem when the testing occurs prior to someone being accused--or in the situation where there is an accused--the defense attorney normally seeks a motion to preserve the evidence before testing so their experts can examine it or have their experts present during the testing. Did JB file a motion to preserve evidence before any testing was done on it? I think not.

 

[nums24]

snipped from: http://www.wesh.com/news/21114372/detail.html (BBM)

Orlando defense attorney Richard Hornsby said he believes prosecutors can still use similarity between the tape found on the child's skull with tape on a gas can from the Anthony home and detectives who saw residue of the sticker on the duct tape could testify it appeared to match stickers found in Casey Anthony's belongings.

"I'm not convinced Baez would be able to get this evidence excluded if it was destroyed in the process of trying to get a fingerprint," he said. "That is excusable conduct on the part of the state."

The defense' spin in this article makes me want to break things LOL!

 

[nums24]

This really isn't a problem. Many times evidence is lost during testing especially when the perp hasn't been identified yet. For instance, a lot of dna testing uses up the sample--that's never been a problem when the testing occurs prior to someone being accused--or in the situation where there is an accused--the defense attorney normally seeks a motion to preserve the evidence before testing so their experts can examine it or have their experts present during the testing. Did JB file a motion to preserve evidence before any testing was done on it? I think not.

Yes he did:

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/DOC001.PDF

 

[Muzikman]

This part is spin:

"When the FBI admits it destroyed evidence any reasonable legal mind must ask the question, was it ever there to begin with?" Marti MacKenzie said. "Our defense team has been saying for six months, absolutely not."

They just got this FBI report a few weeks ago, part of the 2000 pages we haven't seen yet!

 

[aafromaa]

Ok, I'm not sure that this means they can't use it at trial because I see no reason why the person(s) who saw it cannot testify to its prior existance and let the jury determine whether or not they believe the testimony. But I have to tell you all that my first thought was...

Oh no - If they can't use the residue from the heart sticker as evidence then how are they going to get a conviction and maybe the case should be dismissed because there's nothing to the 31 days, the lies told to LE & family, the smell in the car, the duct tape & laundry bag that are tied to the home, etc - the jury will never believe KC did it without the heart-shaped residue.

Seriously, guys, while we may see placing a heart on the duct tape as cold and calculated and want the jury to see it too, they will have no problem convicting her without it. (And I agree with those who have said that destruction and/or consumption of evidence in the course of testing and examination is common and gives no grounds for dismissal or exclusion.)

 

[JBean]

This really isn't a problem. Many times evidence is lost during testing especially when the perp hasn't been identified yet. For instance, a lot of dna testing uses up the sample--that's never been a problem when the testing occurs prior to someone being accused--or in the situation where there is an accused--the defense attorney normally seeks a motion to preserve the evidence before testing so their experts can examine it or have their experts present during the testing. Did JB file a motion to preserve evidence before any testing was done on it? I think not.

I think it is a bit of a problem. Any time mistakes can be documented on the prosecution side it opens the door. But it works both ways.

So, while this is not a deal breaker, it is a blunder and I think there was a motion to preserve wasn;'t there?

 

[snow_walker]

I really don't see the heart sticker as a big deal. In fact I have always kind of wondered about it myself.. could it have been just some sort of flaw in the tape or a bit of dust, or an imprint from a heart shaped leaf or somesuch? Somehow it doesn't fit too well with the whole scenerio .. duct tape, wrapped in a blanket that was at hand.. out to the backyard.. into the trunk..into the garbage bags and laundry bags.. and dumped into the swamp.

Did KC take time to go find a heart shaped sticker for her daughter? Seems everything else was just sort of sitting there.. she didn't take along Caylee's favourite dolly for example.. although I grant you other toys were found at the scene, but I have always assumed those were toys that had been sitting in the car, and they just got dumped along with the little one's body..

Still.. could be she did have a sticker at hand and used it, I wouldn't say it was improbable, just a wee bit unlikely.

Does it really matter? the three pieces of duct tape does it for me, with or without the sticker..it matches the tape on the cans... and the laundry bag is similar to the one found in the house.. and the odour in the car.. and the 31 days of 'la belle vita' or however it is spelt. The invisible nanny.. the changing story of the kidnapping..the lies about nearly everything .. her lack of co-operation with LE..and the body left just down the street..
What does a sticker matter, whether they have proof of it or not? Whether it ever existed or not, against these established facts?

 

[christee]

Seems to me the sticker found on the back of the picture frame would not have been put there intentionally. I mean, why put a sticker on the back of a picture frame? It seems more likely this is the sticker that was on the tape.
I think it's possible the picture frame mentioned on pg 4 could have held the pieces of paper Matt board that were found and photographed (pic below).
You guys have prob discussed this already-just thought I'd share!

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I really don't see the heart sticker as a big deal. In fact I have always kind of wondered about it myself.. could it have been just some sort of flaw in the tape or a bit of dust, or an imprint from a heart shaped leaf or somesuch? Somehow it doesn't fit too well with the whole scenerio .. duct tape, wrapped in a blanket that was at hand.. out to the backyard.. into the trunk..into the garbage bags and laundry bags.. and dumped into the swamp.

Did KC take time to go find a heart shaped sticker for her daughter? Seems everything else was just sort of sitting there.. she didn't take along Caylee's favourite dolly for example.. although I grant you other toys were found at the scene, but I have always assumed those were toys that had been sitting in the car, and they just got dumped along with the little one's body..

Still.. could be she did have a sticker at hand and used it, I wouldn't say it was improbable, just a wee bit unlikely.

Does it really matter? the three pieces of duct tape does it for me, with or without the sticker..it matches the tape on the cans... and the laundry bag is similar to the one found in the house.. and the odour in the car.. and the 31 days of 'la belle vita' or however it is spelt. The invisible nanny.. the changing story of the kidnapping..the lies about nearly everything .. her lack of co-operation with LE..and the body left just down the street..
What does a sticker matter, whether they have proof of it or not? Whether it ever existed or not, against these established facts?

But the fact that a heart shaped sticker was also found at the scene makes it more believable that there could have been one on the tape. And the heart shape residue was found on the tape first and then they were asked to see if there was a heart sticker found there too. And, sure enough, they found one stuck on the back of a picture frame at the scene of the remains. These facts make it seem more likely probable, huh?

 

[Valhall]

Is anyone else having a hard time understanding how dusting for fingerprints could destroy adhesive??? I'm sorry, but if there was a heart shaped sticky area there that could be seen prior to dusting it would become more apparent with dusting.

I'm thinking that it wasn't the powdering that destroyed this but subsequent analysis of the tape itself; hence all the verbage about what areas of the tape were swabbed with methanol (which would destroy adhesive).

 

[Just Jayla]

Local 6 updated their story with comment from a former prosecutor.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21104174/detail.html
<snip>
She said any mistakes by crime labs can raise doubts in jurors’ minds, if they are conditioned to the open-and-shut crime cases seen on shows like CSI.

“Obviously, you always have that human element. So I'm sure she did not intentionally say, 'I'm going to destroy this,'" Rahter said. “And she probably thought it was going to come out better when she started applying the powder used to lift fingerprints."

But, Rahter added, all is not lost for the prosecution, because Fontaine could still testify about what she saw.

“Everybody's a witness, right? So they're either a witness because they've seen something or they know something or they heard something,” Rahter said. “So this person is a person who saw something, so she'll have to testify to it.”

BBM, that's the part that makes me bite my nails anytime something like this emerges...hopefully the media in Miami are bringin the news like KBelich, and the folks there are onto the whole picture.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Well I say let Baez gloat for a day or two, he won't have much opportunity to do that as we get closer to trial... that will wipe the smile right off his face.:woohoo:

 

[christee]

I really don't see the heart sticker as a big deal. In fact I have always kind of wondered about it myself.. could it have been just some sort of flaw in the tape or a bit of dust, or an imprint from a heart shaped leaf or somesuch? Somehow it doesn't fit too well with the whole scenerio .. duct tape, wrapped in a blanket that was at hand.. out to the backyard.. into the trunk..into the garbage bags and laundry bags.. and dumped into the swamp.

Did KC take time to go find a heart shaped sticker for her daughter? Seems everything else was just sort of sitting there.. she didn't take along Caylee's favourite dolly for example.. although I grant you other toys were found at the scene, but I have always assumed those were toys that had been sitting in the car, and they just got dumped along with the little one's body..

Still.. could be she did have a sticker at hand and used it, I wouldn't say it was improbable, just a wee bit unlikely.

Does it really matter? the three pieces of duct tape does it for me, with or without the sticker..it matches the tape on the cans... and the laundry bag is similar to the one found in the house.. and the odour in the car.. and the 31 days of 'la belle vita' or however it is spelt. The invisible nanny.. the changing story of the kidnapping..the lies about nearly everything .. her lack of co-operation with LE..and the body left just down the street..
What does a sticker matter, whether they have proof of it or not? Whether it ever existed or not, against these established facts?

To me the HS (heart sticker) makes a strong connection between KC and the evidence found with Caylee. If by some miracle the HS on the back of the frame matched any that LE took from the A's house then it just makes a stronger case against KC. I mean, it's similiar to the rarity(?) of the Henkel tape. Out of all the thousands of diff kinds of stickers on the the market, what are the odds a HS just like the one(s) found with Caylee would also be found in A's home? KCs addiction to all things hearts makes the find much less a coincidence.
BTW-KC prob didn't leave the doll because she knew someone would notice it was missing right off the bat. A small toy horse maybe wouldn't have been as noticeable.

 

[Just Jayla]

I really don't see the heart sticker as a big deal. In fact I have always kind of wondered about it myself.. could it have been just some sort of flaw in the tape or a bit of dust, or an imprint from a heart shaped leaf or somesuch? Somehow it doesn't fit too well with the whole scenerio .. duct tape, wrapped in a blanket that was at hand.. out to the backyard.. into the trunk..into the garbage bags and laundry bags.. and dumped into the swamp.

Did KC take time to go find a heart shaped sticker for her daughter? Seems everything else was just sort of sitting there.. she didn't take along Caylee's favourite dolly for example.. although I grant you other toys were found at the scene, but I have always assumed those were toys that had been sitting in the car, and they just got dumped along with the little one's body..

Still.. could be she did have a sticker at hand and used it, I wouldn't say it was improbable, just a wee bit unlikely.

Does it really matter? the three pieces of duct tape does it for me, with or without the sticker..it matches the tape on the cans... and the laundry bag is similar to the one found in the house.. and the odour in the car.. and the 31 days of 'la belle vita' or however it is spelt. The invisible nanny.. the changing story of the kidnapping..the lies about nearly everything .. her lack of co-operation with LE..and the body left just down the street..
What does a sticker matter, whether they have proof of it or not? Whether it ever existed or not, against these established facts?

I have had a little trouble with the heart sticker part of the whole thing, too. I didn't really think KC cared enough to put one there, just thought she would be the kind to do the murder and get it over with. I figured at best she was trying to be cute if she did put it there.

So maybe it won't mean a thing, especially if the state does not use it to build their case. It would be awkward for the defense to attempt to explain this potential blunder to a jury in retrospect, if the prosecution does not build their story on it/address it at all.

 

[celticthyme]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-02-18-caylee-anthony_N.htm

Fla. cops match evidence to Caylee Anthony home

ORLANDO (AP) — Evidence discovered in the woods where Florida toddler Caylee Anthony's remains were found last December match items found in the house where she lived, according to court documents released Wednesday.

The same types of laundry bag, duct tape and plastic bag discovered at the crime scene also were found by investigators in the house where Caylee lived with her mother and grandparents, according to detectives' reports on the evidence.
Along with a skull and bones, investigators found a stained Winnie the Pooh blanket, pink-and-white-striped shorts and a shirt that said 'BIG TROUBLE Comes Small" in the woods at the crime scene.

The skull had duct tape over the mouth similar to duct tape found at the Anthony house and the remains were found in a laundry bag and plastic bag that also were similar to ones found at the home, according to the documents.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

The defense got the notes they asked for and used them in the motion to indicate that the FBI had DESTROYED evidence.

The very notes they requested will buttress the testimony at trial. It would be one thing if there had been no notes taken about the sticker residue. But this person, as she processed the tape DID do the right thing and keep notes about what she observed.

It's a shame the image was lost due to further processing, but there was no malicious intent.

The media are hyping this as something major, egged on by the defense.
If this is the best the defense can come up with concerning destruction of evidence, its not much and won't affect the testimony at trial.

 

[celticthyme]

To me the HS (heart sticker) makes a strong connection between KC and the evidence found with Caylee. If by some miracle the HS on the back of the frame matched any that LE took from the A's house then it just makes a stronger case against KC. I mean, it's similar to the rarity(?) of the Henkel tape. Out of all the thousands of diff kinds of stickers on the the market, what are the odds a HS just like the one(s) found with Caylee would also be found in A's home? KCs addiction to all things hearts makes the find much less a coincidence.
BTW-KC prob didn't leave the doll because she knew someone would notice it was missing right off the bat. A small toy horse maybe wouldn't have been as noticeable.

I have been searching for information about the Dora the Explorer toys Caylee had and GOKW ( god only knows where) I still haven't been able to find it and it was very long ago.
But I believe the small toy horse was part of a "package" of Dora the Explorer toysand I've been trying to upload it from my photos with no luck, but there is a little dora & I'm sure they were also trying to find the other pieces of the set at the house. .

 

[tasylshari]

I strongly believe that immature Casey placed a heart shaped sticker where it has been reported for over a year now. No doubt. Very 21. Very sick.

I also have a hard time believing that it was the same sticker found on the cardboard. After all, if the residue was left behind on Caylee's duct tape covered mouth and nose, how on earth would the actual sticker stick to the cardboard? The stickyness was on the duct tape!

Reading that not each and every single piece of evidence NEEDS to be photographed has put me at ease. I propose this: the heart shaped sticker residue on the duct tape was not an EXACT match to anything that LE found in the Anthony home, so "go ahead and ruin the residue and it's shape"....we'll simply testify that you all believe that it matched one of the stickers absconded. See no evil? Speak all you want, tho. :angel:

 

[christee]

Now this is just my opinion, but ever since discussion 1st began on the stickers I've felt there was more than 1 sticker involved: the sticker that fell off the tape (which I think LE may have found), and the one stuck to the Matt Board (pic previously posted). This has been debated upside-down, vertically, and half-azzed backwards in the other sticker and tape threads!