EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

[Hatfield]

But having handcuffs in the bedroom could just be explained as foreplay/roleplaying in bed. They could just say they have a bit of a crazy sex life.

But they did not say that. If I am not mistaken, TM actually stated a reason for the handcuffs and it was that TM was handcuffing SM to the bed to keep him in the house and prevent him from having future affairs with others outside of the house. Something along those lines.

If LE has video to the contrary then we know TM was not handcuffing him the night Heather disappeared. Depending on what TM actually said, she may have been caught in a lie already about the cuffs if she said he was cuffed that night. I cant remember if she specifically said he was handcuffed that particulr night or not. But she did reference a specific reason for the cuffs was to keep SM in the house. I dont remember where or how she said it but it was mentioned somewhere.

IMO i think its plausible they just made up that story about the cuffs and I agree with the other poster that perhaps the cuffs were really used to control Heather. Hopefully LE tested the cuffs for DNA or fingerprints and maybe got some evidence from them.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

But they did not say that. If I am not mistaken, TM actually stated a reason for the handcuffs and it was that TM was handcuffing SM to the bed to keep him in the house and prevent him from having future affairs with others outside of the house. Something along those lines.

If LE has video to the contrary then we know TM was not handcuffing him the night Heather disappeared. Depending on what TM actually said, she may have been caught in a lie already about the cuffs if she said he was cuffed that night. I cant remember if she specifically said he was handcuffed that particulr night or not. But she did reference a specific reason for the cuffs was to keep SM in the house. I dont remember where or how she said it but it was mentioned somewhere.

But the post I replied to made it sound like LE found the handcuffs, and then asked for an explanation. I was basically saying that there are plenty of legitimate reasons to have handcuffs, that they would not have to make up an abuse story to cover up handcuffing Heather.

Anyway, I do not know why either of them would tell LE about being tied to a bed? I would think SM would be more likely, if his defense is going to be that he was tied up that night, or that he was so abused that he just did what he was told. I do not know why TM would tell LE about handcuffing him.

 

[Hatfield]

But the post I replied to made it sound like LE found the handcuffs, and then asked for an explanation. I was basically saying that there are plenty of legitimate reasons to have handcuffs, that they would not have to make up an abuse story to cover up handcuffing Heather.

Anyway, I do not know why either of them would tell LE about being tied to a bed? I would think SM would be more likely, if his defense is going to be that he was tied up that night, or that he was so abused that he just did what he was told. I do not know why TM would tell LE about handcuffing him.

I wish I could remember how that info came out. It may have been at one of the hearings perhaps. I would like to review exactly what either of the Ms said about the cuffs.

ETA: and JMO of course
It is a wild story and quite embarrasing to SM for the reason they gave.
A sex toy reason would not have been too embarrasing but the reason they gave seems quite embarrasing as it points to serious control issues.

 

[poppygirl]

I wish I could remember how that info came out. It may have been at one of the hearings perhaps. I would like to review exactly what either of the Ms said about the cuffs.

ETA: and JMO of course
It is a wild story and quite embarrasing to SM for the reason they gave.
A sex toy reason would not have been too embarrasing the but the reason they gave seems quite embarrasing as it points to serious control issues.

I believe it was at the first bond hearings. SM claimed TM handcuffed him to the bed every night and insisted on going to work with him, being with him at all times since his adultery. Can't remember why they would disclose that.

While I agree that the OP's theory about the handcuffs being for Heather is a possibility, I do think that the story SM told is probably true, just from what we've come to learn about Tammy - it's the type of insecure, narcissistic thing she'd totally do.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Maybe it just his method of speaking, but what is up with the specific (non)examples? First, he mentions bag over the head and being taken over state lines...and then he says they didn't find her blouse or toothpaste. Why toothpaste? It is such a random item.

First, we have to take the exact words of what he said. He did NOT say they didn't find a blouse or toothpaste. He said it would be IMPROPER to say they found those items. That could mean not correct, but improper is not normally used that way. Or it could mean that it would be irregular or inappropriate to say they found those things (or any things). What I want to know is if there were other words between:

"Keep in mind, kidnapping is simply keeping someone from being able to leave. “We have this idea that you put a bag over their head and take them out of state. Anytime you’re unable to leave, it is a kidnapping."
and
"I think it would be improper to say we found her blouse or we found her toothpaste or whatever.”

Those seem like non-sequiters to me. First he is talking about kidnapping, then he is talking about what they did or did not find. How do those two link? With a possible piece of luggage, fair point.
With something that belongs to Heather? (found at the house, not PTL)
The fact that her car was left at PTL? (she did not leave in the car she drove in with)
Using toothpaste as an example makes me think toothbrush (with Heather's DNA) or hair brush, makeup, something that someone used every day.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

First, we have to take the exact words of what he said. He did NOT say they didn't find a blouse or toothpaste. He said it would be IMPROPER to say they found those items. That could mean not correct, but improper is not normally used that way. Or it could mean that it would be irregular or inappropriate to say they found those things (or any things). What I want to know is if there were other words between:

"Keep in mind, kidnapping is simply keeping someone from being able to leave. “We have this idea that you put a bag over their head and take them out of state. Anytime you’re unable to leave, it is a kidnapping."
and
"I think it would be improper to say we found her blouse or we found her toothpaste or whatever.”

Those seem like non-sequiters to me. First he is talking about kidnapping, then he is talking about what they did or did not find. How do those two link? With a possible piece of luggage, fair point.
With something that belongs to Heather? (found at the house, not PTL)
The fact that her car was left at PTL? (she did not leave in the car she drove in with)
Using toothpaste as an example makes me think toothbrush (with Heather's DNA) or hair brush, makeup, something that someone used every day.

im·prop·er [im-prop-er] Show IPA
adjective
1.
not proper; not strictly belonging, applicable, correct, etc.; erroneous: He drew improper conclusions from the scant evidence.
2.
not in accordance with propriety of behavior, manners, etc.: improper conduct at a funeral.
3.
unsuitable or inappropriate, as for the purpose or occasion: improper attire for a formal dance.
4.
abnormal or irregular: improper functioning of the speech mechanism.

It would be improper to say they found her blouse or toothpaste if they didn't find them.

It would be improper to say they found her blouse or toothpaste if they want to keep that information private until the trial.

 

[nosysw]

I looked for the best thread to put this in...I dunno if it fits in any. But PeterThomasFan posted it on the Media thread, and I thought it was interesting and worth discussing, if only because nothing much else seems to be going on
(until Friday- that should get things jumping again).

A 21-year-old man living in the apartment Heather Elvis lived in when she went missing reported that when he came back from New Jersey, he noticed several odd and out-of-place things.
According to the June 17 report, the bathroom floor was flooded and the toilet was clogged.

There were dishes and containers in the sink that had not been there when he left, the report said.

More at link:
http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_b1286026-fb1e-11e3-9b42-0017a43b2370.html

Strange, huh?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Nosysw:

I don't know what to make of the news article above.......like wtheck?

I thought she had a female roommie that was out of state at the time of HE's disappearance (although they chatted early in the morning of her disappearance).

Now how does this guy roomie fit into the picture?

And what is this article implying????

 

[athy]

Nosysw:

I don't know what to make of the news article above.......like wtheck?

I thought she had a female roommie that was out of state at the time of HE's disappearance (although they chatted early in the morning of her disappearance).

Now how does this guy roomie fit into the picture?

And what is this article implying????

it sounds like he lives there now, not when HE lived there.

 

[nosysw]

Nosysw:

I don't know what to make of the news article above.......like wtheck?

I thought she had a female roommie that was out of state at the time of HE's disappearance (although they chatted early in the morning of her disappearance).

Now how does this guy roomie fit into the picture?

And what is this article implying????

Above BBM. I'm not sure. I thought you guys would know, lol

Her roommate was from NJ. Now this guy's from NJ. I'm from NJ. LOL. I have no idea :scared: And the comment below it was weird, too.

 

[OkieGranny]

it sounds like he lives there now, not when HE lived there.

Oh, lol, took me a minute to figure out what you were saying. When I see Heather's name abbreviated "HE", my first take is that a male is being referred to in a very emphatic manner. So I was like, who's the other guy... ?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Above BBM. I'm not sure. I thought you guys would know, lol

Her roommate was from NJ. Now this guy's from NJ. I'm from NJ. LOL. I have no idea :scared: And the comment below it was weird, too.

....and I'm from NJ too! :scared:



So it sounds like someone has the key to HE's old apartment and is coming and going? Maybe the superintendent is using it for whatever (?) purposes?
Why doesn't this guy just change the locks?

It is all so weird.....

 

[nosysw]

....and I'm from NJ too! :scared:



So it sounds like someone has the key to HE's old apartment and is coming and going? Maybe the superintendent is using it for whatever (?) purposes?
Why doesn't this guy just change the locks?

It is all so weird.....

And the note in Spanish. Dang. SO weird.

 

[nosysw]

Seriously, though. Are they implying that this person(s) Who is camping out in the apt. when he is away could be connected to Heather's disappearance rather than the Moorers?

 

[EmmaRose]

And the note in Spanish. Dang. SO weird.

I shouldn't be surprised with another bizarre reference to this case. Strange indeed. I wonder if the same person had access when the girls lived there.

 

[Manderz]

First thing that comes to mind is a stalker. Stalking whoever lives there now. They definitely feel comfortable in the apartment and don't care how obvious it is.(Or I could just be watching too many crime shows about stalking and how they like to make their victim feel crazy by moving their things around etc.) hmm.. I dunno, IMO I don't think it has anything to do with Heather.

 

[geevee]

I didn't see any reference to him making a report/complaint to the apartment management office, they would be the one in possession of extra keys or should be changing his locks if someone got a key some other way. They also should have immediately replaced the security bar to the sliding glass door, that's quite a security risk that could leave them open to liability if anything happened to the resident. esp. with proof that someone has been using his apartment without his permission.

 

[Hatfield]

I almost think this guy may know the person who is using his place. What are the odds he would know a Spanish speaking person from the apartments that the cup found was from.
There is an easy remedy to change the locks and make sure windows are locked and if someone then breaks in, then they have proof of a break in. He should also get a security camera and setup this person. I think he knows who it is. Maybe a previous GF or guy friend.


"According to the report, after the officer left, the victim called him to say that a full bottle of “ginger beer,” pesto, two bottles of wine and a Monarch 544 Apartments cup were also in the unit, and that bread was inside his toaster.
The victim also said two windows were unlocked.
In addition, the report said the victim found a note, written in Spanish, which translates to, “I love you very much.”
The victim provided information about a person the report called “Info 1 “ who speaks Spanish and lives in the Monarch Apartments."

 

[leighmarker]

Hungry stalker? Bread in the toaster?

 

[CHERIE.T]

lordy, another strange person, lol.