Evidence revealed during the course of the Wrongful Death action

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Are we sure there is insurance involved? What kind of insurance can one buy to protect one from the civil repercussions of murdering someone? Not sure that exists. I don't think homeowner's insurance would cover deliberate illegal acts. Would they even pay for cleaning up a suicide of one of the residents of the home? Anyone here with insider insurance information? I'm interested in this discussion.

I followed SKYLAR NEESE 2012 murder where just last month the Supreme Court finally decided the case on whether or not Homeowner's & Auto Policy required to provide defense for wrongful death suit (i.e., 16 yr old West Virginia teen stabbed to death by her two best friends because they didn't want to be her friend anymore). Seems insurance language not as clear as one would expect as it federal court asked for guidance from the highest court. Supreme Court advised: "....public policy precludes coverage for the because Skylar's murder was expected or intended by the daughters...".

http://www.dominionpost.com/Judge-rules-in-Neese-civ--il-cas
 
Ok here are some thoughts I had

Sometimes people who are in an extreme freak out will pull their own hair and bang their heads on things.

however

I think the clothes in the cottage belonged to RZ, I think Jonah was responsible for chasing her around the yard in the nude and causing her to fall, I think he dragged her around and carried her to the shower to cover up a sexual assault... I think he trussed her up and threw her over the balcony, Perhaps Dina and her sister showed up at some point and helped in the cover up. I don't think there was ever a call..I think he waited around for the empty house so he could torture Rebecca..I think when she went to the guesthouse the attack ensued. I think he found her witch ropes and tied her up, and she may have been tied up in the shower to remove dna and the red liquid could be from the bindings and the dye running into the shower...he may have taped her legs earlier so he could carry her with out her fighting him with her powerful legs. she may have been unconscious for some of this as she had been nearly strangled to death before the hanging.

I believe they all covered for him, as he claimed to be insane from ambien and grief. I think he found the gloves under the sink, and the whole thing was premeditated.

sometimes the simplest answer is the truth...her dna was on her own witch ropes, his was not because he wore gloves. case solved.
 
Ok here are some thoughts I had

Sometimes people who are in an extreme freak out will pull their own hair and bang their heads on things.

however

I think the clothes in the cottage belonged to RZ, I think Jonah was responsible for chasing her around the yard in the nude and causing her to fall, I think he dragged her around and carried her to the shower to cover up a sexual assault... I think he trussed her up and threw her over the balcony, Perhaps Dina and her sister showed up at some point and helped in the cover up. I don't think there was ever a call..I think he waited around for the empty house so he could torture Rebecca..I think when she went to the guesthouse the attack ensued. I think he found her witch ropes and tied her up, and she may have been tied up in the shower to remove dna and the red liquid could be from the bindings and the dye running into the shower...he may have taped her legs earlier so he could carry her with out her fighting him with her powerful legs. she may have been unconscious for some of this as she had been nearly strangled to death before the hanging.

I believe they all covered for him, as he claimed to be insane from ambien and grief. I think he found the gloves under the sink, and the whole thing was premeditated.

sometimes the simplest answer is the truth...her dna was on her own witch ropes, his was not because he wore gloves. case solved.

I don't think there were any "witch ropes". Just some rope used for boating/water skiing that were either purchased and brought to the mansion or found there in the garage.

The blood in the shower was RZ's blood. IIRC, SDSO tried to claim it was menstrual blood. There was also blood on the hallway floor outside of the murder room. I don't have a link now, but I recall reading an article once that noted any suicide by hanging should be investigated as a murder if the victim's blood is found any distance away from the death scene. eg. a hallway, stairway, etc. Same thing for any hanging suicide done near a room showing signs of a struggle. SDSO didn't do that.

A woman fitting Dina's description was scene outside the mansion around the time that RZ was still awake, per the records of her phone and text messages, so Dina was likely in on it from the beginning. Since RZ's clothes that she wore that day are missing, it's logical that she was attacked and bound before getting undressed. Atty Greer claims her clothes were cut off by Adam as part of a sexual assault. IIRC he also claims she chased outside. The room in most disarray, with chair knocked over, etc. was the murder scene in the mansion. The computer where someone viewed *advertiser censored* online was also there.

If Adam was attacking her in the guest room, seems he would have taken her into the shower there. But you make a good point about use of the shower after she was attacked, possibly unconscious or nearly so, to remove DNA evidence. The assault is likely why a clump of her hair was in the shower. I think RZ's underwear were found in Adam's room because he took them as a souvenir and forgot to get rid of them. Dina was involved because Adam needed to keep RZ under control while someone looked for tape and rope, until she could be tied up.

I'm going to have to go back and read some of the old archives.
 
yes to all...but I still think it started at the guest house..she may not have been tied up but unconscious in the shower but was awakened and possibly able to remove the tape from her legs and run and could have made it out to the yard , hence the muddy feet...either way, I believe this was a sexual assault and murder and the perpetrator felt justified...I think the all the other players have their hand in a cover up.
 
Just a quick update. I double checked the search warrants and there was no listing of any kind of black marker or felt tip pen. Only tubes of black paint and the two paintbrushes.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15505829/some-shacknai-search-warrants-to-be-unsealed

1. Knife
2. Pair black gloves
3. Paper towel w/red stains
4. Box w/paint supplies
5. Dr. Pepper bottle
6. Clothing
7. Flip camera
8. Basket w/cameras
9. Stain kit
10. Clump of hair
11. Document addressed to Jonah
12. Tissue w/red stain
13. Clothing
14. Hair
15. Receipt for paint supplies
16. Candle
17. Water bottle
18. Bedding
19. 2 red plastic cups
20. Underwear
21. Black latex glove
22. Table
23. Greeting card

24. Paper w/writing
25. Bedding
26. Butcher Knife
27. Steak knife
28. White plastic bag
29. Rope
30. Samsung cell phone
31. Paint brush
32. Stain kit
33. Small paint brush
34. Green & white striped towel
35. Bedroom door
36. Tube of black paint
37. Laptop computer
38. Mac computer
39. Olympus camera
40. Lumix camera
41. Swab kit
42. Swab kit
43. Swab kit
44. DNA swab
45. Print cards

Was the purpose of the second paintbrush to make it appear the wavy lines were painted with that brush? It's pretty obvious they weren't as the wavy line that frames the painted message was done in a continuous line.
 
My bad; I know kids are off limits, and rightly so.

Apologies to all.

Hi all,

I want to post a disclaimer. I heard through grapevine that there may be a new baby, not Max.
 
Ok here are some thoughts I had

Sometimes people who are in an extreme freak out will pull their own hair and bang their heads on things.

however

I think the clothes in the cottage belonged to RZ, I think Jonah was responsible for chasing her around the yard in the nude and causing her to fall, I think he dragged her around and carried her to the shower to cover up a sexual assault... I think he trussed her up and threw her over the balcony, Perhaps Dina and her sister showed up at some point and helped in the cover up. I don't think there was ever a call..I think he waited around for the empty house so he could torture Rebecca..I think when she went to the guesthouse the attack ensued. I think he found her witch ropes and tied her up, and she may have been tied up in the shower to remove dna and the red liquid could be from the bindings and the dye running into the shower...he may have taped her legs earlier so he could carry her with out her fighting him with her powerful legs. she may have been unconscious for some of this as she had been nearly strangled to death before the hanging.

I believe they all covered for him, as he claimed to be insane from ambien and grief. I think he found the gloves under the sink, and the whole thing was premeditated.

sometimes the simplest answer is the truth...her dna was on her own witch ropes, his was not because he wore gloves. case solved.

Apart from Witch rope and Jonah, I can see some of what you are saying might have happened.

I believe you mean Adam, not Jonah who might have attacked/murdered Rebecca.

I don't believe the ropes were witch ropes -- whatever that means -- and they didn't belong to Rebecca.

I think rope was either taken from the garage where LE found a big gap on shelf as if something went missing, and that the ropes belong to Jonah since he owns a yacht and goes boating often. Or the rope belonged to Adam. Since he was tugboat captain, he might have brought his own rope,if it was premeditated by him.

However, I still lean towards Dina premeditating the murder. The pattern of anger and hate from Dina towards Rebecca was not unusual and she did lunge for/attack/try to strangle both Jonah and Rebecca in the past. Also, the critical injury and potential loss of her only child -- a male heir -- likely pushed her over the edge with vindictive rage.

IN MY OPINION Adam was secondary. Dina might have paid him to help because he was not rich and needed the money. And he's not bright so he's naive, gullible and easily duped to carry out the murder/cover-up.
 
#555 posted on ROA today-- a whopping 410 pages. Will consider how/ if possible to post such a large document here-- this is just a head's up that it showed up on the ROA today.

555 02/15/2017 Motion - Other ((1) To Compel Further Responses to Mr. Shacknai's First and Second Sets of Discovery Requests, and (2) For Sanctions) filed by Shacknai, Adam. Shacknai, Adam (Defendant) Motion - Other

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/faces/CaseSearch.xhtml

Case Number: 37-2013-00075418-CU-PO-CTL
 
interestingly, a few yrs back, on the lhk box, a poster identified the Dr. Pepper as "diet" Dr. Pepper. wonder how they knew that?.....
Just a quick update. I double checked the search warrants and there was no listing of any kind of black marker or felt tip pen. Only tubes of black paint and the two paintbrushes.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15505829/some-shacknai-search-warrants-to-be-unsealed

1. Knife
2. Pair black gloves
3. Paper towel w/red stains
4. Box w/paint supplies
5. Dr. Pepper bottle
6. Clothing
7. Flip camera
8. Basket w/cameras
9. Stain kit
10. Clump of hair
11. Document addressed to Jonah
12. Tissue w/red stain
13. Clothing
14. Hair
15. Receipt for paint supplies
16. Candle
17. Water bottle
18. Bedding
19. 2 red plastic cups
20. Underwear
21. Black latex glove
22. Table
23. Greeting card

24. Paper w/writing
25. Bedding
26. Butcher Knife
27. Steak knife
28. White plastic bag
29. Rope
30. Samsung cell phone
31. Paint brush
32. Stain kit
33. Small paint brush
34. Green & white striped towel
35. Bedroom door
36. Tube of black paint
37. Laptop computer
38. Mac computer
39. Olympus camera
40. Lumix camera
41. Swab kit
42. Swab kit
43. Swab kit
44. DNA swab
45. Print cards

Was the purpose of the second paintbrush to make it appear the wavy lines were painted with that brush? It's pretty obvious they weren't as the wavy line that frames the painted message was done in a continuous line.
 
Speaking of that site, seems no one has posted in the last 7 months or so. I would surmise that they finally took their attorney's advice to stay away from social media lest it comes back to bite them.
 
Speaking of that site, seems no one has posted in the last 7 months or so. I would surmise that they finally took their attorney's advice to stay away from social media lest it comes back to bite them.

Actually someone recently posted a new thread on LHK on 2/17/2017 at 3:30am. It's entitled "Keith Greer is a Big, Fat, Liar-Liar, Pants-on-Fire." I would post screencaps but I think it may violated TOS on WS.
 
Actually someone recently posted a new thread on LHK on 2/17/2017 at 3:30am. It's entitled "Keith Greer is a Big, Fat, Liar-Liar, Pants-on-Fire." I would post screencaps but I think it may violated TOS on WS.

LOL! Sounds like Team Dina, unplugged! I wouldn't touch that site with a 10 foot pole tied to the end of another 10 foot pole, even WITH that very mature, professional-sounding thread title.
:hilarious:
 
:eek:hwow:
Actually someone recently posted a new thread on LHK on 2/17/2017 at 3:30am. It's entitled "Keith Greer is a Big, Fat, Liar-Liar, Pants-on-Fire." I would post screencaps but I think it may violated TOS on WS.

Sounds like someone definitely very close to or in the situation. Just WOW.

:eek:hwow:
 
Any update, K_Z? Anything we can do to help? TIA

I have #555, but still not sure of the best way to post the 410 pages. Will see if Bessie can help.

Here is the direct link-- it will work for a few hours-- not sure how long.

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/face...A-555_02-15-17_Motion_Other_1488139552377.pdf

4 new entries on the SD ROA, all dealing with AS adding a new attorney to his team:

559 02/23/2017 Proposed Order (RE Application of Allen Black for Admission Pro Hac Vice as Counsel for Defendant Adam Shacknai) submitted by Shacknai, Adam; Shacknai, Adam received but not filed on 02/23/2017. Shacknai, Adam (Defendant); Shacknai, Adam (Defendant) RE Application of Allen Black for Admission Pro Hac Vice as Counsel for Defendant Adam Shacknai

558 02/23/2017 Declaration - Other (Attestation of Krista M Enns Regarding Payment of Pro Hac Vice Fees for the Verified App of Allen Black) filed by Shacknai, Adam; Shacknai, Adam. Shacknai, Adam (Defendant); Shacknai, Adam (Defendant) Attestation of Krista M Enns Regarding Payment of Pro Hac Vice Fees for the Verified App of Allen Black

557 02/23/2017 Motion to Appear Pro Hac Vice (For Allen Black as Counsel for Defendant Adam Shacknai) filed by Shacknai, Adam; Shacknai, Adam. Shacknai, Adam (Defendant); Shacknai, Adam (Defendant) For Allen Black as Counsel for Defendant Adam Shacknai

556 02/21/2017 Returned Mail (NOTICE OF RESCHEDULED HEARING - STATUS CONFERENCE SET FOR 4/14/2017) filed by The Superior Court of San Diego.
Refers to: Robertson, Drew

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/faces/CaseSearch.xhtml
Case Number: 37-2013-00075418-CU-PO-CTL

And of interest:

Case Age: 1201 days
 
I haven't read the whole 400+ page document yet, but this is interesting! (Apologies for the choppiness of the formatting in the quote box.)

From page 6:

F. While Refusing to Respond to Mr. Shacknai's Discovery, Plaintiffs' Counsel Talks to the Media About Purported Evidence in His Possession.

Significantly, while Plaintiffs' counsel has delayed, promised, and stonewalled Mr. Shacknai's legitimate requests for discovery regarding the evidence in support of Plaintiffs' claims, he has given media interviews to litigate this matter in the press and comment on evidence he claims to have in his possession.

The most recent interview aired on the evening of February 9, 2017. Enns Decl. at ¶ 19. During the interview, Plaintiffs' counsel stated that he has "very strong" evidence that
the Decedent was murdered. Id.

Specifically with respect to the alleged perpetrator, he stated: "It wasn't an absolute novice. You have to have some understanding of knot tying. There are marine
knot characteristics involved and principles which is consistent with Adam being a tugboat captain."
Id.

While he is willing to talk about the existence of this supposed evidence to the media, he is refusing to provide it to Mr. Shacknai. When asked to provide all facts that the allegation that the knots binding the Decedents hands and ankles had "nautical qualities" (SAC ¶ 27), Plaintiffs are
refusing to answer. E.g., Sep. Stmt. at 148-151 (Robert SpRog No. 13). 2

Separately, the news lead in to the interview with Plaintiffs' counsel's stated that "millions of dollars" had been offered to Plaintiffs to settle the case, and that Plaintiffs had rejected this offer. Enns Decl. at if 19. This statement was false, and Plaintiff's counsel later admitted that this statement was not only improper but untrue. Id. Nevertheless, he retweeted the interview on his Twitter page. Id

Plaintiffs' counsel has long been making statements to the media about the purported evidence proving his case, the strength of his case, the procedural posture of the case, and otherwise litigating the matters in controversy in the press. For example, in October 2014, he was quoted by a
media outlet as claiming that he already has come forward with evidence in this case: 'The judge in this case made us really come forward with evidence and show exactly who did what, when they did it and how they did it,' said Greer. 'And we included that in this complaint." Enns Deel. at If 20
(emphasis added).

And in May 2015, it was reported that he "told NBC7 there is now a piece of evidence he thinks could be the key to this mysterious case: an audio recording of investigators interviewing a woman who was near the Spreckels Mansion before Zahau's body was discovered." Id It is unclear why this merited the coverage it received. Four years ago, Plaintiffs' then-counsel was brandishing the exact same information in support of her contention that the Decedent was murdered. Id.

More recently, Plaintiffs' counsel has started "tweeting" about the case. For example, on January 9, 2017, he tweeted "Please help us find other Zahau murder witnesses," implying that his investigation of the claims has revealed at least one witnesses, maybe more. Enns Decl. at ij 21 (emphasis added). Yet he has refused for months to provide Mr. Shacknai with the identities of any
such witnesses. See, e.g., Sep. Stmt. at 8, 10, 16, 19, 32, 38-39, 42-43.

Undoubtedly, there is more of this to come. Indeed, Plaintiffs' counsel has promised as much on his Twitter page: "I will be sharing key events about Rebecca's case as we get closer to trial. Buckle your seat belt." Enns Decl. at I 21. None of these comments are covered by the litigation privilege. 3

For years, Plaintiffs' counsel has been making statements outside this courtroom about this case and the purportedly strong evidence he has. Yet, at the same time, he is refusing to provide any such evidence or, indeed, any meaningful response to discovery requests seeking information about the allegations in the operative complaint.
 
So the Zahaus' lawyer, Keith Greer, LIED about a settlement? :liar:

Those that have facts to back up their accusations don't need to lie. KWIM? :maddening:
 
^^^ Could be the defendant's lawyer is lying ;)

Also imo, seems AS's team is feeling a bit nervous.....perhaps because Nina is no longer a defendant ? :lol:
 
I had a thought. Maybe the Zahau plaintiffs did indeed "turn down millions", but the millions offered were not officially a "settlement" offer from one or more of the defendants.

For example, it's possible someone other than a defendant offered the Zahau plaintiffs "millions" to drop/ withdraw their lawsuit. Someone quite wealthy, with an intense interest in concluding this whole messy thing. Hmmmm......someone who might be willing to throw a lot of $$ at a problem to make it go away. Speculation.

Perhaps Greer was simply letting that "slip" in the interview, that money was offered to the plaintiffs to drop the suit. If AS wasn't the source of the so called "settlement" offer, then he and his attorneys have a legitimate foundation on which to act all "aggrieved", and accuse Greer of being a liar. Verbal gymnastics.

I think the plaintiffs were offered "millions", but it was not an official "settlement offer."

That's my take on the settlement revelation in SD ROA document 555, reading between the lines.

The Zahau family had the opportunity to settle the lawsuit for millions of dollars, but they refused. Greer said for the family, this is about honor.

http://www.abc15.com/news/region-no...s-death-of-rebecca-zahau-at-spreckels-mansion
 
I haven't read the whole 400+ page document yet, but this is interesting! (Apologies for the choppiness of the formatting in the quote box.)

From page 6:

Good grief, what a lot of "nitpicking" in the statements of the defense attorneys. They complain about how the case has dragged along when they're the ones responsible.

As for the settlement, we learned a long time ago to not believe anything they say. They've been caught in lies many times before. Offering a settlement through third parties is a very plausible scenario. Shacknai/Romanos would do such a thing for just this reason - if it was turned down, they could deny ever offering it.

Interesting also that they complain about Greer making statements on Twitter. Seems the defense is very attuned to the idea of using SM / internet public forums to sway public opinion on a case. Hmmm...wonder where we've seen that before?

All of the arguments above sound like projection - the defense blaming the Zahaus for things they (the defense) is actually doing. If they have such a strong defense, why are they dragging the case out for so many years?

Thanks for posting K_Z!
 

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