Evidence That is Incompatible With an Accident Theory

[Jolynna]

I guess we need to wait for all the evidence to come out, because right now there is not anything that clearly says Caylee death was not an accident even though in our hearts we know this mother murdered her baby.

What clearly says it wasn't an accident is the duct tape over Caylee's mouth.

Duct tape doesn't fall in gag position naturally.

Casey's deliberate, methodical calls/texts to her mother dangling carrots (Cays and I will be home tomorrow) every day show Casey was in touch with reality. Casey cooked, cleaned, maintained relationships, managed shot girls and promoted Fusian. She wasn't catatonic or more manic than those she hung out with. She cunningly scheduled meetings with Cindy out of the Anthony house when she needed to get into it.

Casey doesn't think she's somebody else. She isn't delusional. She knew what is in her car. She might refer to Caylee as a dead animal, but the skulls she downloaded were human. She was plotting and asking for "one more day" down to the end and stealing money to go.

I see no signs that Casey wanted Caylee's disappearance to look like a kidnapping. She doesn't put out hints that Zani is involved in shady doings. She says Zani is a jewel she's lucky to have. Zani comes from money. She is always surrounded by kids and taking them to theme parks. THIS is what Casey said about Zani AFTER Caylee was dead. Where's the kidnapping set-up in that?

Even as Casey was being arrested she was insisting Caylee called her on July 15. Even THEN Casey was trying to convince everyone that Caylee was still alive and NOT to worry. Casey didn't say, "feel sorry for me a kidnapper has Caylee". No...it was, "Caylee's fine, I just talked to her. Let me have Tony's phone number."

Casey didn't immediately tell Cindy that a kidnapper took Caylee. She didn't tell anybody THAT until the cops were on their way and Casey was told she was going to have to take them to Caylee. Cindy had to remind Casey about the kidnapper when Casey talked to 911.

I don't think on June 16 a kidnapper ever crossed Casey's mind.

The July 15 phone call "from Caylee" is inconsistant with a kidnapping story planned on June 16.

The July 15 phone call IS consistant with Casey trying to convince Cindy that Caylee was fine so Casey could get "one more day".
IMO

 

[badme102]

I had a theory when we first heard about the duct tape, that KC had placed it over her eyes, because they were open and she couldn't bear to have Caylee looking back at her. Over time and decomposition, the tape slipped down to her skeletal mouth. Then I found out about the sticker and the theory was shot.
I just can't wrap my mind around ever placing duct tape, for any reason on a 2yo child...dead or alive unless you didn't want them to scream for some reason and didn't care if they got tape caught in their hair. Casey wasn't planning on removing that tape IMO.

(bolded by me)

WOW! That point is very compelling...and horrific...(and probably true!)

 

[SissyPo]

There is to much evidence to prove she murdered Caylee. The evidence will be what convicts her of murder.
I am sure there are evidences that the public does not know yet but will come out when she goes to trial.
When we see that i feel she will be convicted of murder 1.

 

[Wasaga]

You make some very good points!

I also cannot believe after such a horrible, tragic accident she would be able to cooly stroll through Blockbuster picking out murder flicks with her lover, then go cuddle up at his place to watch.

Probably got her groove on, too....not a care in the world as her baby lay dead in her trunk. :furious::sick: jmo

Exactly. We could say Casey panicked after an accident and then felt she had to cover it up, hence the lies etc. But, I can't accept her carefree partying behavior after an accident. When I first got my license I hit a neighbor's cat that was racing across the street. I felt so bad I didn't want to show my face outside for days. And I don't even like cats.

Casey should have been absolutely devastated if she accidently hurt her own daughter.

 

[one_hooah_wife]

I agree--every orifice and every wound could potentially leak fluids. Fluids don't all come rushing out of the mouth alone...

Add to these facts the rates for decomposition would be at their highest peak in the hot Florida summer and in a steaming Florida car trunk. Add to this the FACT that there were evidence of flies/maggots and, frankly, this would have been a messy situation very quickly. It would be NOTHING that putting a swatch of duct tape on Caylee's mouth was going to dam.

Theonly1 ... you and I typically agree on things ... I am sure you can see the one thing that has been glaringly obvious to me ... if the defense were going to claim accident there would be NO NEED TO COUNTER the evidence! As I have said over and over ... the evidence would be the same accident or not ... even the duct tape could be explained, as an after thought ... but the fact that the defense employees sooooo many expert witnesses to counter the forensic evidence, in effect, says that they are not going to claim it was an accident.

 

[Cat13067]

What clearly says it wasn't an accident is the duct tape over Caylee's mouth.

Duct tape doesn't fall in gag position naturally.

Casey's deliberate, methodical calls/texts to her mother dangling carrots (Cays and I will be home tomorrow) every day show Casey was in touch with reality. Casey cooked, cleaned, maintained relationships, managed shot girls and promoted Fusian. She wasn't catatonic or more manic than those she hung out with. She cunningly scheduled meetings with Cindy out of the Anthony house when she needed to get into it.

Casey doesn't think she's somebody else. She isn't delusional. She knew what is in her car. She might refer to Caylee as a dead animal, but the skulls she downloaded were human. She was plotting and asking for "one more day" down to the end and stealing money to go.

I see no signs that Casey wanted Caylee's disappearance to look like a kidnapping. She doesn't put out hints that Zani is involved in shady doings. She says Zani is a jewel she's lucky to have. Zani comes from money. She is always surrounded by kids and taking them to theme parks. THIS is what Casey said about Zani AFTER Caylee was dead. Where's the kidnapping set-up in that?

Even as Casey was being arrested she was insisting Caylee called her on July 15. Even THEN Casey was trying to convince everyone that Caylee was still alive and NOT to worry. Casey didn't say, "feel sorry for me a kidnapper has Caylee". No...it was, "Caylee's fine, I just talked to her. Let me have Tony's phone number."

Casey didn't immediately tell Cindy that a kidnapper took Caylee. She didn't tell anybody THAT until the cops were on their way and Casey was told she was going to have to take them to Caylee. Cindy had to remind Casey about the kidnapper when Casey talked to 911.

I don't think on June 16 a kidnapper ever crossed Casey's mind.

The July 15 phone call "from Caylee" is inconsistant with a kidnapping story planned on June 16.

The July 15 phone call IS consistant with Casey trying to convince Cindy that Caylee was fine so Casey could get "one more day".
IMO

I personally think KC is guilty of murdering Caylee, however can I say 100% with all the evidence that I have read, and seen that Caylee was not a victim of an accidental killing...no. I can say that KC is a lair and a theif, because there is actual proof of her shopping at Target and cashing a check at a local bank with AH checks. Would I believe anything she said, no. My hope is LE has evidence that shows KC murdered Caylee and it was pre-mediatated beyond any reasonable doubt.

 

[DotsEyes]

The tape could have been placed post-mortem. We have no evidence otherwise.

KC sitting in jail waiting for trial to tell the "real" story is THE incompatible issue with an accidental death theory.

 

[SWEETSPYRIT]

I think think KC left the house with Caylee screaming for her grandmother--she was got so pizzed that Caylee would scream for the bi!ch that just jumped her butt because Caylee told grandma some things that mama had been doing------Caylee sleeping in the same bed as KC and a man and no telling what else----so KC stopped the car-----wrapped d/t around her head---she was so mad at CA and caylee tattling and threw baby Caylee in the trunk. Maybe tape covered mouth and nose or KC held nose. She drove around until Caylee quit bangin in the trunk. She then went and had her 1st night of total freedom.

I think the heart was placed when she moved the body from the trunk.

WOW - you hit it right on - I was just trying to find the info back from the FBI lab to qualify my exact line of thinking and that has been my theory all along. This is what I found:

FBI LAB RESULTS DATED 9/24/08

PAGE 23

Additionally, several of the identified compounds are typically associated with anaerobic decomposition. While the actual significance of this not known, it indicates that any type of decompositional event that might have been associated with the odor in the trunk of the car could have occurred under deprived oxygen conditions.

 

[JBean]

bumpity bump

 

[tweety933]

The duct tape that was found "layered" upon Cayless mouth and nose.

 

[akashana]

In the beginning I believed that it was an accident. I guess I just had a hard time conceiving that a young, normal-looking mom could murder her adorable baby and say nothing to anyone for a month or more. I figured that she drowned due to KC's negligence and that KC panicked, setting the chain of events in motion. But I think that if it had truly been accidental, she would have laid her cards on the table when the state trotted out the DP the 1st time. I don't see somebody that young taking that huge of a gamble with their life if there was evidence to back up a lesser conviction of manslaughter, etc. But I think that she knew that if the body was discovered in the early decomp stages it would blow the accident theory all to hell, and then where would she be? Facing the DP with evidence she had supplied to them. So I think that her only option at that point was to remain mum and protest her innocence, all the while letting time be her ally by destroying crucial bits of evidence that could only worsen her case. There was always the chance the body would go undiscovered, or she could get word to a sympathetic family member who could spirit her away for an undisclosed burial. We see that DC was tipped off as to the location and searched himself. We've also heard that JB said if a body was found not to call LE. Who does that? All we know for certain is that bones were not fractured to cause death. What about a knife wound to the abdominal area, lacerating the liver? Soft tissue and organ damage that may have been identifiable last summer, but that were completely eradicated come winter when the body was found. Smothering leaves evidence (petecchial hemorrhaging) that time also erases, and we do have the duct tape in perfect place for that scenario.

These are my reasons for no longer buying the accidental death scenario. I just can't believe somebody would "roll the bones" betting that she would walk on a DP case if she wasn't fully aware the evidence would hang her high.

 

[Jolynna]

The duct tape that was found "layered" upon Cayless mouth and nose.

That says it all.

 

[Brini]

The problem I have with this theory is the duct tape was not just stuck on to the mouth ie: to prevent fluids from leaking- it was wrapped, it was stuck to the sides of her hair, the hair had to be cut away from it.

I go along with Dr. Perper's firm theory: the placement of duct tape on the child shows the child was assaulted. It shows the murder was intentional.

There is also the legal precident from the Huck case-- there is no reason to tape the mouth (and nose) of a dead person.

KC could have donethe whole berieved mother thing, with the accident, and the panic, if she did it IMMEDIATELY when she was caught. MAYBE she could have got away with it, then (though, with her behaviors, it's a bit fi a stretch). That boat has sailed and has sunk, with all hands aboard, months ago.

 

[Brini]

To me the ONLY thing compatible with a accident is her immaturity. I can't see KC dealing with the reality of "bodily fluids". More likely, IF it was a accident, it would be a loss of temper. Angry at her mother, Caylee crying, wanting her to stop, that kind of thing. Duct tape will make her be quiet. Then when the unthinkable happens, KC would need to hide it. A few bags and stash it out of sight until she can figure out what to do. Maybe a few hours later or a day, a heart sticker gets placed, in some misguided show of love. When she can no longer avoid it, due to smell, or maybe a close call, she dumps the body.

But even this doesnt get past 31 days of no sign of remorse or sadness. The biggest danger in this case is over thinking it. Sometimes the simplest answer is best. And for KC I don't think any scenario that fits even the simplest facts gets her off the hook.

And, with KC, it looks like it's the simplest answer, anyway.

Remember when we were all analyzing ad nauseum "KC Clues" as to where Caylee's body was stashed? We came up with all sorts of theories, including Blanchard Park.

But, KC does the simplest thing-- tosses the baby out right down the street.

 

[hornswoggled]

Casey Anthony is a liar. It has been documented. Repeatedly.

 

[Ripley007]

And, with KC, it looks like it's the simplest answer, anyway.

Remember when we were all analyzing ad nauseum "KC Clues" as to where Caylee's body was stashed? We came up with all sorts of theories, including Blanchard Park.

But, KC does the simplest thing-- tosses the baby out right down the street.

I so agree. And I can't overlook the fact that KC SEEMED to be speaking in "code" to Lee. She DID admit her computer password as being "Timer 55" and when asked if her PW was a clue she said YES! And low and behold, Caylee was found 55 seconds (drive Time) away from the A home. Yeah, I know, I know...Timer 55 would also seem to relate to the day she set this PW with the departure date of the PR vacay she did not attend. So what. It doesn't NEGATE the FACT that it also relates to Caylee's "dump site". JMHO.

 

[Brini]

I so agree. And I can't overlook the fact that KC SEEMED to be speaking in "code" to Lee. She DID admit her computer password as being "Timer 55" and when asked if her PW was a clue she said YES! And low and behold, Caylee was found 55 seconds (drive Time) away from the A home. Yeah, I know, I know...Timer 55 would also seem to relate to the day she set this PW with the departure date of the PR vacay she did not attend. So what. It doesn't NEGATE the FACT that it also relates to Caylee's "dump site". JMHO.

Yep! She's very good at diversion, and very good at getting people to think she's smarter than she really is.

We EXPECT more intelligence, because we ARE more intelligent. And, she baffled all of us for so long.

So, we all (self in particular) looked for more sophistication re: criminal behavior than really existed.

 

[Intermezzo]

Yep! She's very good at diversion, and very good at getting people to think she's smarter than she really is.

We EXPECT more intelligence, because we ARE more intelligent. And, she baffled all of us for so long.

So, we all (self in particular) looked for more sophistication re: criminal behavior than really existed.

ITA Brini
Many sleuthers have put alot of time looking into, researching, branching out and looking for places and people based on Casey's words thinking they are clues...sometimes I think we may be looking at this case and Casey in a more sophisticated manner than needs be.
.
I too, at first, thought it was an accident but the revelation of Casey's actions from June 16th onward was no accident IMHO. For 31 days...she purposefully, deliberately and succesfully kept herself away from her parents telling them lie after lie after lie about her and Caylee's whereabouts. She could have fessed up say it was an accident when it happened or when Cindy found her and demanded to be brought to Caylee or when LE was called in but she made the conscious decision to lie yet again about Caylee's whereabouts. Casey had opportunities to come clean and she made the choice not to.
That's my :twocents:

 

[LambChop]

FBI LAB RESULTS DATED 9/24/08

PAGE 23

Additionally, several of the identified compounds are typically associated with anaerobic decomposition. While the actual significance of this not known, it indicates that any type of decompositional event that might have been associated with the odor in the trunk of the car could have occurred under deprived oxygen conditions.

Could this have been caused by putting the duct tape across the mouth and the nose?

 

[Firefly]

When there is an ACCIDENT you report it and get help. You don't cover up accidents as if you didn't want anyone to know.

In a my sarcastic voice......"Hello, I'd like to report an accident/someone missing that happened 31 days ago my daughter has been kidnapped!!" I can only say that the absence of a 911 call until CA got to her is blatant proof that there was never an accident. This was ALL deliberate. Casey has MEANT to do everything with no regret.
Dancing and kissing girls/guys, getting tatoos, losing Blackberry phones, taking LE to her "job", blaming deadly smells on pizzas and squirrels.

Oh, my favorite, is claiming to have had a Nanny (geesh who employs one with NO contact info/pictures/paper trails) that took her baby and then never reports a missing missing child. Now she is in a jail cell because she she is waiting for LE and the prosecution to spend many man hours (and our tax dollars) proving that this human being never existed....hello, Casey, how can we believe that this was ever an accident. You better pray you have great council that can refute the facts that the Proscecution will present in court.

Bottom line here, there was never an accident.