Family battling Children’s Hospital to bring teen home for Christmas

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This is a rhetorical comment:

I have often wondered why Justina was sent to see a psychologist at the age of about nine and why she then continued to see a psychologist for the next 5 years. It seems out of the ordinary to me.
Referring to my original thought, I do not wonder what the psychologist diagnosed her with. He has already stated that. And according to him he first saw her in 2006, which would make her more like 7 or at most, 8 years old when the parents first elected to take her to see a psychologist. I suppose it was all paid for by insurance otherwise why would it continue for the next SEVEN years?

So, I still wonder what prompted the parents to elect to take their 7 year old daughter to see a psychologist. If there is an answer, it should have nothing to do with the psychologist who also apparently does not understand basic Hippa rules.
 
As I just said in the post you were responding to, psychologist diagnosed her with low grade depression stemming from her physical issues.


Based on what? What action was taken? Was this child in therapy as a result of this psychologists recommendation? Was this child medicated ? How often did this child see this psychologist? Once? Twice a year? Weekly?


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It does seem that way. But you know, the parents really aren't doing themselves any favors. They have seemed quite overbearing and aggressive and histrionic at times. Quite telling was the Connecticut facility's response to them stating they would not take Justina because they "could not afford a protracted legal battle".

That was after the dad screamed and hollered about the place and then changed his mind and wanted Justina there.

Too late.

And I don't blame the facility one bit.

I have deep concerns about this case. I have deep concerns about BCH's actions (possibly knee-jerk, too rapid and retaliatory conclusions about the family and the child - medical abuse determinations usually take months, not one hospital stay). And I have deep concerns about possible government overreach and intrusion into constitutionally protected parental rights, on the part of DCF and the courts. And let me tell you, I've personally seen it happen.

Example? I had client with a frighteningly abusive husband. He had been diagnosed with intermittent explosive disorder, bi polar disorder, alcohol abuse and could've been diagnosed with more but he abruptly stopped the process and would not allow the psychiatrists to continue with their evaluation.

He liked to beat the tar out of people. He beat up a parking attendant for angering him. He beat an old homeless man into the hospital. He attacked my client's female friends during parties. He battered my client, ruthlessly, on numerous occasions.

He liked to stare at little girls in the store.

He was very, very sinister and creepy and manipulative and violently scary and he's the only opposing party I've ever had a nightmare about.

Well, I got a restraining order against him and only supervised visits for him with the parties' infant girl.

Fast forward a year. The private monitor is a nut. She fell for the guy, I think or for his manipulations. She allowed a visit to occur against protocol even though he reeked of alcohol, because he said someone spilled it on him (and he never changed his shirt). She told him where my client lived. She even had him drive into the gates behind her as she went to pick up the child for a visit, which was a horrible breach of the rules.

Worse, she started telling my client that she should get back together with her abuser - that he wasn't that bad.

In the meantime, the husband wasn't paying support as ordered and my client became homeless. She ended up in various very sketchy living situations. The baby became covered with fleas bites at one place and they stole all her money. My client ended up walking on the street, crying, with a sick baby and nowhere to go. She went back to the house and banged on the door demanding her stuff and money. She called the police and they told her it was a civil matter. She asked or help with housing and they called social services.

Social services came and the woman immediately had a bad attitude. The worker asked where the father was and couldn't he pick up the child? My client explained that he was violent and shouldn't be able to take the kid, but she made a mistake and gave the worker the monitor's number.

That's was it.

The monitor colluded with the father and social services and he went into court (new judge now) and got emergency, temporary custody with no notice to my client. She was at a motel and social services came with the police and took the child.


The child was given to the father.

The judge made a mistake. He was 100% unaware of the restraining order and supervised visitation order. He realized his mistake a week later and belated modified the restraining order to allow the father to have custody of the now two year old who had not seen her father except for sporadic supervised visits, since she was 4 months old.

It took me an entire year of court to get the kid back. The judge and social services could not admit their mistake. They would lose face. So the child remained with the psycho. Luckily, she was cared for primarily by his very elderly parents but she came out of it with an intense startle reflex and no speech.

This is one example. I can give more. So I know the danger of unfettered bureaucracy.

That being said, I recognize the Pelletiers. I have had numerous clients like them and those clients have been nightmares.

Are they guilty of medical abuse? I don't know. Possibly. I have my doubts. But I have no doubt that their behavior has helped foster this night mare.

I just can't agree with those who say it is all the Pelletier's fault. If they what? Agree with the unlawful taking of their daughter? Agree with all the injustice that has taken place? It was many months before he spoke publicly because he was trusting the court system. They believed the Judge would do the right thing. After so long, it is understandable that they are angry. It would not be a normal human response to not be angry. I still support the family, and want Justina to be sent home to her loving family.
 
Justina is in DCF custody because she is not a Muslim terrorist:

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinio...5/carr_justina_pelletier_needs_jokers_justice

I think some of these supporters do more harm than good for Justina.

If they don't see that the Boston terrorist's family is absolutely irrelevant to Justina's diagnosis and whether DCF was right or wrong to release the parents from the custody it kind of casts doubt on the whole of their judgment and if they have something to the point to say about Justina it's more difficult to take them seriously.

I think people are not realizing the important facts here. The devil is in the details. Justina has not been afforded the same rights as any other patient in Bader 5, or at Wayside. She has had none of the civil rights we all have. She has had less rights than convicted incarcerated felons. That is the outrage here. Not so much that she was taken from her parents, but I believe the reason she was taken was wrong, but that she hasn't been treated fairly. The poor girl has done nothing wrong yet she is punished by the system that is supposed to protect children.
 
I do exactly as every other normal parent does which has been to take my children to their pediatrician and let her coordinate whatever tests, specialist consultations are needed.

Yes, because all the doctors are just so wonderful.
 
The state has a duty to Justina to protect her safety and they are doing just that. Unfortunately, not all parents are fit to care for their ill children and the state must step in to protect them. Justina isn't the first child to be shielded from her parents and unfortunately, she won't be the last.

JMO

When Justina gets out of her confinement, she will divulge details that will illustrate just the opposite of protection. They told her and her parents she wasn't really medically ill, it was in her head, that is abusive, imo.
 
I have to disagree with the part I have bolded. Justina also has rights which include the right to receive medical treatment and correct diagnosis.

Parents have never had a "right" to diagnose or treat a disease in another human being "as they see fit."

What I truly do not understand is the refusal of the parents to cooperate. Their actions give the impression they really don't want her closer and don't want to care for her.

JMO

I am curious if the posters here all have children. Her parents were taking her to licensed physicians for her medical care. They were not diagnosing. But they were told that her daughter didn't have a medical condition, after less than an hour spent by a resident neurologist. Then they were told they had to sign and agree to this hospital taking her off medication for her previous MEDICAL diagnosis and agreeing it was all in her head. Refusing to sign and removing her from Boston Children's to take her back to Tufts for medical treatment is exactly what they should have done.
 
What is the correct diagnosis here?
BCH forbade her parents from seeking a second opinion.
If they are so sure about their diagnosis, what would be the problem of having a second opinion?
And the treatment for supposed somatoform didn't seem to do her any good.

It was stated on Dr. Phil by more than one doctor that somatoform isn't treated in a hospital setting. But it is true, that the doctors/psychologists who "diagnosed" her were performing a study on somatoform funded by the NIH at the time they took Justina, and I think it was supposed to last at least a year. Hmmm.
 
Yes, because all the doctors are just so wonderful.

right, just like all parents are... see how that works? it adds nothing to the discussion.

you keep trying to simplify this case into statements of black/white, it isnt that simple.

"they locked this girl up just because her parents wanted a second opinion!"

do you have any idea how many times a week/month/year parents get medical opinions from children's hospital and ask to seek a second opinion, or choose to have their child treated somewhere else and ask for them to be moved/discharged?

it is not some strange thing that would really upset them...

but, in a case where the parents have a long history of being accused of "doctor shopping", rejecting diagnosis', and not following the advice of doctors... well yeah, you might have a hospital that finally feels that it is their legal responsibility to say "no, we cant allow you to do that and must report this to the state authorities".

you can disagree all you want with their opinion, but you are mistaken to ascribe to it some nefarious purpose, or say that it must be negligent.

this idea that children's hospital just cant wait to get the state involved and remove children from their families is absolutely absurd. do you have any idea how much it complicates EVERYTHING for them once they do that? do you have any idea how much liability they open themselves up to every time they do that?

I have been accused several times of not believing anything the parents say, this is another falsehood. I have never said anything bad about the parents, just because I dont automatically believe everything they say does not mean i dont believe anything they say...
 
BCH didn't forbid her parents from seeking a second opinion, they prevented her parents from removing her from the hospital after they delivered her there in an ambulance. BCH WAS the second opinion.

I'm a layman, not a doctor. Doctors made the diagnosis and determined treatment. Unfortunately not all conditions respond to treatment.

JMO

They did forbid the parents from seeking a second opinion.

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1.0-9/1902940_10201254603397480_1982962476_n.jpg
 
If BCH were the second opinion, then they were different from the first.
In which case a third opinion was needed.
And the treatment plan BCH had for Justina specifically forbade her parents from seeking another opinion.

The parents did not take Justina to Boston's for a diagnosis or second opinion. They took her there for her to be examined by HER Gastroenterologist who had moved from Tufts to Boston's. He did go to see her within days of her being admitted to Boston's but was rudely escorted out of the room and was forbidden from examining her. Unbelievable, but true. To me it is obvious the doctors who more or less hijacked her care had an agenda.
 
Yeah, I'm very curious about that psychologist too. Seeing a psychologist for 5 YEARS? How often ? Exactly? What exactly was she seen for?


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Well, Justina had a stroke at a young age, and those knowledgeable say that is consistent with Mito. When she began experiencing severe gastro problems, surgeons went in and found a long congetial band around her colon and removed it, such could have caused death. After that she experienced pain because the band was removed. She probably went to a psychologist because a doctor recommended she do so. Her parents were very diligent to her needs.
 
Interesting that she has supposedly seen a psychologist all those years yet one of the hangers-on groups are the anti-psychology Scientologists and other assorted anti-psychiatry folks.

Psychologists don't prescribe meds with bad side effects, they help the patient in a therapeutic way, listen, make suggestions. Psychiatrists put patients on potent medication cocktails, that can make it hard for a person to function normally. Just my opinion.
 
Referring to my original thought, I do not wonder what the psychologist diagnosed her with. He has already stated that. And according to him he first saw her in 2006, which would make her more like 7 or at most, 8 years old when the parents first elected to take her to see a psychologist. I suppose it was all paid for by insurance otherwise why would it continue for the next SEVEN years?

So, I still wonder what prompted the parents to elect to take their 7 year old daughter to see a psychologist. If there is an answer, it should have nothing to do with the psychologist who also apparently does not understand basic Hippa rules.

I stated in an earlier post that Justina had a stroke at a young age, she also had a congenital band removed from her colon about age 7. It was probably for those reasons.
 
Well, at this stage of the game, "probably for those reasons" does not satisfy my curiousity. Based on what I know about the story I can think up and speculate on many possibilities too, but they don't mean anything. I want to know precisely why and when the parents decided to send her to a psychologist. I want to hear them tell it.
 
I think the "reunification" proposal is being presented tomorrow. Maybe Justina will be able to go back to Connecticut and be with her family.
 
The parents did not take Justina to Boston's for a diagnosis or second opinion. They took her there for her to be examined by HER Gastroenterologist who had moved from Tufts to Boston's. He did go to see her within days of her being admitted to Boston's but was rudely escorted out of the room and was forbidden from examining her. Unbelievable, but true. To me it is obvious the doctors who more or less hijacked her care had an agenda.

I know.
But BCH re-diagnosed her and forbade the parents from seeking another opinion.
 
I just can't agree with those who say it is all the Pelletier's fault. If they what? Agree with the unlawful taking of their daughter? Agree with all the injustice that has taken place? It was many months before he spoke publicly because he was trusting the court system. They believed the Judge would do the right thing. After so long, it is understandable that they are angry. It would not be a normal human response to not be angry. I still support the family, and want Justina to be sent home to her loving family.

If something unlawful happened it seems to me that a lawsuit would be a better remedy than ranting.
 
I think people are not realizing the important facts here. The devil is in the details. Justina has not been afforded the same rights as any other patient in Bader 5, or at Wayside. She has had none of the civil rights we all have. She has had less rights than convicted incarcerated felons. That is the outrage here. Not so much that she was taken from her parents, but I believe the reason she was taken was wrong, but that she hasn't been treated fairly. The poor girl has done nothing wrong yet she is punished by the system that is supposed to protect children.

Is it at all possible that your outrage is misplaced or based on misinformation? As far as I know, felons lose their right to vote and jury duty. Rights that Justina doesn't now have because of her age. I'm confused about what "rights" you insist are being violated.
 
The parents did not take Justina to Boston's for a diagnosis or second opinion. They took her there for her to be examined by HER Gastroenterologist who had moved from Tufts to Boston's. He did go to see her within days of her being admitted to Boston's but was rudely escorted out of the room and was forbidden from examining her. Unbelievable, but true. To me it is obvious the doctors who more or less hijacked her care had an agenda.

This is the first I've seen this claim. Could you please provide a link? Thanks.
 
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