Family Press Conferences

[stmarysmead]

"Look at every scenario that has him alive still today. Look at those scenarios and have your child witness another child have to go through that right in front of their face. It's horrific. I don't care how you describe it. So yeah, I think he's alive. I think it was an awful day. I sure hope that K**** didn't witness what happened that day, but I'm pretty confident she was there based on what we know. And that's a horrific thing for a child to have to witness."

If LE is prepping the parents by releasing those emails to them, to gear them up for the realization that Kyron is dead, what on earth could Kaine mean by this statement?

I admit to being about as confused as a person can get. But I've read this over and over in the past few hours and .... well.

BBM...there are a number of horrifying scenarios that would leave Kyron alive and yet have produced a terrifying scene for Baby K. It will take speculation to answer the question of confusion that anchors this thread. It is hard to even type these thoughts out...or let our minds consider them.


Knowing Kyron was terrified of losing his glasses...Terri may have forced him out of the car in the wilderness of Sauvie..., taken his glasses, and listened to him beg....while she waited for the pick-up. He might have stumbled about, crying screaming...banging into the car...while drunken Terri taunted him..and Baby K screamed in helplessness. A scenario like THAT...or any variation...is horrifying...when you think of the FEAR. Then a near blind child...scared out of his mind...scooped up and thrown in a second car with strangers. Maybe a little slapping around...a beating.

Yes, these are awful thoughts...but they answer the question of this thread and they center us on what is IMPORTANT in this case.

Imagine AGAIN the effect on Baby K. Terror is something even a Baby can feel by osmosis...and seeing her Mother...that SHE must also depend upon...purposely terrify her brother could put Baby K in a state of perpetual fear of her Mother's rage.

Or imagine if Terri, who brags about her ability to subdue a grown man...struggled with a screaming terrified Kyron...or even indulging her hatred in torturing the child before she "handed him over." THAT is indeed a "horrific thing" for a child to watch, isn't it? But it leaves Kyron , in Kaine's hopeful paternal mind...possibly still alive.

If we imagine, as adults, how that horror would effect us if we were strapped in seats, forced to watch, unable to help...we can understand what Baby K may have endured...and what may keep Kaine up at night...and Desiree sickened.

This is why Kaine will use anything to fight for his surviving child! The thoughts of what his little boy endured at Terri's hands!

No matter how uncomfortable the horror of what Kyron might have faced is to our sensibilities...it is so much more important than trivia over who is mad at whom....or the divorce case drivel distractions. We must try to "feel" what the parents are feeling...what LE is feeling...as they discover more and more about the dark heart of Terri Horman.

This is the essence of what this case is about. THIS is the true evil that engulfed a helpless child. I think if we are going to discuss this case..we have to try to feel what little Kyron felt...going home every day, walking on eggshells, feeling hated and unable to make Terri love him. No darling smile of his , no hug, nothing ...was in little Kyron's power to change his Stepmother's hate. I wonder if J was sent away because he LOVED Kyron...and maybe tried to defend him.

It is essential that the enormity of the horror inflicted by Terri on this child is not to be glossed over....or obscured by Facebook photos...or gripe-ing at a grieving father.We should discuss the possibilities every day to get the true essence of this woman and her hatred for a 7 year old who called her "Mom." We need to "sicken" ourselves with possibilities...as I hope the State will do in the criminal case. Make the jury FEEL that little boy's helplessness and terror...as the StepMother he loves becomes The Vampire.

Whether Desiree is mad at Kaine is the Soap Opera stuff...what Kyron endured in front of Baby K...at the hands of a woman whose hate was so intense she had to vent it to others...THAT is THIS CASE!

It's not easy to speak of the "possibilities" of what happened...but , then, I think how the parents must be tormented daily by such thoughts. Perhaps OUR compassion for them might be heightened by feeling the revulsion and horror just for one quick minute.

 

[Skully]

I hope they're not thinking that Kyron could possibly have been given to some pedophile based on any internet texts or chats. Kyron being handed off to some stranger would be terrifying for him and for the baby to see him afraid. Kaine mentions scenarios that have Kyron alive, and that's the worst scenario I can think of that has him alive. I thought Kaine said something similar last week about Terri may have caused "some unspeakable horror".

I think this is exactly what they are thinking. I saw the Dateline show and looking at the map and the time line, I still can't see how she did this without help. I think Kyron was handed off at the school and the all the rest was to get an alibi of her being out with baby K and Kryon being at school. The 1.5 hours lapse in time to the gym could have been her meeting up with somebody at SI to collect money or some other detail we are not thinking about. Maybe I am just hoping he is alive, but I can't see how this went down. I guess I need to be in the theory thread with this.

 

[lynmaree]

Great topic, debs. Thanks for creating the thread so we can discuss it.

I've been thinking about this all day (along with so many other things from both of the interviews this mornings!), and was confounded by this one, until I put it in a context of what happens when the baby is older and finds out what happened, if indeed Terri handed off Kyron.

Let's take a best case scenario in this horrible event - that, for example, Terri told Kyron he'd be going off with someone he knows, and trusts, and likes, for a special treat - an ice cream or a visit to something he likes, such as the pumpkin patch. They pull up to a meeting point, and Kyron goes off, smiling, calm, happy, maybe even excited. And that's what the baby sees.

The immediate effect on the baby would be non-traumatic - nothing at all horrific about it. *But* when we put it in the context of the future, when the baby is older, and finds out that she was right there as her brother went skipping off happily - to his doom - completely innocent and defenseless - completely betrayed - well, then even this 'best case' scenario becomes, indeed, horrific. The baby as an older child or adult - and probably for the rest of her life - would likely feel that what she'd gone through as a baby was indeed horrific. I would not mind opining that it could be so traumatic as to require years of therapy to learn to cope with it.

So... I think it's likely that Kaine has thought this through, and looked at all the possibilities, and this may well be among the scenarios and thoughts he had in mind, although he didn't elaborate.

Agree 100%...and couple this scenario with the fact that in the future, the emails spoken of will have certainly been made public and this poor Baby K will have to live with the fact that her own mother wrote "terrible, hateful" emails about her brother prior to handing him off or worse.....also, keep in mind she was 19 months old on that fateful day....she knows who she loves and knows enough to notice an absence of someone she loves each day....no matter how you disect it...her life changed that day too and the effects will be suffered for as long as she lives...If Terry is indeed guilty (and IMO she is) she also needs to live with the fact that she has caused immeasurable suffering to her own biological child in addition to Kyron....I think she should be thinking about a plea deal at this point and just come clean....if not for herself or Kaine and Desiree or even Kyron ...then do it for her daughter that by all accounts was the "center of her universe"....

 

[TxLady2]

Great topic, debs. Thanks for creating the thread so we can discuss it.

I've been thinking about this all day (along with so many other things from both of the interviews this mornings!), and was confounded by this one, until I put it in a context of what happens when the baby is older and finds out what happened, if indeed Terri handed off Kyron.

Let's take a best case scenario in this horrible event - that, for example, Terri told Kyron he'd be going off with someone he knows, and trusts, and likes, for a special treat - an ice cream or a visit to something he likes, such as the pumpkin patch. They pull up to a meeting point, and Kyron goes off, smiling, calm, happy, maybe even excited. And that's what the baby sees.

The immediate effect on the baby would be non-traumatic - nothing at all horrific about it. *But* when we put it in the context of the future, when the baby is older, and finds out that she was right there as her brother went skipping off happily - to his doom - completely innocent and defenseless - completely betrayed - well, then even this 'best case' scenario becomes, indeed, horrific. The baby as an older child or adult - and probably for the rest of her life - would likely feel that what she'd gone through as a baby was indeed horrific. I would not mind opining that it could be so traumatic as to require years of therapy to learn to cope with it.

So... I think it's likely that Kaine has thought this through, and looked at all the possibilities, and this may well be among the scenarios and thoughts he had in mind, although he didn't elaborate.

Good points, but I don't feel that he was talking about what the baby might come to think in the future, but what she might have witnessed at that moment. Just my interpretation.

I don't personally believe that a child that young would have any conscious memory of her brother being taken by someone and not seeing him again, UNLESS he was carried off kicking and screaming or he was crying from intense pain. It would have to be pretty traumatic for that memory to be imbedded in such an undeveloped little mind.

 

[Emma Peel]

It's a head scratcher, debs.

Myself - I wondered if there's just a lot he knows (from LE) that leads them to think there are others involved - that Terri handed Kyron off and he was spirited away, never to be seen again...

If it's the Mark Klass playbook of "never saying you don't believe" ...
Well, I didn't read that playbook, didn't know that. Wow - that is interesting to learn too. That makes those sorts of statements from Desiree & Kaine far less "mysterious".

Whenever they express real hope, I think it's based on some real LE evidence, and so now ... well, that makes me ... extra sad.

Kaine talked so fast yesterday at the PC. No hesitation. You can tell all he does is think about Kyron - just like he said.

 

[kathryann]

So now we are going to pick apart every single sentence or word that the man says?

Seems like everyone has picked apart what the biological mother has said today...not step mom...but Kyron's Mother...so there you have it!

I agree, neither of the biological parents were with Kyron the last day he was seen, his Step-Mom was. I don't care how hard Terri thought her life was, or what Kaine did or didn't do, there is no excuse for harming a child or giving a child away, if she did. Maybe Kaine made mistakes, we all do, he never imagined that this would or could happen. Let's cut him a break, he looks terrible and is suffering for his choices.

 

[sarah7855]

I agree, neither of the biological parents were with Kyron the last day he was seen, his Step-Mom was. I don't care how hard Terri thought her life was, or what Kaine did or didn't do, there is no excuse for harming a child or giving a child away, if she did. Maybe Kaine made mistakes, we all do, he never imagined that this would or could happen. Let's cut him a break, he looks terrible and is suffering for his choices.

Amen. The simple truth is that he is a victim here, too. It is one thing to have doubts about Terri's guilt, but it is entirely another to constantly pick, pick, pick at Kaine and/or Desiree...about everything. Kyron would be here and none of us would even know who Kyron Horman was if it weren't for someone causing his disappearance in the first place.

 

[Melanie]

I was confused by the wording as well. In my mind I always thought his scenario was that Kyron was passed off to someone. That wouldn't be horrific to a toddler. Something horrific would be seeing him suffer - KWIM? I do think Kaine is doing a good job in keeping his sons name in the headlines. As someone said, if he were to admit defeat, most would throw up their hands and go away. There's still no DNA proof that Kyron is dead (no body, no blood in the truck, house, etc). I can honestly say I don't know what happened to this little boy.

This is one case where I really have no theories, but would love for it to have a happy ending.

Keep the faith Kaine and Desiree!

Mel

 

[TxLady2]

I don't see it as "picking apart" anything, I see it as asking for clarification when the meaning is not clear or seems to contradict some earlier statements. But that's just me.

What I do see is that this board is becoming one-sided and that disturbs me. I don't think we should have to apologize for having a different opinion, or for not being 100% convinced of anyone's guilt. I may think Terri is guilty as sin, but that doesn't mean I have to think Kaine is a saint, and every word that comes out of his mouth is gospel. He's a human being and not perfect. So why would questioning what his meaning is, be picking it apart? I don't get it!
JMHO

 

[grandmaj]

Knock it off. We are not talking about each other's opinion. Stick to the facts.

Again........talk about the topic and not each other's opinion!

Posts land at random.

 

[ami]

I was confused by the wording as well. In my mind I always thought his scenario was that Kyron was passed off to someone. That wouldn't be horrific to a toddler. Something horrific would be seeing him suffer - KWIM? I do think Kaine is doing a good job in keeping his sons name in the headlines. As someone said, if he were to admit defeat, most would throw up their hands and go away. There's still no DNA proof that Kyron is dead (no body, no blood in the truck, house, etc). I can honestly say I don't know what happened to this little boy.

This is one case where I really have no theories, but would love for it to have a happy ending.

Keep the faith Kaine and Desiree!

Mel

It depends upon how you envision the passing off portion of a human abduction. Frankly, he might not have been awake or conscious. He might have been being carried like a sack of potatoes over someone's shoulder. If he was being "sold" as it were, why would the sort of person who would traffic in humans have been gentle with him, or considerate of baby K's sensibilities? He might have been drugged, yes, or hit over the head, or taken away kicking and screaming or bound and gagged.


Also, even if she weren't in the car and didn't see a thing, or even if she has no direct memory of that day at all there are any number of things that could be lodged in baby K's mind that aren't even specific to the abduction, but relate to Kyron being gone. When I was 3 I had a cousin who lived with us for a full year when his mother was unable to care for him. Eventually his mother recovered and he moved back to his home. When I was 7, that same cousin died of meningitis. I didn't understand about "dead" and in trying to understand why and how he died I kept asking my mom if it was because he burned himself on the stove (which he did while he lived with us, several years before his death) or if it was because of that time he threw up (stomach flu, also several years before he died). I developed a phobia of throwing up, thinking if I threw up I would die in a few years. Kids can be like that. They try to fill in the blanks in their immature way and it can be very scary and damaging if it's something traumatic, even if they weren't present for the trauma.

She lost her mother and brother in the same month, so IMO baby K is going to have a lot to deal with later, as she tries to work through her thoughts about her family and what that means to her as a person. Add the possibility that she was right there in the truck -- even seeing Kyron led away by a stranger could be traumatic, especially when she gets older and tries to work out what happened to her brother.

 

[Melanie]

It depends upon how you envision the passing off portion of a human abduction. Frankly, he might not have been awake or conscious. He might have been being carried like a sack of potatoes over someone's shoulder. If he was being "sold" as it were, why would the sort of person who would traffic in humans have been gentle with him, or considerate of baby K's sensibilities? He might have been drugged, yes, or hit over the head, or taken away kicking and screaming or bound and gagged.


Also, even if she weren't in the car and didn't see a thing, or even if she has no direct memory of that day at all there are any number of things that could be lodged in baby K's mind that aren't even specific to the abduction, but relate to Kyron being gone. When I was 3 I had a cousin who lived with us for a full year when his mother was unable to care for him. Eventually his mother recovered and he moved back to his home. When I was 7, that same cousin died of meningitis. I didn't understand about "dead" and in trying to understand why and how he died I kept asking my mom if it was because he burned himself on the stove (which he did while he lived with us, several years before his death) or if it was because of that time he threw up (stomach flu, also several years before he died). I developed a phobia of throwing up, thinking if I threw up I would die in a few years. Kids can be like that. They try to fill in the blanks in their immature way and it can be very scary and damaging if it's something traumatic, even if they weren't present for the trauma.

She lost her mother and brother in the same month, so IMO baby K is going to have a lot to deal with later, as she tries to work through her thoughts about her family and what that means to her as a person. Add the possibility that she was right there in the truck -- even seeing Kyron led away by a stranger could be traumatic, especially when she gets older and tries to work out what happened to her brother.

You're very right - thank you. I didn't mean to sound so blase' about it -- just my mind thinking the best case scenario. Also praying that baby K didn't see anything horrific, and hoping she was sleeping during the time "whatever happened - happened.

No doubt we may see her 15 years from now talking about Kyron and what became of him, or better yet that he had been found, and what kind of toll that took on her.

Not sure how old baby K is, but when she gets to the talking stage, I wonder if she'll be able to express anything about what happened to Kryon. Unlikely, I know, but one can hope.

Best,

Mel

 

[Snowden]

Because Kyron hasn't been found, Kaine and Desiree have to hold on to some hope that he is out there still alive. Kaine's other statement about Terri's alcoholism just being the tip of the iceberg and having a separate life combined with her severe hatred for Kyron doesn't look good at all for this child. She either murdered him, had him murdered or sold him off to endure some unspeakable horror. I don't believe Terri will ever talk. The only way for the truth to ever come out will from the accomplice(s) or LE finding Kyron. This child has to be found. We need to get out more flyers in our communities and let others know about Kyron. Put a flyer in the window of your vehicles too. The more folks who know about him will improve his chances of coming home.

 

[Beatrice]

If Portland LE, Desiree & Kaine believe Kyron is still alive...I believe them.

By now, they must know all about "secretive" Terri.
Her addictions, motives, etc....Motive=Ransom money.
Unfortunately, she was booted from the house & her computer.

Terri is a self-described "hoarder"
She and an ex husband owned a storage facility business at one time.
IMO she must have had a storage unit near her gym on Waterhouse Ave.
Work out, child care for K, shop, drink, hoard purchases, etc....SECRETS.

IMO her "sex texting" with MC shows her "experience" with this form of making money. Funny, how someone she knows well is involved in the "sex industry"

Her love is only of herself...Not Kaine, son, Kyron or daughter. She was looking to somehow move on with MC.....With money in hand.

 

[grandmaj]

If Portland LE, Desiree & Kaine believe Kyron is still alive...I believe them.

By now, they must know all about "secretive" Terri.
Her addictions, motives, etc....Motive=Ransom money.
Unfortunately, she was booted from the house & her computer.

Terri is a self-described "hoarder"
She and an ex husband owned a storage facility business at one time.
IMO she must have had a storage unit near her gym on Waterhouse Ave.
Work out, child care for K, shop, drink, hoard purchases, etc....SECRETS.

IMO her "sex texting" with MC shows her "experience" with this form of making money. Funny, how someone she knows well is involved in the "sex industry"Her love is only of herself...Not Kaine, son, Kyron or daughter. She was looking to somehow move on with MC.....With money in hand.

Please provide links to the above bolded parts. I haven't seen any of this in MSM.

 

[Beatrice]

The couple moved to Albany and ran a storage facility for a while before buying into a Chubby's restaurant franchise with money from Horman's parents.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

 

[citigirl]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

Who is the person she knows well who works in the sex industry?

And I missed where she described herself as a hoarder...was that a Facebook comment?

 

[Beatrice]

In Terri's photos...She says little K is just like her mother...a hoarder.

 

[Sherazhad]

I think that as any innocent parent would do with a missing child, Kaine is racking his brains trying to work out what happened, playing out scenarios in his head. I feel that Kaine will never give up hope, but deep within believes Kyron has passed. Knowing that baby K was there that day he thinks she must have witnessed what happened to kyron. Kaine looks awful, Terri truly inflicted a grave punishment as I believe she intended.

 

[Cazzie]

I think that as any innocent parent would do with a missing child, Kaine is racking his brains trying to work out what happened, playing out scenarios in his head. I feel that Kaine will never give up hope, but deep within believes Kyron has passed. Knowing that baby K was there that day he thinks she must have witnessed what happened to kyron. Kaine looks awful, Terri truly inflicted a grave punishment as I believe she intended.

I've been wondering what baby K witnessed (or overheard), too.

Has there ever been cases (even non-criminal situations) where a psychologist/psychiatrist can get valid info from a 2 year-old? How about when the child gets older...can they do regression work and get valid info? I know anything can be tried...but I'm looking for the possibly of valid info.

I'm guessing that if baby K experienced anything to do with Kyron's disappearance, at some point in time she might have dreams or memory recall. I just don't know developed a 2 year-old's memory functions are.

Scenario: at age 6, Kaine might take baby K somewhere that he thinks she's never been before. Baby K might recognize it and say that she's been there, and it might spark a memory from when she was 2, and that memory might help locate Kyron.