family sources say there is a four hour window for abduction

[SyraKelly]

I don't think her clothing was found, necessarily. A multi colored disney character shirt doesn't sound like a purple and white shirt with kittens on it necessarily.

And it doesn't have to be that someone watched them the whole time. Someone could have crept on up at about 1 or so, never having seen them on the porch at all.

but I thought the 12.15 witness said she was naked and 1 what?
If you are saying 1 am..then the 12.15 witnesses can not be true!

 

[cowtowner]

Yes but she was not getting rid of a body when she had her brother drive her to the store.



I would just like to know what stopped Deb from taking the family car and getting rid of a body?

How do you know the white Lincoln is the family car?

 

[mck16]

How do you know the white Lincoln is the family car?

There were reports that a few weeks earlier JI's car was broken into. I don't think they said his truck. But, I may be wrong. Anyone know for sure what kind of vehicle was broken into? tia

 

[Abby Normal]

I think 11:45-12:00(ish) as kidnapping time makes sense if we are to believe a potential "he" was spotted on Chelsea at 12:15. I mean if you just took a child, you're going to be heading somewhere. Not pacing the street or sitting in the living room.

I'm just going to state that I feel some amount of confidence in Lisa P the witness and virtually no confidence in the account of the Motorcycle Man. I think he saw something odd, that he dwelt on, and as he contemplated the memory (innocently) in relation to the reports of a kidnapping it evolved into something different. I could be wrong, but that is my own inclination after observing both eye witness accounts. Lisa P seems less open to suggestion on the memory IMO, and less decided on what it meant- which is telling to me.

My gut feeling is obviously irrelevant, but IMO the window of opportune time opening up aligns quite well with the sighting that I believe to have some merit.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

We know for a fact she had her brother take her to the store, we know for a fact she has no license. We DO NOT KNOW FOR A FACT that this white can runs, is licensed, and is theirs.

It's a much more logical conclusion - based on the KNOWN FACTS and events of the night - that db did not drive or have a car she could drive that night.

I have to disagree with you, without knowing the status of the family car or the owner of that car in the driveway you can not logically conclude Deb did not drive anywhere that night.

Logic would tell you that you need more information to come to that conclusion.

Now the only person I have heard on MSM say Deb getting rid of a body was impossible because she did not drive was Bill Stanton and I have caught him in several lies.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

How do you know the white Lincoln is the family car?

I never said the white Lincoln is the family car, but I believe they have a family car. How did they get around as a family?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I think 11:45-12:00(ish) as kidnapping time makes sense if we are to believe a potential "he" was spotted on Chelsea at 12:15. I mean if you just took a child, you're going to be heading somewhere. Not pacing the street or sitting in the living room.

I'm just going to state that I feel some amount of confidence in Lisa P the witness and virtually no confidence in the account of the Motorcycle Man. I think he saw something odd, that he dwelt on, and as he contemplated the memory (innocently) in relation to the reports of a kidnapping it evolved into something different. I could be wrong, but that is my own inclination after observing both eye witness accounts. Lisa P seems less open to suggestion on the memory IMO, and less decided on what it meant- which is telling to me.

My gut feeling is obviously irrelevant, but IMO the window of opportune time opening up aligns quite well with the sighting that I believe to have some merit.

But then, what does this kidnapper do...wait in the bushes until SB goes inside at 11:30? There's only a minute window of opportunity in this scenario. 30-40 minutes to creep through an open window in the front of the house, flip on lights, steal cell phones, snatch a baby (which I guess never cries), undress the baby (diaper only, right?), exit through the front door, walk down N Lister and end up over on N Chelsea in order to be seen by the couple at 12:15. :waitasec:

And that scenario doesn't even attempt to explain why a cadaver dog might get a positive hit in the parents bedroom.

 

[annalia]

We know for a fact she had her brother take her to the store, we know for a fact she has no license. We DO NOT KNOW FOR A FACT that this white can runs, is licensed, and is theirs.

It's a much more logical conclusion - based on the KNOWN FACTS and events of the night - that db did not drive or have a car she could drive that night.

My boldig

What known facts would that be? Isn't it a known fact that JI drove a work vehicle?
If that's true then a logical conclusion could be that they had more than just a work vehicle. Another logical conclusion could be that if he drove the work vehicle then their other vehicle would be at the house.

JMHO

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Thank you MK-I really thought I was going to have to drink some boxed wine in order to understand what the heck happened that night...:floorlaugh:

Well, let's not rule the box wine out just yet, Syra.

 

[Tuffy]

Are you questions the semantics of the article/author or JI?

Did the use of the word "dashed" not set off a semantic alarm for you? How many people do you know who use the word "dashed?" JI doesn't strike me as particularly British - not much of a "so I dashed..." kind of guy.

Odd that you jump on the semantics of use of the word "rushed" and "demanding" but not the fairly uncommon word "dashed."


Maybe it's worth noting that what you're quoting is a press account of his story where a writer or editor chose to use the words "rush," "dash," and "demand" (among others) and they were not all his own words.

Again, we may be wise to be very skeptical about reading a press account and assuming the words used were the actual words of the person they're writing about. If I don't see quote marks around it, then there is no guarantee the person actually used those words.

I'm originally from Missouri and dashed doesn't sound odd to me. Seems common actually. Maybe it's a Midwest thing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[linda505]

Don't know if this has been posted - but neighbor says "he" passed a polygraph - sorry if this is in the wrong place

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15953146/neighbor-says

 

[Mels3kidz]

I'm right there with you! When I saw the photo of the beautiful deck in the back with woods all around, I felt it was extremely weird that they would be sitting on the front porch. There was a reason they did that.

I dunno. I have a beautiful deck in my backyard as well but when my neighbor walks over we're more likely to sit on the front porch swing.

Everything is subjective. People just expect others to act and do things the same way they would themselves if presented with the same choices. Personally I see nothing strange or forboding about DB and her neighbor sitting on the front stoop/porch.

Mel

 

[cowtowner]

I'm originally from Missouri and dashed doesn't sound odd to me. Seems common actually. Maybe it's a Midwest thing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I LIVE in Kansas City, have lived here for 41 years, and I can't recall a time I've heard anyone here use the word "dashed" unless it's at the end of "dined-and-..."

The point is that semantics are incredibly subjective. To infer any degree of voracity or to impugn anyone's credibility because of the semantics used in a press account that may or may not be direct quotes is dubious. We're only a short step from calling someone a liar because the editor chose the word "shuffled" rather than "went"?

 

[Leila]

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15940122/source-says-4-hour-window-for-abduction

discuss here

I'm just at the beginning of this thread. This is the most detailed time line released so far, and I'm noticing some llittle differences.

Whereas we were led to believe that DB's brother, Phil, had stayed at the home that night and was sleeping there, it appears that he left after accompanying DB home from the grocery store.

The nieghbor who sat and drank with DB until 10:30pm, says she stayed outside talking to another neighbor until 11:30pm and when she went inside she notice the lights out at the Irwin home, so that conforms with DB's statement that she went to bed at about 10:30pm.

One thing that I'm noticing with all these media reports is that there's no consistency. I think we're seeing a lot of media mis-reporting. I wish LE would have press conferences and release info, so there's some consistency in the facts of this case.

 

[Sparklin]

Don't know if this has been posted - but neighbor says "he" passed a polygraph - sorry if this is in the wrong place

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15953146/neighbor-says

I saw that but I just find it very odd that MT 'supposedly' picked him out of a photo line up of 6 people if that is accurate. Were all 6 photos people in that neighbourhood?? Just gets weirder.

 

[neese]

neese;

Thank you for sharing about your friend. I hope you are okay about it all, and, I really hope your friend gets some help. :heart:

Thank you. I'm okay now that the kids have been removed. She can't even stay sober to have the supervised visits with them that they allow her. She has had several interventions, been in treatment several times and a dr. told her she won't live another year drinking like this and it still doesn't stop her. Her problems are pretty deep. I wish her the best, but I can't have that in my life any longer.

 

[neese]

Wow what an experience. Did you ever see her mistreat her children or do anything out of the ordinary toward them. You said she would jump up and take her kids to school even though it was the wrong time, she still knew what she needed to do if it had been the right time. I have heard of people doing normal things in their blackouts. Sounds like you have first hand knowledge. ty

The main thing she did to her kids was curse them a lot and not have a clue what she was saying, and the rest, I considered pure neglect. Not feeding them, not bathing them, not washing their clothes, just simply not taking care of them was what i considered abuse. I felt so sorry for them. Now that their grandparents have custody, the kids are doing well in school, they have nice clean clothes, meals like they should and activities. So it's for the best for sure.

 

[cowtowner]

My boldig

What known facts would that be? Isn't it a known fact that JI drove a work vehicle?
If that's true then a logical conclusion could be that they had more than just a work vehicle. Another logical conclusion could be that if he drove the work vehicle then their other vehicle would be at the house.

JMHO

Please read the posts in this thread and the accounts of the media:

#1 That her brother drove to the store is a known fact based on it being corroborated by multiple sources. Surly we can let the bar be set that low - corroborated facts can be relied upon.

#2 That DB has no Driver's License is a known fact based on the fact that it is a matter of record with the state. Surely we can agree that something verifiable by state legal authority is reliable as fact.


#3 That JI has a van he drives to the jobsite is a known fact because it can be corroborated by boss/coworker/etc.. See also #1, surely a fact is corroborated by multiple sources is reliable for us here.

Those are known facts about the transportation available and her means to use it.

We do NOT know the story with the white Lincoln. There is NO KNOWN FACT they have a car other than the van. That is an assumption drawn from the fact that he was driving a work van. I find that assumption dubious; just because one takes a truck to work does not mean there is another, working, licensed vehicle in the home.

It is not known for a fact that the white Lincoln is theirs, is running, or is tagged and legal.

It is not a known fact that DB could drive.

 

[Donjeta]

JMO but if one was inclined to dispose of a body one might not have any scruples doing it in an untagged and illegal car without a licence or even someone else's car.

 

[curvecuti]

I find it hard to believe the work provided truck was family's only mode of transportation. My husband used to drive a work van, it was for work. We didn't take it to the grocery store, Dr. appts, wine store, etc. There are 5 people in that family and no other vehicle besides a work truck? Nope, not buying that.