Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #2

[meme4]

:blushing:s

http://lifeandhope.com/

Chris Dolan's statement on home page of the Terri Schiavo's website.

This is so absurd, they continue to mislead the public, this place is not ready for patients yet they are. blaming the hospital.....I think that what happens from here on in, they will continue to blame the hospital.....They want this child keep on a machine till she is fixed.......I agree the mom has painted herself into a corner and doesnt want to back down, I think the media being involved hasnt helped ....

 

[Minette]

1. Hospitals are REQUIRED to ask next of kin about organ donation, if there are no specific contraindications such as death from infection or cancer.

2. There is NO compensation to the hospital for organ donation, or for the procedure. All costs are borne by the tissue harvesting organization.

3. There are NO "big bucks" for organ donation.

4. Neither the hospital or the tissue harvesting company would ever proceed with organ donation if the next of kin did not want it.

5. Perhaps you are in India or someplace else where "rogue hospitals" exist, but it sure doesn't happen in the United States.

Please educate yourself and use facts, not rumor.

Please read my post again, Herat. I am agreeing with you and stating that fear-mongering (about rogue hospitals killing off people to make $$$ on organs) has no place in this discussion. Pax.

 

[MyBelle]

There is no reimbursement whatsoever to the hospital for any part of organ donation. Nothing. The surgery is not billable.

<modsnip>

<modsnip>

http://www.womenshealth.gov/publications/our-publications/fact-sheet/organ-donation.html#g

Who pays for the cost of organ donation?

The transplant recipient's health insurance policy, Medicare, or Medicaid usually covers the cost of a transplant. The donor's family neither pays for, nor receives payment for, organ and tissue donation.

 

[shana]

For those interested:

Cristina Rendon &#8207;@Cristina_Rendon 9m
Part of statement released by Christopher Dolan, family attorney of #JahiMcMath @KTVU pic.twitter.com/hrCJD6cqxf
Retweeted by KTVU

 

[SophieRose]

1. IMO, The hospital knows what really happened...... and I highly doubt it went down like the family said it went down.


2. A huge lawsuit & millions of dollars.

If it goes to court, a jury can reward them millions, but by a 1975 California law, pain and suffering will be reduced to $250,000. Since she is a teen, there are no future wages (economic costs) and since her body will likely die, there will be no future medical costs to be won. So $250k max for her death under medical malpractice.

Stories on the $250k cap
http://www.38istoolate.com/stories/

 

[jaxibear]

RSBM: The family started suctioning blood themselves; Jahi's grandmother, Sandra Chatman, is a nurse at another hospital.

“A 13-year-old should not have to suction herself,” Sealey said. “She had to use a suction machine to suction her own blood. Her mother and stepfather had to suction out her blood at points. None of them work for this hospital.”

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Oakland-8th-Grader-Brain-Dead-After-236015681.html

I think this is a very good reason not to immediately blame the hospital.

Sadly for this child, it sounds like there were many things that went wrong.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The topic of determining "Brain death" and organ donor donation are closely tied together in much of the literature I've been reading.

It's the topic of $$$$ that I find most distasteful when discussing ethics.

 

[Herding Cats]

BBM. Link please. Various media have consistently reported the grandmother is a registered nurse, many have also added she has worked for years at Kaiser and in the surgery department and so far, Kaiser has not disputed it.

Jahi's grandmother, Sandra Chatman, who is a registered nurse, said last week. "I know Jahi suffered, and it tears me up."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jahi-mcmaths-family-faces-monday-life-support-deadline/

I ran a search for her name in the registered nurse's data base for the state of California, and there is no name ("Sandra Chatman") found.

Here is the webdise so you can check things yourself:
https://www.breeze.ca.gov/datamart/loginCADCA.do;jsessionid=4427BF3F9775DE91F3F749A0D7461F02.vo9

Click "verify a license", click "individual", and put in Grandmother's name.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Calcifer]

We have no reason to believe that the hospital did anything wrong in the aftermath of Jahi's surgery. All we have are statements from a family who:

-Have an ax to grind against the hospital

-Have a history of lying to get public support ("Perfectly healthy thirteen year old", "Routine tonsillectomy", "We have a facility to take Jahi")

-Have a tenuous grasp of reality (The mother's frequently voiced belief that Jahi is going to recover from being dead.)

-Have demonstrated their willingness to disrupt the hospital's ability to care for other patients by encouraging harassing phone calls to doctors and demonstrations on hospital grounds

-Have refused to let the hospital share their side of the story

Personally, I don't believe a word these people say. Maybe they believe it, maybe they're being coached to say this stuff. We won't know anything definite until the court case that is certain to be coming.

 

[Linda7NJ]

If it goes to court, a jury can reward them millions, but by a 1975 California law, pain and suffering will be reduced to $250,000. Since she is a teen, there are no future wages (economic costs) and since her body will likely die, there will be no future medical costs to be won. So $250k max for her death under medical malpractice.

Stories on the $250k cap
http://www.38istoolate.com/stories/

Thus a motive for the hospital wanting her declared brain dead. IMO.

 

[MyBelle]

I have not seen anything regarding that they needed to be independent. All that is stated is that the two exams must be at least 12 hours apart and done by different physicians.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21849823/

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/748870

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2011/08/24/peds.2011-1511.full.pdf

So I'm not sure how they didn't follow the proper procedures. Doctors both in the hospital AND Independent of the hospital have come to the same conclusion.

It was in the court filing linked up thread as to the Judge's decision that standards were not followed. My concern is that standards were not followed and no explanation has been given by the hospital as to why.

 

[Herat]

It's almost laughable for you to try to claim any hospital would perform the harvest of organs for "free."

http://www.womenshealth.gov/publications/our-publications/fact-sheet/organ-donation.html#g

Who pays for the cost of organ donation?

The transplant recipient's health insurance policy, Medicare, or Medicaid usually covers the cost of a transplant. The donor's family neither pays for, nor receives payment for, organ and tissue donation.

The hospital with the donor does not get any compensation for the harvest of organs.

The "transplant recipient" is someone else at a later date and yes, they pay the tissue processing facility for the organ or part. The transplant recipient is not associated with the donor hospital. This happens every day in many hospitals all over the US, for orthopedic surgeries, for cardiac surgeries, for eye surgeries.

I don't understand your comment about "free". I stand by my statement that the hospital with the donor does not get compensated for the tissue donation.

 

[iluvmua]

Thus a motive for the hospital wanting her declared brain dead. IMO.

The reason the hospital declared her brain dead, is because Jahi, is in fact brain dead.

Unless every single person in that hospital on staff is in on some big conspiracy against Jahi's family.

 

[Linda7NJ]

We have no reason to believe that the hospital did anything wrong in the aftermath of Jahi's surgery. All we have are statements from a family who:

-Have an ax to grind against the hospital

-Have a history of lying to get public support ("Perfectly healthy thirteen year old", "Routine tonsillectomy", "We have a facility to take Jahi")

-Have a tenuous grasp of reality (The mother's frequently voiced belief that Jahi is going to recover from being dead.)

-Have demonstrated their willingness to disrupt the hospital's ability to care for other patients by encouraging harassing phone calls to doctors and demonstrations on hospital grounds

-Have refused to let the hospital share their side of the story

Personally, I don't believe a word these people say. Maybe they believe it, maybe they're being coached to say this stuff. We won't know anything definite until the court case that is certain to be coming.

IMO the family has done nothing but exercise their legal rights.
Everyone has an opinion.

"Healthy" could mean walking, talking, loving, one day and not the next.

The family has "faith" and the right to believe in miracles & prayers and divine intervention.

I need a link that this family has compromised the care of any other patient.

They have the legal right to not allow the hospital to share medical records.

You have every right to believe or not believe this family or their motives. That's your opinion. Everyone is entitled to one.

 

[Minette]

Unless Jahi's family CONSENTED to donating her organs, the hospital simply could not take them. Whether Jahi was declared brain dead or not, no one was going to be able to harvest any of her organs without her mother's explicit permission.

I hate that these misperceptions still persist in society. There are more people on the waiting lists for donated organs than will ever receive them, but neither CHO nor any other hospital is legally able to take someone's organs with their permission or the permission of their family in some cases, as when the potential donor is a minor child.

It is a magnanimous gift of life when organs are donated, but I would be shocked to my core to learn that this particular family would ever consider that course of action for one moment.

 

[iluvmua]

We have no reason to believe that the hospital did anything wrong in the aftermath of Jahi's surgery. All we have are statements from a family who:

-Have an ax to grind against the hospital

-Have a history of lying to get public support ("Perfectly healthy thirteen year old", "Routine tonsillectomy", "We have a facility to take Jahi")

-Have a tenuous grasp of reality (The mother's frequently voiced belief that Jahi is going to recover from being dead.)

-Have demonstrated their willingness to disrupt the hospital's ability to care for other patients by encouraging harassing phone calls to doctors and demonstrations on hospital grounds

-Have refused to let the hospital share their side of the story

Personally, I don't believe a word these people say. Maybe they believe it, maybe they're being coached to say this stuff. We won't know anything definite until the court case that is certain to be coming.

ALL this I 100 percent agree on.

 

[Herat]

Thus a motive for the hospital wanting her declared brain dead. IMO.

The hospital has no "will" or "motive" in this.

The medical findings of brain death were established by 6 medical specialists who have expertise in this field.

The hospital has to act on the medical facts stated by the physicians. The hospital cannot make a ruling on what the physicians should find.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The reason the hospital declared her brain dead, is because Jahi, is in fact brain dead.

Unless every single person in that hospital on staff is in on some big conspiracy against Jahi's family.

And she probably is brain dead. I'm not qualified to make that determination. Are you?

I linked articles that said if she were truly brain dead her heart would have failed by now, despite being on a ventilator.

 

[MyBelle]

The topic of determining "Brain death" and organ donor donation are closely tied together in much of the literature I've been reading.

It's the topic of $$$$ that I find most distasteful when discussing ethics.

I agree. Which is why, imo, the Hospital is desperate to prevent the transfer of Jahi. They want to keep her "dead." If she moves out of that hospital to another state, she is no longer "legally dead" if there is no death certificate.

It is in the hospital's financial interest to keep her "dead" because it will limit the malpractice payout.

No surprise the Hospital, reverses itself yet again, and is now refusing to allow any outside doctor to do the procedures. The hospital wants this child dead, dead, dead and it has everything to do with $$$$.

all, JMO

The refusal appeared to reverse the position articulated Monday by a hospital spokesman. He said the hospital would allow a doctor retained by the family to insert a feeding tube and to replace the oral ventilator keeping Jahi's heart beating with a tracheal tube - surgical procedures that would stabilize Jahi if she is moved to a facility willing to keep caring for her.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jahi-mc...-find-surgeons-to-operate-on-brain-dead-teen/

 

[MyBelle]

The hospital with the donor does not get any compensation for the harvest of organs.

The "transplant recipient" is someone else at a later date and yes, they pay the tissue processing facility for the organ or part. The transplant recipient is not associated with the donor hospital. This happens every day in many hospitals all over the US, for orthopedic surgeries, for cardiac surgeries, for eye surgeries.

I don't understand your comment about "free". I stand by my statement that the hospital with the donor does not get compensated for the tissue donation.

The hospital does receive payment for the surgery involved for the harvest of the organs.