Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #2

[Logger]

I have not seen or heard any discussion regarding appointing a Guardian Ad Litem for Jahi McMath as the mother seems not to be able to make decisions in the best interest of this child.

 

[Jayarre]

This was in his last filings for a TRO. He said he needed the information contained in the medical records to ask questions of the hospital/physicians.

IMO

I was accepted into a clinical trial out of state and they required all my medical records. It cost me per page for copying and by law (in this state) they had 2 weeks to do it.

 

[otto]

I have not seen or heard any discussion regarding appointing a Guardian Ad Litem for Jahi McMath as the mother seems not to be able to make decisions in the best interest of this child.

Can a guardian be appointed for a deceased person?

 

[kimlynn]

I was accepted into a clinical trial out of state and they required all my medical records. It cost me per page for copying and by law (in this state) they had 2 weeks to do it.

Yes by law family or next of kin should have no problem getting medical records.

 

[jjenny]

I'm not sure if there were six doctors total as the way I read it last night it said that Jahi was examined by Dr. Heidersbach and Dr. Shanahan and found to be brain dead. Dr. Williams (who didn't examine Jahi) agreed with the findings by both doctors. All three doctors are from CHO.
Both parties agreed to bring in other physicians and the 5 physicians chosen by the the parties declined to offer second opinions.
At this point we have examinations by two doctors from CHO.
They then decided to go with Dr Fisher outside of CHO. He agreed with the findings from the two other doctors.
So we have a total of three doctors that found brain death,two of the doctors are from CHO.
I think they are correct as I can't think of any reason they would lie about what they had found,but the way I read it,only three examinations by three doctors.
What I can't figure out is why the hospital is dragging its feet on giving the attorney for the family complete medical records.

Six total physicians declared her brain dead. Two CHO physicians, three physicans requested by the family, and one physician appointed by the court.

"Jahi's family has reached out to several facilities in the hope that they will accept the girl, but Sam Singer, who was retained by Children's Hospital Oakland to address the wrenching case of the teenager, deemed brain-dead by six physicians, said "this hospital has had no substantive conversations with any of them.""

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...ilator-20131231,0,5654464.story#ixzz2p4avsVx4

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...ilator-20131231,0,5654464.story#axzz2p4aTw5Q2

 

[K_Z]

Catching up on all the posts since yesterday.

Regarding the New Beginnings Community Center, Inc. in Medford, NY.

http://www.nbli.org

What it is:

A nonprofit started by a layperson as a gathering place to recruit multimodal OUTPATIENT therapies and services for patients with Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI). As I understand their goals, they wish to attract and recruit many different services and therapists who can help in a holistic lifestyle rehabilitation of people with TBI. This is a very noble goal, and a very worthwhile pursuit. They provide a physical bricks and mortar facility for therapists to rent space. They have a goal to provide a group living home for about 12 people, but they are a very long way from opening that building. I can't tell if they actually own any real property, or if they are leasing, or what-- maybe others can use different search methods.

http://riverheadnewsreview.timesrev...r-long-term-care-facility/#.UVGVjREltoQ.email

This is an article from Nov 2013:

http://riverhead.patch.com/groups/goodnews/p/brendan-house-takes-shape-on-sound-avenue


Here is their Charity Navigator information:

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.profile&ein=264394725#.UsMFlXkTuX0

They have around $342K in assets/ income for 2012, with Form 990 reporting of around $277K.

Here is their Guidestar info-- they have been incorporated as a NP for the tax years 2009-11. Their total income in 2011 (most recent tax year) was roughly $200K, with expenses of $189K.

http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/26-4394725/new-beginnings-community-center.aspx

What New Beginnings Community Center, Inc. is NOT:

-It is not any kind of licensed health care facility.
-It is not a hospital of any kind, acute or long term
-It is not a nursing home
-It is not an inpatient facility
-I cannot find any licenses of any kind online for any kind of residential services
-They do not appear to provide or coordinate any kind of home care with home care agencies
-They have no physicians or licensed health care professionals employed or providing care as "New Beginnings CCC".

It's very obvious to me why CHO described this organization's plan to accept Jahi's body as "faulty". It's a fledgling nonprofit with very noble goals, and will hopefully do a lot of good for a lot of people. But it is not any kind of care facility, licensed or otherwise. It's a nonprofit. It would be like attempting to transfer Jahi's body to the American Red Cross or the March of Dimes. ARC and MOD are not care facilities, though they work in the INTERESTS of health care. (I hope that makes sense.)

 

[Donjeta]

I have not seen or heard any discussion regarding appointing a Guardian Ad Litem for Jahi McMath as the mother seems not to be able to make decisions in the best interest of this child.

There would be a lot of court action and I expect Jahi's heart would have stopped long before they could read half the motions. MOO.

 

[krimekat]

The medical records is not complete. They cannot just give them a daily printout. That would be incomplete and would just give the attorney something to pick over daily.

It is a completely unrealistic request and the attorney knows it.

you are correct. the complete medical record will not be available until Jahi's discharged

this is standard protocol

 

[Logger]

Can a guardian be appointed for a deceased person?

I don't know. I hope some legal minds can chime in and let us know.

 

[Elley Mae]

4079 sound rd is the location of the new beginnings home. It looks like it is not renovated. I know that the map is dated a year ago but the web page for that site is saying that they are still needing money, 200,000.00 they are open to accepting donations for the renovations.

 

[krimekat]

Dolan said that they were giving him incomplete records and also giving him records on the day of court so he didn't have time to read or research the information given.
The mother also was put off when she asked for the medical records before she had an attorney.
This may be why we are going into another delay until Jan 7th.
I do understand that some of the info. wouldn't be complete on a day to day basis,but surely they could be more forthcoming with the records.
IMO

I work in this world

it's totally dependent on how many care providers see Jahi & how rapid they "make notes to the EHR", on how many EHR systems are used to manage Jahi's care, and on how long it takes to aggregate all the information together - definitely takes longer than one day to "record" one day of patient care

typically the full medical record starts at admission & ends at discharge

 

[kimlynn]

Six total physicians declared her brain dead. Two CHO physicians, three physicans requested by the family, and one physician appointed by the court.

"Jahi's family has reached out to several facilities in the hope that they will accept the girl, but Sam Singer, who was retained by Children's Hospital Oakland to address the wrenching case of the teenager, deemed brain-dead by six physicians, said "this hospital has had no substantive conversations with any of them.""

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...ilator-20131231,0,5654464.story#ixzz2p4avsVx4

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...ilator-20131231,0,5654464.story#axzz2p4aTw5Q2

Thank you for the information but I didn't read anything in the filing by family attorney Dolan regarding three other physicians requested by family that also had findings of brain death.
I did read that both parties picked 5 physicians and all 5 declined to give any opinion on the matter.
IMO

 

[BeginnersLuck]

The courts can certainly put a stop to this. But, what judge, wants to be the "bad" guy?

The attorney is being given a platform to blame the hospital and accuse them of being horrid, when what they are doing is abiding my laws and ethics. If they were so "horrid" as they are described, then why hasn't this been taken care of yet by someone else?

There are patients, families and staff at that hospital that don't deserve to be subjected to this circus. The media is sitting outside. There are strange people wandering around (as noted by the mother in MSM), their have been rallies on the hospital grounds,
the attorney stands outside accusing the hospital of things that are not true.

The hospital has to abide by rules, regulations and laws.

This whole mess is hurting everyone that works there and gets treatment there. The amount of lives that have been saved and successfully treated at this facility has to be enormous. People die from complications at every hospital. Unless they find some sort of enormous death rate as opposed to other hospitals in the US, they really need to stop the defamation.

 

[Softail]

This was in his last filings for a TRO. He said he needed the information contained in the medical records to ask questions of the hospital/physicians.

IMO

I still see this as two separate issues. Her medical records may have had to do with WHY she died. I don't see what that has to do with the situation now. :twocents:

I have not seen or heard any discussion regarding appointing a Guardian Ad Litem for Jahi McMath as the mother seems not to be able to make decisions in the best interest of this child.

I'll have to go back and look, but yesterday when reading the family's TRO request, I swear the MOTHER was referred to as the Guardian Ad Litem.. I'll go back and look, and post the link.

 

[atm9533]

Is there any way to find out what happens to the body once its brain dead. My husbands nephew was shot in the head and declared brain dead. It took my husbands sister two days to allow them to take him off life support. My husband said by that time his skin was turning and he was cold to the touch.

 

[Steft50]

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...ilator-20131231,0,5654464.story#axzz2p4WWB4vj



I bolded the above, because I share these same beliefs. I realize that some feel that the words by some from the hospital or their representatives have been harsh. I see it differently. The family has been provided grief counseling and pastoral care by the hospital. The hospital has tried to be sensitive with the family and it has been explained to them over and over again. It has been three weeks now. To word things any differently would be misleading to the public and a disservice to the family. The are being honest and blunt.

The family has plugged their ears and closed their eyes to reality. They have kept so busy that they haven't set down to process and think about the situation.

The hospital has been trying to tell them that no facility and no physician will treat her and the reasons why. Insurance coverage, or any form of payment is another issue that is a reality in the matter. Their are legal and ethical implications.

I stand first and foremost for Jahi the child, the patient, even though she is deceased. She deserves, even in her death to be treated in a ethical and dignified manner.

I do have empathy for the family and their loss. No one wants to let go, no matter what the circumstances surrounding the death are.

IMO, the courts cannot force the hospital, or any doctor to perform surgery on the body. The family has been told, they will allow the procedures to be performed if they can find their own doctors to do so. I would imagine, that they could also transport her to another hospital to do the procedures. Then again, they would need a hospital and physician willing to do this.

I have researched the stated facility that is in NY. This is an outpatient rehab facility. They are renovated a home for inpatient care, but it is not even near done. They are relying on the communities time to help build this facility and community donations. This is why it has taken so long and has yet to be completed. They do not have much funding, nor what is need to care for Jahi's body.

"FB rumour only warning", I see it is stated that they need a physician to write orders for her to have therapy. I can think of no other reason for this, other than insurance billing.

IMO, what I am seeing is an attorney stretching (or more) the truth to the courts to buy time. I am seeing a countrywide search for facilities, physicians and unconventional methods to take Jahi's body, operate on it and maintain it with machines, medicine, nutrition and other experimental methods.

IMO, they are looking for those that are willing to go against laws, ethics and even falsify documents and possibly end up with severe legal ramifications to prolong the inevitable, will her body slowly wastes away.

I just can't find any sense in all of this, no matter how I try and look at it.

BBM
Something I have discovered since my COPD diagnoses is everything has to be prescribed by a Dr. Physical therapy, resp therapy, oxygen for both at home and portable, wheel chairs, pretty much any equipment and physical therapies need to have it. In some ways I can understand that, but in other ways it's irritating.

 

[kimlynn]

I work in this world

it's totally dependent on how many care providers see Jahi & how rapid they "make notes to the EHR", on how many EHR systems are used to manage Jahi's care, and on how long it takes to aggregate all the information together - definitely takes longer than one day to "record" one day of patient care

typically the full medical record starts at admission & ends at discharge

I do understand that it takes time and being that Jahi is still at the hospital that it would be impossible to have records at hand as each day unfolds.
I do think that an effort could have been made in this case so that it could move along without being tied up in the system.
I also have a problem (if true) that a denial of the records was made when the mother requested them.I think she said she was denied the records,but I could be wrong.
IMO

 

[Donjeta]

I still see this as two separate issues. Her medical records may have had to do with WHY she died. I don't see what that has to do with the situation now. :twocents:

I suppose he means that he's selected completely inappropriate care facilities, if they can be called such, for Jahi because he's not aware of Jahi's condition and her needs due to not having seen everything in the medical records.

 

[Softail]

Here it is, Page 8 - Petition for Writ - It refers to the mother as the Guardian Ad Litem. (I find that odd, I thought it was supposed to be an independent person :waitasec

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/165969136/Mcmath-12302013



Guardian Ad Litem
A guardian appointed by the court to represent the interests of Infants, the unborn, or incompetent persons in legal actions.

Guardians are adults who are legally responsible for protecting the well-being and interests of their ward, who is usually a minor. A guardian ad litem is a unique type of guardian in a relationship that has been created by a court order only for the duration of a legal action. Courts appoint these special representatives for infants, minors, and mentally incompetent persons, all of whom generally need help protecting their rights in court. Such court-appointed guardians figure in divorces, child neglect and abuse cases, paternity suits, contested inheritances, and so forth, and are usually attorneys.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Guardian+Ad+Litem

 

[meme4]

Please tell me what therapy a deceased person would require.......Boggles my mind, we are entering the twilight zone.......