Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #4

[Isabelle]

I think the highlight was when he appeared annoyed that CHO revealed details about Jahi's medical condition in the court filings. Yeah, I guess they should have lied to the court and gone along with the story that it was just a routine tonsillectomy.

The wording, "come hell or high water", doesn't sound like everything's been arranged for the transfer and it's just a matter of doing it imo. I'd use that if I'm expecting great difficulties with what I'm trying to do, not when I've got all set.

I think it would have been good if no comments were made by anyone connected to CHO. Should have kept their traps shut, including their attorney/ies.

 

[Donjeta]

See, I completely disagree. I think Children's is the one with the agenda- to cover their butts and they are the ones not telling the whole truth. I think this family is genuine and I support them!

Everybody has an agenda and of course they are not telling the whole truth, imo. They are not allowed by law even to begin telling the truth because the family has not authorized them to.

There are two different main issues here and who's wrong and who's right may depend on the issue we look at imo.

1. What happened during and after the surgery to make Jahi brain dead?
2. Now that she is brain dead, should her organ support continue indefinitely?

Even if the hospital was at fault and it was negligence or malpractice that caused Jahi's injury they might still be right when they say she's brain dead and ventilating deceased people is unethical and futile.

 

[Donjeta]

Sounds like she bled out within a short time after surgery. Then again we don't have the hospitals word so it could all be lies.

Who knows. I haven't seen how long she was in recovery before being transferred to ICU, I don't think.

 

[Donjeta]

I think it would have been good if no comments were made by anyone connected to CHO. Should have kept their traps shut, including their attorney/ies.

Some comments would have been better left unsaid but I think they had to submit something to the court to support their position.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Donjeta thanks for the link.

snipped

The girl was brought to the intensive care unit, where her mother was told that caregivers would fix her IV, the document states. After 25-45 minutes, her mother found her sitting up in bed and bleeding from the mouth.

"The nursing staff said 'it was normal' and the mother stayed bedside as the bleeding grew increasingly worse," according to the document. "The nurses gave (her mother) a cup/catch basin for (Jahi) to bleed from her mouth into."

So now it's up to 45 minutes after entering icu from recovery that the heavy bleeding starts.

Is it known how long she was in recovery before the transfer to icu? TIA

I have to ask were they looking at the clock and writing down the time? Seconds or minutes can seem like hours in times of duress.

I think we will only know the truth if the hospital is allowed to release the medical records and speak on what happened. I doubt this will happen unless it somehow comes out in court.

 

[SwampMama]

They will file an appeal in state court on monday, imo. And it will all be done quietly and privately...or not. jmo

I imagine, that much like their previous moves, they will wait to the last minute and then plead for more time. I don't really think that they have everything in order like they say they do and will be scrambling Tuesday evening to get stuff done and once again plead for time. Then if they don't get it, they can blame the hospital, the legal system and everyone else on earth.

 

[Isabelle]

I agree completely. If the hospital is using computer charting it will be near impossible to "fix" things. I believe CHO wanted her off the vent and out the door ASAP. BTW did you know that a hospital can charge family whatever per page for copies of medical record. Years ago, at one hospital where I worked, charge was $10.00 per page and partial record not allowed.

Some comments would have been better left unsaid but I think they had to submit something to the court to support their position.

I agree they would have to submit to the court. No media contact should have been allowed and this is where privacy rights were breached by CHO. One could say that a deceased person has no right to privacy, I guess.

 

[krimekat]

I think it would have been good if no comments were made by anyone connected to CHO. Should have kept their traps shut, including their attorney/ies.

The Court ordered CHO to "comment"

 

[Isabelle]

The Court ordered CHO to "comment"

Did the court order comments be made to the media by hospital reps outside the courtroom?

 

[krimekat]

I agree they would have to submit to the court. No media contact should have been allowed and this is where privacy rights were breached by CHO. One could say that a deceased person has no right to privacy, I guess.

BBM: I don't see where CHO has breached any privacy rights. Court records are public record

 

[Herat]

Did the court order comments be made to the media by hospital reps outside the courtroom?

No, Dolan and the McMath family pretty much did that on their own.....

 

[krimekat]

Did the court order comments be made to the media by hospital reps outside the courtroom?

Why wouldn't CHO make a comment to that media circus? None of their comments "breached" any privacy rules.

I would argue that Jahi's family should stop running to the media. It's my opinion they are making a mockery of Jahi's death

 

[Zuri]

I agree they would have to submit to the court. No media contact should have been allowed and this is where privacy rights were breached by CHO. One could say that a deceased person has no right to privacy, I guess.

In the court documents that were kindly posted on here, NW submitted her perception of events via her attorney. CHO submitted their version of events based on documentation by highly trained staff members. I fail to see where CHO had the ability to lie. If, what NW says is true, why not untie the hands of CHO so they can either verify what NW is saying as true or provide facts as to the contrary. IMO

 

[LinasK]

eta nurses should have been checking every 5 minutes for any sign of bleeding in the nose or throat imo. Not waiting for it to come pouring out. They knew she was at risk

I agree and am expecting a whopping multi million dollar lawsuit once Jahi is seen as dead for the hospital for letting her die, not cooperating with family, not giving them time to transfer elsewhere-ithout law suits, for all the litigation and emotional distress.

My big question is how in the world did they let that little girl die. I would sue on that alone. She was in PICU. She shouldn't have gotten past the first blood clot without heroic action being taken but it seems nothing was done until the family saw her bleeding. One drop of blood should have been seen by nurses and doctors and sent her back to surgery. Obese or not, she is a child who deserved the chance to live and the doctors didn't give it to her. It may be partially what is fuelling mom right now.

I hope mom wins a lawsuit for malpractice encompassing all of the things done by CHO. Including name calling of her as the corpose in front of the family.

I am getting angry that the mom is trashed while she is grieving. The hospital spokesman was a disaster.

all imo

eta. Just to say I don't expect and neither should the hospital expect a grieving mom to act the way they want her to. She is grieving. that gets a lot of passes from me and certainly should from medical professionals

Silky Safata, I completely agree with you!!!

 

[Herat]

One could say that a deceased person has no right to privacy, I guess.

The law determines what kinds of "right to privacy" exists for a deceased person.

I am not sure but I would not be surprised if the law declares the autopsy report can be available to the public and is not a confidential document unless there is a specific criminal investigation. I do not believe this falls under a criminal investigation.

Not much privacy there, and it is the law.

 

[LinasK]

Under the agreement, Jahi's mother, Nailah Winkfield, is "wholly and exclusively responsible for Jahi McMath the moment custody is transferred in the hospital's pediatric intensive care unit and acknowledge(s) that she understands that the transfer and subsequent transport could impact the condition of the body, including causing cardiac arrest."

The transport team will transfer Jahi's endotracheal tube from the hospital's ventilator to a new one, along with her IV and other fluids so that she can continue to breathe.

Now, under the agreement, the hospital will allow workers to enter its premises and remove Jahi without contact from a facility that would receive her.

Dolan said he would not discuss details about where or when Jahi will be moved but said that a doctor would perform any necessary surgical procedures at an undisclosed facility.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Hospital-agrees-to-let-Jahi-McMath-family-take-5111584.php

I'm very happy to hear this! Get her OUT of Children's!!!

 

[CHERIE.T]

No worries. It can be confusing terminology, because "apnea" means no breathing, and a "failed apnea test" might be interpreted by lay people to mean the patient IS breathing.

The mechanism of testing is to remove the ventilator, and allow sufficient time for the CO2 (carbon dioxide level) to rise to a level where the body's physiological mechanisms "should" kick in for the centrally mediated (brain) respiratory drive. So, a "failed" apnea test means that there was no centrally mediated "brain" efforts to initiate respiration.

B B M
Repeating because IMO this is important.

 

[Herat]

In the court documents that were kindly posted on here, NW submitted her perception of events via her attorney. CHO submitted their version of events based on documentation by highly trained staff members. I fail to see where CHO had the ability to lie. If, what NW says is true, why not untie the hands of CHO so they can either verify what NW is saying as true or provide facts as to the contrary. IMO

Because of the HIPPA act, it is Federal Law that medical records are private.

Federal Law

Also, as the medical record is incomplete, no disclosure would be made until the chart is considered complete and that can be weeks, depending on what sorts of tests or reports are pending.

CHO does not have the option to release her records, except under court order, and since this a federal law, I assume it would have to go to the Federal Magistrate, not the California courts.

 

[Donjeta]

I agree they would have to submit to the court. No media contact should have been allowed and this is where privacy rights were breached by CHO. One could say that a deceased person has no right to privacy, I guess.

No, just because someone is dead doesn't mean that their medical information is automatically public record imo. I don't think I learned anything confidential about Jahi's condition from the hospital pressers but I probably have not have seen them all.

It's extremely tricky to hold pressers in an adversarial situation where you want to defend your position, appear sympathetic of the family, and avoid talking about what happened at the same time. You can't really say anything of substance so it may turn on the basis of whether the audience likes the spokesman or not.

 

[Isabelle]

Why wouldn't CHO make a comment to that media circus? None of their comments "breached" any privacy rules.

I would argue that Jahi's family should stop running to the media. It's my opinion they are making a mockery of Jahi's death

Any comment made to the public concerning the patient is a breach of privacy. That does not include comments to the court. No public comments whatsoever. This does not include the mother, family or their attorney since they are not bound by health privacy laws.