Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

[Penelope]

No, I have no idea.
I do remember my mom coming back from open heart surgery to ICU, and she was not awake...had a million tubes in. We were allowed in once they got her "situated". Also last year, she was admitted to ICU for a blood infection (sepsis).The nurses let us stay in the room for hours. So, it's not unheard of for family members to be in ICU outside of normal visiting hours.

My husband spent a total of almost a month in an ICU in Winnipeg, Manitoba. The first time was for almost 2 weeks; the second time (about 6 months later) was a little over 2 weeks -- he went on to pass away while still there.

During both times he was in the ICU, the staff let family members be there with him -- usually no more than 2 or 3 at a time. However, we had over 20 people at his bed twice during his final stay-- first, when they took him off the respirator so he could talk to us briefly before they sedated him; and second, in the minutes before he died.

At all times when we were there, a staff member was only steps away. I felt as though I did not have to worry about my husband as much as if he had been on a regular ward in the hospital because in the ICU he had a nurse assigned to him 24/7.

I cannot imagine how the nurses/medical staff were not at Jahi's bedside within seconds of when she started bleeding. Also, there was no way that the staff of the ICU where my husband stayed would have allowed us to do anything regarding his care-- suctioning, etc. If anything medically serious was going on with him, they made us leave very quickly.

The family's story about what happened raises red flags. Although, I do remember a bed at one end of the ICU in Winnipeg that was used for patients who just had surgery. Maybe Jahi was in a recovery room/ICU where staff did not pay as much attention to patients as is done in a regular ICU.

 

[Elley Mae]

I saw that name in a post. Yankauer suction.

I went and looked at images of them and they remind me of the suction device that the dentist sticks in your mouth, they do have different angles, I would guess for different procedures.

 

[ferretnurse]

Interesting, I had a surgery 7 weeks ago, and I was marked with a marker before the surgery.

Must depend on the hospital. Actually, my doctor didn't know it, either. He asked the nurse in the pre-op holding room for the marker, and she explained why they don't use them. He normally did surgery at a different hospital then the one I was at.

 

[Sonya610]

I know it was reported by family that the ICU was previously scheduled for a one night stay.

Is that what you're referring to?

Yes that must be it, since HIPPA is still enforce. I know I didn't imagine the ICU thing as it has been cited MANY times in various blogs and whatnot.

Silly me thinking ANYTHING this family says (or statements from them reported as facts in articles) represents reality.

 

[Quester]

I would be willing to bet a lot that the Yankhauer in the cause of this horrific tragedy!

Yankauer sunction tip [yang´kow-er]

http://img.tfd.com/mk/Y/X2604-Y-02.eps.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Np348Zfo6A4/TeFuHnk4qKI/AAAAAAAAALY/QRmm7CDbqfQ/s1600/using_yankauer.jpg

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

Yankauer sunction tip [yang´kow-er]

http://img.tfd.com/mk/Y/X2604-Y-02.eps.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Np348Zfo6A4/TeFuHnk4qKI/AAAAAAAAALY/QRmm7CDbqfQ/s1600/using_yankauer.jpg

Yikes, no way I would be comfortable using that device on anyone. Especially considering I have zero training with one.

 

[swilla2]

RBBM -- This has been weighing on my mind greatly! I don't know which denomination of Christianity Jahi's family practice, but my understanding of the Christian faith is that they all believe Jesus is our savior. They also believe God awaits us in heaven and we meet our lost family members there as well. I could go on and on but most of us are familiar with Christianity. If Christians are destined for a better after life, how is the argument that here is better than there for her. I just really really don't understand or get it.

I get what you're saying. I've never been in this exact situation, but we did make the decision to take my mom off the vent once she coded and her kidneys (and other organs) had failed. She was being kept functioning via meds (which were struggling to do the job) and the vent, but she was gone. There is no way I would fight to take her home or keep her hooked to a machine. And she would not have wanted that either. My faith, as you've mentioned above, tells me she is in a better place.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

I get what you're saying. I've never been in this exact situation, but we did make the decision to take my mom off the vent once she coded and her kidneys (and other organs) had failed. She was being kept functioning via meds (which were struggling to do the job) and the vent, but she was gone. There is no way I would fight to take her home or keep her hooked to a machine. And she would not have wanted that either. My faith, as you've mentioned above, tells me she is in a better place.

(((hugs))) I'm so sorry about the loss of your Mom, swilla. I also believe those who have passed on are in a better place. Thank you for sharing your story.

 

[SeekingJana]

I went and looked at images of them and they remind me of the suction device that the dentist sticks in your mouth, they do have different angles, I would guess for different procedures.

Actually, the dentist uses the large suction cannula just inside the lips ( from my recent experiences with an oral surgeon, an endodontist and several trips to the reg. dentist). They are using dental dams and other barriers which prevent big blobs of " stuff" to land in the posterior pharynx now and I was SO relieved.

A Yankauer suction catheter is OFTEN reserved for the most dire circumstances, in an emergency, when someone has vomited, for instance, and needs immediate intubation. The vomitus has to be cleared out before the tube pushes food and stomach acids into the lungs.

In Jahi's case, a Yankauer suction catheter might be AVAILABLE at the bedside in case she was in distress--- to remove blood in an emergency situation.
They are always at the bedside in every ICU I've worked in, but usually stay in the sterile packaging.. They can do a lot of deep tissue damage and are for emergency use.

I would say that in 30 years, I used a Yankauer on 3 to 5 different patients in crisis, max, and most were in full Code Blue situations on a reg. medical floor or an admit to E.R. (recent food consumption being the common denominator for most uses).

 

[swilla2]

(((hugs))) I'm so sorry about the loss of your Mom, swilla. I also believe those who have passed on are in a better place. Thank you for sharing your story.

thank you! I have followed Jahi's story since before Christmas and, since my mom passed last year at Christmas, I've really been making comparisons. Regardless of how Jahi got to the point of needing the vent, the fact is, according to the law, she is deceased and not coming back. No amount of 'waiting it out' will change things.

 

[Sonya610]

Also, they didn't mark my abdomen with marker like they used to. They said it was an infection risk, so I had to wear an extra hospital bracelet on my left wrist, to remind and verify that it was the left ovary they were to remove.

I used the marker myself so they didn't mess up (ultimately had the left ovary removed too).

If infection from a marker is such a big deal how about testing all doctors and nurses to determine who amongst them might be carrying MRSA?

Yeah, let's worry about nail polish and magic markers while ignoring the serious stuff.

 

[katydid23]

I have since discovered that she underwent a high-risk surgery in which death and permanent neurologic injury occurred in 86 out of 111 cases (77%) reported in a recent study. See: Cote CJ, Posner KL, Domino KB. Death or Neurologic Injury After Tonsillectomy in Children with a Focus on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: Houston, We Have a Problem! (Anesth Analg 2013 Jul 10). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23842193

The authors recommend respiratory monitoring throughout first and second stage recovery.

http://frederickleatherman.com/2014/01/03/liability-issues-for-the-death-of-jahi-mcmath/

 

[SeekingJana]

I have since discovered that she underwent a high-risk surgery in which death and permanent neurologic injury occurred in 86 out of 111 cases (77%) reported in a recent study. See: Cote CJ, Posner KL, Domino KB. Death or Neurologic Injury After Tonsillectomy in Children with a Focus on Obstructive Sleep Apnea: Houston, We Have a Problem! (Anesth Analg 2013 Jul 10). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23842193

The authors recommend respiratory monitoring throughout first and second stage recovery.

http://frederickleatherman.com/2014/01/03/liability-issues-for-the-death-of-jahi-mcmath/

Katydid, to whom are you referring when you say " She" ? The link is about Jahi.. Thank you.

 

[Wolfie]

Infection from a marker is the least of concerns.

That's kind of what I was thinking too. They scrub you down again in the general area in the OR anyway.

 

[dh109977]

That's kind of what I was thinking too. They scrub you down again in the general area in the OR anyway.

I didn't get the marker when I had my surgery. I got instructions to wash my bedding and shower at night and before leaving for the hospital with antibacterial soap. I got sedated in the hallway on the way to the or. I don't know why. I figure I must of been cranky because it was super early and they didn't want to hear me anymore.

 

[Sonya610]

Katydid, to whom are you referring when you say " She" ? The link is about Jahi.. Thank you.

Katydid provided a valid link. Thank you.

 

[Softail]

Peeps, stop with the brain soup comments... Jahi has no choice in all this. thanks...

Thank you for this. I think we all know where things are going...

 

[BuzzieCat]

Interesting, I had a surgery 7 weeks ago, and I was marked with a marker before the surgery.

Must depend on the hospital. Actually, my doctor didn't know it, either. He asked the nurse in the pre-op holding room for the marker, and she explained why they don't use them. He normally did surgery at a different hospital then the one I was at.

Interesting side discussion. I just had shoulder surgery 4 weeks ago today and they stamped a little "YES" on the correct shoulder before they put me under. Then when I woke up, I had even more marker drawings all over the top of my shoulder.

I wish Jahi's mother had a trusted psychologist or psychiatrist to work with her. Just a layperson here but keep thinking the mother probably has some kind of dysfunctional grieving, though when I look it up I mostly find definitions that seem to indicate that one would only be diagnosed with this if the grieving lasted for a certain length of time, like 6 months I think, in addition to other symptoms. Jahi's mother has the refusal to acknowledge that her loved one is dead and has taken some rather extreme steps to maintain the illusion of life, but it has "only" been 1 month. Perhaps if she could get treatment for this it would help her, because eventually, weeks or months or years from now (depending on how long Jahi's body can be maintained), she is going to have reality come crashing in on her.

 

[Quester]

[JM]: Timeline of events in case of brain-dead Oakland teen
Oakland Tribune; Posted: 01/05/2014 09:27:39 PM PST

http://www.contracostatimes.com/new...ine-events-case-brain-dead-oakland?source=pkg

 

[katydid23]

Katydid, to whom are you referring when you say " She" ? The link is about Jahi.. Thank you.

'She' refers to Jahi. That was cut and pasted from a very interesting article about the tragic case. I provided the appropriate links.