Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #8

[CHERIE.T]

http://www.kalispellregional.org/brendanhouse/about-us

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About Us

At Brendan House, we value the quality of life as much as the quality of care, providing a home that offers the highest level of skilled and rehabilitative care, while encouraging active participation in life. With 110 beds, Brendan House offers skilled nursing for transitional care, long-term care and comfort care uniquely dividing into six pods

Definitely more than one.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Sadly, both Marlise Munoz and Jahi McMath will, IMO, both be best known for the circus-like atmosphere, and extraordinary conditions under which the bodies of both were kept alive after their deaths.

Both will end up as footnotes and case studies in medical articles as examples of (IMO) the cluster of unwise decisions perpetrated by well meaning, but horribly misguided people. People such as the doctors and administrators in the Munoz case, and including the decision by the judge in the McMath case. In this particular case, the desire to extend compassion to NW has set a disturbing precedent, IMO.

I have compassion for NW. However, I have no compassion or respect for the legions of her enablers. They have not made the situation any better for NW, only greatly complicated and delayed the process of letting go of her beloved daughter. How painful and pitiable is it to hear NW describe her daughter's brain dead body as "blossoming into a teenager"? Every single person who is contributing support to NW's painful delusional state is contemptible, IMO. Particularly those who are manipulating religion and doctrine as a false hope and a crutch. IMO. This child is incapable of waking up, ever. She cannot improve. It is cruel to prolong this illusion. IMO.

:gthanks:

 

[Buttered Fly]

I did see the one in Montana. That's a different facility. The one affiliated with New Beginnings is actually not on the same premises. This is what I found (yeah, I decided to go back to their site and find the info.)

The Brendan House A long term care residence for veterans and civilians with physical & cognitive disabilities. Dedicated in loving memory of Brendan Knight Aykroyd

The Brendan House, a 12 bedroom long tern care home for people with traumatic brain injury or other cognitive and physical disabilities, located at 4079 Sound Ave, Riverhead. This home offers a chance to become independent and have a "New Beginning". The renovations for the Brendan House are expected to cost approximately $200,000 and we need your help and assistance to make this dream come true.

http://nbli.donordepot.com/civicrm/event/info?id=19&reset=1

Again, no information on medical staff. Just 1 page with a brief description and at the bottom asking for donations.

 

[al66pine]

From Buttered Fly post 1118, per nbli.org --
New Beginnings Com Ctr vice pres Steven Scerri has management
experience w a cemetery and three self-storage facilities.

And this is where Jai is said to be?
I've wondered before, as others have, where she is.

Buttered Fly,
Way back in late Dec & Jan, posts discussed -
How could Jai be placed for med care in this particular facility (?!?!)
which did not seem to be registered w or licensed by St health boards or agencies.
Wish I could easily direct you to relevant posts.
IIRC, the med folks here on W/S said basically not likely (imp).

 

[CHERIE.T]

BF, yes, Im now reading about the facilities in different states. How sad that the mom refuses to accept that there will be no rehabilitation for Jahi/\,

 

[Buttered Fly]

From Buttered Fly post 1118, per nbli.org --
New Beginnings Com Ctr vice pres Steven Scerri has management experience w a cemetery and three self-storage facilities.

And this is where Jai is said to be?
I've wondered before, as others have, where she is.

Buttered Fly,
Way back in late Dec & Jan, posts discussed -
How could Jai be placed for med care in this particular facility (?!?!)
which did not seem to be registered w or licensed by St health boards or agencies.
Wish I could easily direct you to relevant posts.
IIRC, the med folks here on W/S said basically not likely (imp).

I don't know for a fact she is there. I found that information today and thought I would share. In her mother's interview she said she was not in CA so maybe this is where she was taken. In my opinion, I would not take my child to a place that has a licensed cosmetologist as the founder and President.

 

[al66pine]

Buttered Fly,
When I saw ref to Brendan House in Riverhead, like you,
I thought Montana.
But contact on website shows NY, not Mt.
Also, website does not exactly represent it as a currently operating facility.
My paraphrasing
- renovations expected to cost about $200,000, help dream come true.

IIRC, someone posted a pix of house to be renovated, which appeared uninhabitable.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Early on it was openly reported that a certain relative was a cosmetologist.

 

[Buttered Fly]

Buttered Fly,
When I saw ref to Brendan House in Riverhead, like you,
I thought Montana.
But contact on website shows NY, not Mt.
Also, website does not exactly represent it as a currently operating facility.
My paraphrasing
- renovations expected to cost about $200,000, help dream come true.

IIRC, someone posted a pix of house to be renovated, which appeared uninhabitable.

It's possible. There is no date stating when the renovations were to be done or if they have been done.

 

[Sedonia Sunset]

Scerri’s management experience also includes the daily operations and finances of various companies he has founded, as well as Mt. Pleasant Cemetery in Center Moriches, N.Y., and three self-storage facilities.

This guy has fingers in all sorts of pies. Am I the only one reading this and thinking there are ingredients here for a horror/thriller/detective/cop novel? Let's see:

- He manages a medical facility for brain-damaged and/or brain-dead people.

- He manages a cemetery.

- He manages three storage facilities.

One way or another, this guy is going to make money having to do with storage of one kind or another.

 

[Buttered Fly]

I just did a search on google maps for the Brendan House address. I did a street view. There is a New Beginnings sign in front of the house. It looks like a quaint house. A little run down. It looks more like a bed and breakfast, not a brain injury rehabilitation facility. It doesn't look like it would have medical facilities. I can't quite zoom in close enough to see everything on the sign.

 

[Buttered Fly]

This guy has fingers in all sorts of pies. Am I the only one reading this and thinking there are ingredients here for a horror/thriller/detective/cop novel? Let's see:

- He manages a medical facility for brain-damaged and/or brain-dead people.

- He manages a cemetery.

- He manages three storage facilities.

One way or another, this guy is going to make money having to do with storage of one kind or another.

I don't know why but your post made me laugh. Maybe because the truth of it is unbelievable.

 

[K_Z]

Regarding the New Beginnings group in New York.

Their "facilities" are a Community Center, which consists of rental space to various outpatient therapists in order to provide access to centralized services (outpatient) in a convenient location. Their other goal is funding and opening a long term "group home" situation, and they are raising money to renovate this old home. (Pics and description at link.) The home has barely begun to be renovated-- early threads here showed pics with digging machinery at the site, and the house appeared as it does in this link.

http://newbeginningscommunitycenter.com/assets/pdfs/brendanHouseFlyer2013.pdf

Neither of these "facilities" are traditional, licensed inpatient care facilities.

Jahi is not a "patient" in the traditional sense (she is declared brain dead), so it is potentially possible her body could be cared for there "legally" (as legal as having her body in a private home, I suppose).

They would have to set up an area specifically for her body's care, as they have no inpatient capabilities, and no health care professionals "on staff". Their services (at link above) include space rented to chiropractors, acupuncturists, massage therapists, physical therapists, speech therapy, occupational therapy, etc. Certainly a wonderful idea for centralized services for outpatient TBI patients. (Jahi's body does not exactly fit that description, however.)

 

[Buttered Fly]

Ok. I was able to get a close up of the sign in front of the house.
If I could get a screen shot I would but I don't know how to get one from google maps.
The sign says: Please make a donation today and help our community project reach its goal.
Below that is the logo and in big blue letters New Beginnings Brendan House.
Below that it says it is a long term care RESIDENCE for veterans and civilians with physical and cognitive disabilities.
Then the phone number and website address is listed.
On the right hand side is their goal meter. Only the bottom portion of the meter is filled.

 

[Buttered Fly]

Regarding the New Beginnings group in New York.

Their "facilities" are a Community Center, which consists of rental space to various outpatient therapists in order to provide access to centralized services (outpatient) in a convenient location. Their other goal is funding and opening a long term "group home" situation, and they are raising money to renovate this old home. (Pics and description at link.) The home has barely begun to be renovated-- early threads here showed pics with digging machinery at the site, and the house appeared as it does in this link.

http://newbeginningscommunitycenter.com/assets/pdfs/brendanHouseFlyer2013.pdf

Neither of these "facilities" are traditional, licensed inpatient care facilities.

Jahi is not a "patient" in the traditional sense (she is declared brain dead), so it is potentially possible her body could be cared for there "legally" (as legal as having her body in a private home, I suppose).

They would have to set up an area specifically for her body's care, as they have no inpatient capabilities, and no health care professionals "on staff". Their services (at link above) include space rented to chiropractors, acupuncturists, massage therapists, physical therapists, speech therapy, occupational therapy, etc. Certainly a wonderful idea for centralized services for outpatient TBI patients. (Jahi's body does not exactly fit that description, however.)

Thank you. She is not a patient. You're right. She is dead so I suppose it wouldn't matter if there are medical professionals on site or staff.

So the folks at this place are renting out space. They're not really running anything except for maybe setting up appointments, paying the utilities, holding fundraisers, and stuff like that?
I still can't wrap my head around it all. It's just so odd to me.

 

[wendiesan]

Buttered Fly,
When I saw ref to Brendan House in Riverhead, like you,
I thought Montana.
But contact on website shows NY, not Mt.
Also, website does not exactly represent it as a currently operating facility.
My paraphrasing
- renovations expected to cost about $200,000, help dream come true.

IIRC, someone posted a pix of house to be renovated, which appeared uninhabitable.

So nothing has changed in the nearly three months since we first discussed this place?

 

[Philigumbo]

I just wanted to add in this discussion of where this child may be, that a ventilated patient (or body, I prefer to say in this case), with a trach, does not necessarily need to be in a medical facility. There are many such patients who are cared for at home, or other lesser acute care facilities. Home health care nurses can visit, and family and/or caregivers can be trained regarding the vent, and other care needed. It does not have to be a medical facility...or have medically trained staff. She could be in any house, resort, long term care facility, etc., heck, maybe she's at HOME!

 

[lawstudent]

I think you're misunderstanding me.

I take issue with calling her a dead body, a rotting corpse. I do not believe she is either.

In the link you provided above, her body is described a "living" ...as her brain is dead.

I'm not disputing brain death. I'm not even disputing her brain no longer looks like a brain.

I'm disputing calling her a corpse.

Yes, this is ridiculous to me as well. It's unnecessary nastiness. I'm all one for stating the truth, and I don't believe in religion - I believe Jahi is gone and beyond saving, and no miracle will occur. I would never do what her parents have done.

But huge portions of society do tend to believe in miracles long after they should - the situation just isn't as easy to mock. Her brain is nonfunctional - she is not a corpse. She is not rotting away, her body is still functioning, even through artificial means. I don't believe she has any thoughts or awareness, nor will she ever. But she's not a corpse, and making the parents sound like people who keep a corpse in their attic because they are deranged is not funny. A lot of parents would keep life support going long beyond when they should, especially if they don't know much about brain injuries. And they'd just keep insisting that God can do everything. They are desperate.

Her brain was deprived of oxygen and much of it died - people are making this sound like some freak thing that means she's just a a corpse rotting from the inside. That could happen to any part of your body - before modern medical treatment, people's limbs died from lack of blood flow and rotted off but we didn't say they were dead. Parts of them were. People with frostbite have the same issue. You are not dead until everything is dead.

Again, I don't agree with the parents by any means, but I also don't think this is a case of first impression craziness. Many people have been kept alive much longer than they should have been to to misguided ideas they would recover, brain dead or not. Some people see life as more than having the ability to think. Quality of life judgments are opinions. I know in this case there's really no life and the quality doesn't matter. But her parents see her and she looks fairly normal, and she does not look like a corpse, and they have false hope. It's not fair to keep emphasizing how dead she is - and how she can't be a patient.

That's just not true - it's not politics driving semantics - it's just we don't refer to people as dead outside of a clinical setting until they are actually dead. There is a clear difference between brain and real death in terms of decomposition. It makes no difference for Jahi, but it does to her family. They certainly don't want to sit with a corpse, and they aren't. They take comfort in the parts of her body that still work, and it's sad and pathetic and desperate, but I don't know why people need to be nasty about it. Even if it's a big waste of money, that's not the proper response. Education about brain injuries is.

And although I know the doctors in this case were up front about her prospects, I've seen a lot of doctors be a bit too hesitant with the truth. No one wants to give bad news, but some seem to be unable to tell cancer patients they are terminal in my experience. We need to make people more aware, because most are really ignorant about basic medicine. Religious and old-fashioned ways of looking at things get in the way (I'm sure there are social media pages out there with everyone giving prayers for recovery). People need to understand what brain death is and how it differs from other traumatic brain injuries, before they get into a traumatic situation and can't process new ideas. Anger won't teach them.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, this is ridiculous to me as well. It's unnecessary nastiness. I'm all one for stating the truth, and I don't believe in religion - I believe Jahi is gone and beyond saving, and no miracle will occur. I would never do what her parents have done.



But huge portions of society do tend to believe in miracles long after they should - the situation just isn't as easy to mock. Her brain is nonfunctional - she is not a corpse. She is not rotting away, her body is still functioning, even through artificial means. I don't believe she has any thoughts or awareness, nor will she ever. But she's not a corpse, and making the parents sound like people who keep a corpse in their attic because they are deranged is not funny. A lot of parents would keep life support going long beyond when they should, especially if they don't know much about brain injuries. And they'd just keep insisting that God can do everything. They are desperate.



Her brain was deprived of oxygen and much of it died - people are making this sound like some freak thing that means she's just a a corpse rotting from the inside. That could happen to any part of your body - before modern medical treatment, people's limbs died from lack of blood flow and rotted off but we didn't say they were dead. Parts of them were. People with frostbite have the same issue. You are not dead until everything is dead.



Again, I don't agree with the parents by any means, but I also don't think this is a case of first impression craziness. Many people have been kept alive much longer than they should have been to to misguided ideas they would recover, brain dead or not. Some people see life as more than having the ability to think. Quality of life judgments are opinions. I know in this case there's really no life and the quality doesn't matter. But her parents see her and she looks fairly normal, and she does not look like a corpse, and they have false hope. It's not fair to keep emphasizing how dead she is - and how she can't be a patient.



That's just not true - it's not politics driving semantics - it's just we don't refer to people as dead outside of a clinical setting until they are actually dead. There is a clear difference between brain and real death in terms of decomposition. It makes no difference for Jahi, but it does to her family. They certainly don't want to sit with a corpse, and they aren't. They take comfort in the parts of her body that still work, and it's sad and pathetic and desperate, but I don't know why people need to be nasty about it. Even if it's a big waste of money, that's not the proper response. Education about brain injuries is.



And although I know the doctors in this case were up front about her prospects, I've seen a lot of doctors be a bit too hesitant with the truth. No one wants to give bad news, but some seem to be unable to tell cancer patients they are terminal in my experience. We need to make people more aware, because most are really ignorant about basic medicine. Religious and old-fashioned ways of looking at things get in the way (I'm sure there are social media pages out there with everyone giving prayers for recovery). People need to understand what brain death is and how it differs from other traumatic brain injuries, before they get into a traumatic situation and can't process new ideas. Anger won't teach them.

Thank you button just wasn't enough. You've put all of my feelings into words that I have been unable to find. You did it with so much eloquence, I just wanted to say, I'm thankful


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nrdsb4]

Her brain was deprived of oxygen and much of it died - people are making this sound like some freak thing that means she's just a a corpse rotting from the inside. That could happen to any part of your body - before modern medical treatment, people's limbs died from lack of blood flow and rotted off but we didn't say they were dead. Parts of them were. People with frostbite have the same issue. You are not dead until everything is dead.

BBM

I appreciate many of your sentiments. More people could do with a little bit of your compassion. However, it is incorrect to say "much" of her brain died. All of it died-the entire brain and brain stem.

Also, I hardly think you can compare losing a finger to frostbite to losing one's entire brain. The brain isn't just a body part-it is where the "person" inside the body resides. In California, being brain dead IS dead just the same as if your heart stopped permanently. I disagree with calling her a corpse, but it doesn't make her any less dead, particularly from a legal standpoint, which is significant for many reasons. If you watch the video linked above, when you see the animated graphic of what happens to a person's brain after brain death, you realize why most states regard this as being irreversibly dead. Legally, and for all intents and purposes for this girl's "life," your last sentence is incorrect.