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As Calif. fires burned, copters grounded

LOS ANGELES - As wildfires were charging across Southern California, nearly two dozen water-dropping helicopters and two massive cargo planes sat idly by, grounded by government rules and bureaucracy. How much the aircraft would have helped will never be known, but their inability to provide quick assistance raises troubling questions about California's preparations for a fire season that was widely expected to be among the worst on record.

It took as long as a day for Navy, Marine and California National Guard helicopters to get clearance early this week, in part because state rules require all firefighting choppers to be accompanied by state forestry "fire spotters" who coordinate water or retardant drops. By the time those spotters arrived, the powerful Santa Ana winds stoking the fires had made it too dangerous to fly.

The National Guard's C-130 cargo planes, among the most powerful aerial firefighting weapons, never were slated to help. The reason: They've yet to be outfitted with tanks needed to carry thousands of gallons of fire retardant, though that was promised four years ago.

"The weight of bureaucracy kept these planes from flying, not the heavy winds," Republican U.S. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher told The Associated Press. "When you look at what's happened, it's disgusting, inexcusable foot-dragging that's put tens of thousands of people in danger. Rohrabacher and other members of California's congressional delegation are demanding answers about aircraft deployment. And some fire officials have grumbled that a quicker deployment of aircraft could have helped corral many of the wildfires that quickly flared out of control and have so far burned 500,000 acres from Malibu to the Mexican border.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/wildfires_grounded_aircraft
 
As Calif. fires burned, copters grounded

LOS ANGELES - As wildfires were charging across Southern California, nearly two dozen water-dropping helicopters and two massive cargo planes sat idly by, grounded by government rules and bureaucracy. How much the aircraft would have helped will never be known, but their inability to provide quick assistance raises troubling questions about California's preparations for a fire season that was widely expected to be among the worst on record.

It took as long as a day for Navy, Marine and California National Guard helicopters to get clearance early this week, in part because state rules require all firefighting choppers to be accompanied by state forestry "fire spotters" who coordinate water or retardant drops. By the time those spotters arrived, the powerful Santa Ana winds stoking the fires had made it too dangerous to fly.

The National Guard's C-130 cargo planes, among the most powerful aerial firefighting weapons, never were slated to help. The reason: They've yet to be outfitted with tanks needed to carry thousands of gallons of fire retardant, though that was promised four years ago.

"The weight of bureaucracy kept these planes from flying, not the heavy winds," Republican U.S. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher told The Associated Press. "When you look at what's happened, it's disgusting, inexcusable foot-dragging that's put tens of thousands of people in danger. Rohrabacher and other members of California's congressional delegation are demanding answers about aircraft deployment. And some fire officials have grumbled that a quicker deployment of aircraft could have helped corral many of the wildfires that quickly flared out of control and have so far burned 500,000 acres from Malibu to the Mexican border.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/wildfires_grounded_aircrafthttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/wildfires_grounded_aircraft
I posted this in the other thread and that one got closed. I am glad you brough it over because it is a very interesting read.
 
Thank you for starting a new thread. If I had to wade through one more post on Love_Mama's new grandchild...

(That's just a joke, LM. My heartiest congratulations!)

Thank you Nova...........Appreciated.
You're so warm and fuzzy!

xxxxxooo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss:
 
FOXBOROUGH, Mass. (AP) - Junior Seau has more to worry about right now than Clinton Portis and the rest of the Washington Redskins offense.

The New England Patriots linebacker also is thinking about his hometown of San Diego, which has been ravaged by wildfires. Nearly 460,000 acres have burned in California this week, and losses in San Diego County alone total at least $1 billion.
Seau said Thursday that at least one of his homes has burned and a restaurant he owns was temporarily used as a shelter.

"It's definitely not a normal week," said Seau, whose family, including his three children, live in San Diego.

The 18-year veteran spent his first 13 seasons with the Chargers, earning 12 straight Pro Bowl selections. Seau has several houses in the San Diego area.
Seau returned to the city Tuesday, the Patriots' off-day this week as they prepare for Sunday's game against the Redskins. He helped relocate his parents to a beach-front home he owns in an area outside the danger zone.

More at Link
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7373930?MSNHPHMA
 
4 charred bodies in Calif. migrant camp

SAN DIEGO - Four charred bodies were found Thursday in an apparent migrant camp burned by one of the wildfires raging across Southern California, authorities said Thursday. If the fire was responsible for the deaths — which authorities said was not immediately certain — it would mean seven people have died in the flames that have consumed about 750 square miles and at least 1,800 homes since the weekend.

Border Patrol agents on routine patrol found the bodies in a wooded area near Barrett Junction, just east of San Diego and along the Mexican border, agency spokeswoman Gloria Chavez said. The area is near a major corridor for illegal immigrants who often walk hours or even days to cross into the United States from Mexico.

Authorities said they discovered the bodies Thursday afternoon but did not know how long ago the victims died. "They could have been out there a while," said Paul Parker, a spokesman for the San Diego County medical examiner's office. They were tentatively identified as three men and one woman.

The area was burned by the Harris Fire, which straddles the Mexican border. That was the same fire that claimed the life of 52-year-old Tecate man who refused to leave his house when the area was evacuated Sunday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071026/ap_on_re_us/california_wildfires
 
Evacuations have been lfited for Ramona. This is really big news. Partial lift for Fallbrook.
 
We thought that my son & DIL's house in Modjeska Canyon had burned, but we found out it was spared. But they were evacuated and can't return for 5 days because of the FBI investigation. Son is here with us and DIL is with the pets and her other MIL in Mission Viejo.

So this afternoon dau calls and says she, her husband and 3 kids are on their way to spend a few days. They live in Coto de Caza, and the smoke is causing problems for their 4 yr old, so we are having a full house this weekend. Hope other son in Anaheim Hills is OK doesn't have to evacuate too.
 
We thought that my son & DIL's house in Modjeska Canyon had burned, but we found out it was spared. But they were evacuated and can't return for 5 days because of the FBI investigation. Son is here with us and DIL is with the pets and her other MIL in Mission Viejo.

So this afternoon dau calls and says she, her husband and 3 kids are on their way to spend a few days. They live in Coto de Caza, and the smoke is causing problems for their 4 yr old, so we are having a full house this weekend. Hope other son in Anaheim Hills is OK doesn't have to evacuate too.
I bet Coto is really smokey. My gf lives in AH and she is fine.
I am so happy about your son's house in Modjeska!
 
JBeanya, find out why the SDPD are tiptoeing around on this issue?? The ACLU is all over the illegal immigrant issue. Geez, these guys were stealing; what else did they need to know??

Arrest of Six Illegal Immigrants at Qualcomm Raises Concerns

The arrest of six illegal immigrants at the Qualcomm Stadium evacuation site yesterday raises questions regarding how San Diego Police handle immigration issues. Civil rights activists are concerned police may be violating their own policy with respect to the Border Patrol. KPBS Reporter Amy Isackson has details.

San Diego Police are defending their actions at Qualcomm. They say six people were arrested on suspicion of stealing emergency supplies, including food and water, to resell them. And one admitted he was in the country illegally. Paul Cooper is counsel to San Diego's police chief. He says that's why police called in the Border Patrol. Cooper: There was some reasonable suspicion that there had been some criminal activity afoot and there was a question about immigration status. And they were detained very briefly until Border Patrol could get there. San Diego Police policy allows officers to contact Border Patrol when a suspect is believed to be involved in criminal activity.

But that same policy forbids police from contacting Border Patrol if the suspect is involved in a misdemeanor or minor traffic infractions. However, when questioned about the specifics of cooperation with local law enforcement, Border Patrol spokesman Damon Foreman said it’s not unusual for police to call Border Patrol when they stop someone for speeding or a broken tail light. Foreman: They'll call us if they have to pull over a vehicle for whatever probable cause they have to pull the vehicle over. And if the people don't speak English or they don't present them with any documents at all...sometimes people present the police with a Mexican drivers license of they present them with a consular card, or something. And they'll call the Border Patrol for assistance.

It’s this close cooperation that stokes fear among many undocumented immigrants say immigrants' rights activists. They say that's especially true during emergencies like this week's potentially life threatening fires. Activists say many migrants avoided evacuation and shelters or left Qualcomm because of it. Kevin Keenan is Executive Director of the ACLU. He says he hopes police can resolve the discrepancy. Keenan: The top brass at San Diego Police Department have been consistent and worked right. They have a clear policy. It’s a reasonable one. We're very concerned that front line rank and file are not following that policy. It’s unclear whether the policy was violated at Qualcomm, though police insist they did nothing wrong. Keenan says he'll follow up with the chief. Meanwhile, the men suspected of stealing were deported to Mexico. Police say they were not charged.

http://www.kpbs.org/news/local;id=10001
 
I'll be interested in seeing a follow up on this BUzz. this is an ongoing issue not unique to the SDPD.

As an aside it was reported today that the Q cleared out thousands today when officials started checking out people's ID's to see if they were eligible to be there. Since things calmed down, they decided to make sure that everyone that was there belonged there. Suddenly a few thousand people left before their ID's could be checked.
 
Just by me - Whooop-diddly-do! Some thieving illegals got caught, checked, and deported - good deal. Illegals want to go to the shelters and feel safe - don't steal!
 
I'll be interested in seeing a follow up on this BUzz. this is an ongoing issue not unique to the SDPD.

As an aside it was reported today that the Q cleared out thousands today when officials started checking out people's ID's to see if they were eligible to be there. Since things calmed down, they decided to make sure that everyone that was there belonged there. Suddenly a few thousand people left before their ID's could be checked.
I'd be willing to bet they left with a load of free stuff.

The illegal immigrants, their attorneys, and the ACLU, are attempting to tie up all of our courts with cases involviing illegal immigrants. I just posted an article over on the Illegal Immigrants thread on the PP, where illegal immigrants are sueing the detention facilities for not providing better medical care. The immigration attorneys will be on these suits like flies on . It makes me want to puke.
 
Radio station KFI-AM 640 announced offering a $100,000 reward... - 8 p.m. ...for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person or people responsible for setting the Santiago fire in Orange County. That brings the total reward to $250,000.

www.ocregister.com
 
We went to Mission Valley today and I saw some of the usual panhandlers. I was surprised because I knew the emergency shelter was just up the street.

I imagine some of them were cleared out when they started checking ID.
 
I cannot even go outside the air is so bad this morning.

Santiago lurches at 'rapid rates of speed'

Chaparral and erratic winds in Cleveland National Forest pose mounting challenge.

By JEFF OVERLEY, GWENDOLYN DRISCOLL, KIMBERLY EDDS and ERIKA CHAVEZ
THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER
Comments | Recommend

Flames this morning are feasting on torrid chaparral and brush in Cleveland National Forest,
vexing battle-worn firefighters and heightening concerns that the Santiago blaze will put up a long fight.
While an ever-growing brigade of firefighters has scored major victories by managing to spare all but 14 homes, the inferno marches on, devouring 26,000 acres of land, blackening the sky and now inching slowly but steadily toward Riverside County and untouched Orange County cities.Containment has been stuck at 30 percent for more than three days, a sharp contrast to similarly sized blazes elsewhere that have been brought under control or seen marked progress of late. Officials expect to release updated figures on damage and containment at about 7 this morning
http://www.ocregister.com/news/fire-flames-county-1903818-wednesday-concepcion
 
We thought that my son & DIL's house in Modjeska Canyon had burned, but we found out it was spared. But they were evacuated and can't return for 5 days because of the FBI investigation. Son is here with us and DIL is with the pets and her other MIL in Mission Viejo.

So this afternoon dau calls and says she, her husband and 3 kids are on their way to spend a few days. They live in Coto de Caza, and the smoke is causing problems for their 4 yr old, so we are having a full house this weekend. Hope other son in Anaheim Hills is OK doesn't have to evacuate too.

Thank the Lord they have you Pepper, so many people were in shelters.
You're a good mama! :D

xxxxxxooo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss:
 
I'll admit it-being so self absorbed in my own life-I haven't read a single news article on these fires.But today when I opened my Yahoo I saw that there were deaths. So I clicked on the link and then I saw a slide show. I am so sad right now for these people-I'm still crying. I know the devastation of natural disasters first hand-but what I went through just can't compare. My heart is aching for everyone affected by this. I will keep everyone in my prayers-and I'm gonna force my (soon to be ex) husband to donate, just not sure who to donate to yet.
 
On Monday, my boss is flying from DC to LAX and then driving down to Rancho Mirage. On Tuesday he is scheduled to drive from Rancho Mirage to Vista and then onto San Diego Airport. Do you think the fires will affect his travel? I am trying to convince him to reschedule, but he is fighting me.

Thank you.
 

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