FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021

[TootsieFootsie]

Thanks South!

For some reason, my usual method of watching these ones isn't working. Doesn't want to even go to the site.

Oh poor little thing, does look like it's asking "why are we here". And then it just needed a good rest.

You can see the video here, Tootsie. The poor pup looks really bewildered, as if there is nothing to scent in that area.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I can’t get the image of those bunk beds out of my mind. I saw somewhere that a family with two girls was on the list of missing people. I can’t remember where I saw it. Has anyone seen anything like that? My heart is so broken knowing that there are so many children in there.

it was so sad to keep seeing those bunkbeds.... the actual story of the woman who lived there is extraordinarily sad, and just broke my heart....

 

[Eloise]

Oh wow, poor doggo seems so deflated. I guess that really does explain why they'll sometimes do dummy 'successful' searches to boost the dogs' spirits again.

me too. The bunkbeds are such a sad image...

They are. It's good to know she (the owner of that unit) didn't have children and they were probably there for guests.

 

[Warwick1991]

I suck at phone drawing. But click on the pic and you can see the long vertical crack the arrows are pointing to.

That may not be a crack - it is where there's a concrete column. The exterior wall system in this building is concrete masonry infill between concrete structural elements. The wall is stuccoed over, and the junctions between the materials - concrete masonry and cast in place concrete - will often cause the stucco to crack because they move at different rates, unless movement in the stucco is addressed by provisions for movement. There is no way to tell from the photos whether this is actually a structural crack unless the area is examined on site with tools.

 

[Dontknow?]

Tunneling Florida rescuers spot voids, search for survivors

Andy Alvarez, a deputy incident commander with Miami-Dade Fire Rescue, told ABC’s “Good Morning America” on Monday that rescuers have been able to find some voids inside the wreckage, mostly in the basement and parking garage areas.

“We have over 80 rescuers at a time that are breaching the walls that collapsed, in a frantic effort to try to rescue those that are still viable and to get to those voids that we typically know exist in these buildings,” Alvarez said.

Tunneling Florida rescuers spot voids, search for survivors

 

[Hope32]

That pup just looks disappointed. They think of the searching as a game, but if he hasn't been finding anyone I'm sure he's just like this isn't fun. As it's like a never ending hide and seek with no rewards. I am sure the people looking are feeling that way as well. Just defeated as they continue to search with no rewards...

 

[JaxFlaGal]

LadyL, thank you for the link. The last 2 paragraphs were interesting.
""
In November, 2018, a town official reviewed the document and concluded that the building was in “very good condition,” she said. One telling detail, she said, is that the board members continued to live in the building.

“Would any rational people who read a report and thought … it was a hazard, continue to live there, with their children? It’s not logical,” she said. “And by the way, the vice-president and her two adult sons and their families are missing right now.”"
What is logical for one person may not be logical for another. Personally, just the standing water in the parking garage and the looming assessment of $70,000, would make put my place up for sale and cut my losses.
The assertion "it takes time to get a$12 million dollar line of credit" makes me wonder how long? Wouldn't someone or some entity question what kind of repairs cost $12 million dollars and ask for reports on why the money was needed? Do commercial insurance companies conduct safety inspections of the properties they insure?
The families of the missing are going to be asking a lot more questions than me. (us?)

My opinion only.
I'm on a Florida HOA board (101 lots in NE Florida; not a condo), and we recently spent ~ 9 months getting financing arranged to improve our private roads from crushcrete to asphalt. That work was a tiny fraction of the costs these condo owners were facing, and for us it was a herculean task that exhausted our volunteer board, despite the full and continued support of the majority of the community. It doesn't surprise me that the process could take years, particularly if replacement reserves are lacking. First they have to get estimates for the work involved. I'm sure they also got a lot of "we won't know how much xyz work will truly cost until we do 1,2,3 steps of the work" feedback too. Trying to get actionable cost estimates isn't always easy or fast. There's typically a lot of legal work and campaigning with the owners of an association to accept increased dues or special assessments, which would be commitments required before a lender would typically be willing to advance funds. Also, there are often majority or 2/3 approval votes needed before a board can incur debt or secure a loan with a building mortgage.

I only just started reviewing Dade County public records of the condo association. It looks like they re-did their covenants, by-laws, and articles of incorporation in 2019 (Dade county official records book 31634 page 4958). This could be a minimal, periodic refresh or something more major to help secure financing - which would also take time to redo documents and gain owner approvals for the changes (I can't compare original and amended covenants at this point; there have been 8 amendments and the most recent amendment is 86 pages, but calls itself "a substantial rewording"). Link: https://onlineservices.miami-dadeclerk.com/officialrecords/CFNDetailsPDF.aspx?QS=5p8/NlBjKYC3mpaYv1a+nYKDHovv52fl8UqQuyfj4+dhw8GF4nM9kA== (if that doesn't work, search for "CHAMPLAIN TOWERS SOUTH CONDO" at https://onlineservices.miami-dadeclerk.com/officialrecords/

MOO.

 

[BeckyF]

I keep thinking of the search and rescue workers and others involved in the massive cleanup of the 911 disaster and how many got cancer even years later. My prayers and gratitude go out to everyone searching through this rubble for signs of life.

 

[osu]

It was only some months ago I saw this video about a luxury high rise in Australia. Take a look if you get a chance. This was the first thing I thought about when I heard what happened:

Faulty Towers / Opal Tower, Sydney, Australia

-

Eta:
I have a lot of input for when this officially becomes a recovery mission.
I don’t want to go there yet while there is still hope for the families and this is currently a rescue mission. There is one scientific report in particular which I look forward to posting and discussing when the time is right.

—

This reminded me of a ‘60 Minutes’ segment I watched a few years back about Millennium Tower, a 58 story, high-rise luxury condominium tower in San Francisco that has been sinking, leaning and cracking since it was built.

A settlement was just reached over the 58-story skyscraper in San Francisco that's tilting, sinking, and making residents' condos 'worthless'

ETA:
Millennium Tower residents (including Joe Montana), talk with ‘60 Minutes’ about construction issues at San Francisco’s Millennium Tower.

 

[IceIce9]

I keep thinking of the search and rescue workers and others involved in the massive cleanup of the 911 disaster and how many got cancer even years later. My prayers and gratitude go out to everyone searching through this rubble for signs of life.

In my job we follow all of the 911 first responders from our area. They receive annual physicals, blood draws, and chest x-rays.


These “Ground Zero” first responders have been the subject of much research.

Much was learned about safe rescue practices from the 911 first responders, and new rescue protocols have been implemented for building collapse rescue situations.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Oh that's right. No find, no treat.

That pup just looks disappointed. They think of the searching as a game, but if he hasn't been finding anyone I'm sure he's just like this isn't fun. As it's like a never ending hide and seek with no rewards. I am sure the people looking are feeling that way as well. Just defeated as they continue to search with no rewards...

 

[moonriverfarm]

I suck at phone drawing. But click on the pic and you can see the long vertical crack the arrows are pointing to.

I think these lines are normal - the dryvit or plaster on the outside is applied after construction and you can always see seams.

 

[JaxFlaGal]

** links pre-approved by mods/admin - do NOT take this as free rein to post non-MSM from YouTube**
There's been some very good engineering info shared on this thread but it's challenging for us laypeople to parse through. In reading last night, I found a Youtube link to a source that was quite informative. I normally wouldn't ask to post any YT sources, but in this case, I requested and received the ok to post. The source is president of a Southwest Florida firm that specializes in engineering consulting for condo associations (and HOAs/individuals). His analyses of the existing specs and reports that have been made public were helpful to me in trying to understand what various engineering info means. Please note that he does not have or claim to have personal knowledge of the structure - his opinions are based on the same publicly available reports and documents that we sleuthers have shared here. Still, it's helpful to some of us to have some of the technobabble broken down into plainer language.

It seems he's posting while on vacation this week; I haven't seen him quoted in MSM yet.
video:

and

To help members judge the video's source, here's his licensing info in FL (licensed since 2008): Date From
and company web page also confirming identity: Staff – Consult Engineering
** again, links pre-approved by mods/admin - do NOT take this as free rein to post non-MSM from YouTube**

 

[JaimeInLA]

I apologize in advance for the nature of this question. But I’m wondering why finding the victims has not become easier based on the odor of decomposition. How long does it typically take a body to give off decomposition gases?

 

[IQuestion]

Former building inspector denies getting copy of damning Florida condo study
"The inspector, Ross Prieto, who left his post last year, had reviewed the engineer’s report after condo board member Mara Chouela forwarded him a copy two days earlier, according to the Miami Herald."
This news story is just the tip of the iceberg, in my opinion. RP has now been advised by his attorney not to say anymore. Fortunately or unfortunately (depending on who you are) he already said on Saturday that he sent e-mails to the City Manager Olmedillo. Olmedillo said he doesn't remember the e-mail.
Wow!! I'm not tech savvy, but I'd imagine someone could track the e-mail histories, along with who received PDF's of the reports.
I'm thinking there will be lots of explanations coming "I didn't see any reports," "I didn't know anything in the reports," "I didn't get anything in my e-mail," "I only make reports, I don't do any of the work or notify the city of impending danger," "I didn't know what the word exponentially meant ," "My printer ran out of paper and I couldn't print the report," blah, blah, blah. No mea culpa coming from anyone??
SMH...but they were Johnny-on-the-spot when it came to addressing the complaint of over grown hedges....go figure?

 

[K9Enzo]

In my job we follow all of the 911 first responders from our area. They receive annual physicals, blood draws, and chest x-rays.


These “Ground Zero” first responders have been the subject of much research.

Much was learned about safe rescue practices from the 911 first responders, and new rescue protocols have been implemented for building collapse rescue situations.

Texas A&M asked handlers of 9/11 search dogs to allow them to perform the necropsy on their search dogs. They were doing a study of the ground zero search dogs after death. They had a separate "breeding" program for study that came under fire, not related to this study at all. I'm not sure if any study results of the 9/11 dogs were ever published to the public.

The last surviving SAR dog from 9/11 died in 2017. I get chocked up every.single.time I see pics of sweet & incredibly brave Bretagne. She also worked Hurricane Katrina. IMO

 

[JaxFlaGal]

Former building inspector denies getting copy of damning Florida condo study
"The inspector, Ross Prieto, who left his post last year, had reviewed the engineer’s report after condo board member Mara Chouela forwarded him a copy two days earlier, according to the Miami Herald."
This news story is just the tip of the iceberg, in my opinion. RP has now been advised by his attorney not to say anymore. Fortunately or unfortunately (depending on who you are) he already said on Saturday that he sent e-mails to the City Manager Olmedillo. Olmedillo said he doesn't remember the e-mail.
Wow!! I'm not tech savvy, but I'd imagine someone could track the e-mail histories, along with who received PDF's of the reports.
I'm thinking there will be lots of explanations coming "I didn't see any reports," "I didn't know anything in the reports," "I didn't get anything in my e-mail," "I only make reports, I don't do any of the work or notify the city of impending danger," "I didn't know what the word exponentially meant ," "My printer ran out of paper and I couldn't print the report," blah, blah, blah. No mea culpa coming from anyone??
SMH...but they were Johnny-on-the-spot when it came to addressing the complaint of over grown hedges....go figure?

In Florida, the email of public officials is normally public record, so should be available for public records requests. Also, I didn't see a MSM link in the original post, but here's one from NY Post: Ex-inspector denies getting copy of damning Florida condo study

 

[dixiegirl1035]

** links pre-approved by mods/admin - do NOT take this as free rein to post non-MSM from YouTube**
There's been some very good engineering info shared on this thread but it's challenging for us laypeople to parse through. In reading last night, I found a Youtube link to a source that was quite informative. I normally wouldn't ask to post any YT sources, but in this case, I requested and received the ok to post. The source is president of a Southwest Florida firm that specializes in engineering consulting for condo associations (and HOAs/individuals). His analyses of the existing specs and reports that have been made public were helpful to me in trying to understand what various engineering info means. Please note that he does not have or claim to have personal knowledge of the structure - his opinions are based on the same publicly available reports and documents that we sleuthers have shared here. Still, it's helpful to some of us to have some of the technobabble broken down into plainer language.

It seems he's posting while on vacation this week; I haven't seen him quoted in MSM yet.
video:

and

To help members judge the video's source, here's his licensing info in FL (licensed since 2008): Date From
and company web page also confirming identity: Staff – Consult Engineering
** again, links pre-approved by mods/admin - do NOT take this as free rein to post non-MSM from YouTube**

Thank you for the time you took to present to the moderators for approval, and thanks to mods for allowing such. Getting proper educational materials is so key for our learning. Many many here thought on day one that the pool deck collapsed first.

Especially when the initial first responders videos in the underground with water appeared to be under the pool deck area.

What I wish we could see is the 30 seconds prior to the beginning of what is the MSM viral video.... as I think the one we have been seeing shows a "dust up" from the pool deck collapse of that MSM that starts in that video only when the buildings start to fall.

I want to rewind 30 seconds prior to the surveillance camera release. I think that the first one we saw had a few more seconds than what is the most widely shared one now... but I want even more now prior due to the phone calls we have heard, and the other ladies testimonial that she had time to grab id and keys etc AFTER she saw the deck cave in and made it safely out. She could not have done that in 10 seconds MOO.

All MOO

 

[JaxFlaGal]

live update/presser starting shortly (guessing at 11:30 ET?) WATCH LIVE: Officials give update on Surfside condo collapse

 

[K9Enzo]

I apologize in advance for the nature of this question. But I’m wondering why finding the victims has not become easier based on the odor of decomposition. How long does it typically take a body to give off decomposition gases?

My guess on your question - the HRD dogs most likely smell the decomp. Of course moving material will probably help release odors. However, scenes like this are so dangerous for everyone, including the dogs, that they just can't safely get to victims. At some point, when they believe probability of survival is gone, they might start to "clean up" this scene and victims will be recovered. IMO

I had a friend who worked her HRD dog at a plane crash site. She described a chaotic scene where her dog was alerting on remains, while sitting on others. Incredibly tragic. IMO