FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #1 *Arrest*

[Betty P]

Scripted speech. Acting as Consoler in Chief for nation that is grieving. Says there were plenty of warning signs with the individual responsible. Focus needs to be on mental health. Addressed students and said that they and their parents need to feel that all children are safe in our schools. Will visit Parkland on Saturday (he'll be at Mar-A-Lago for the weekend). Will meet with Governors and state Attorneys General to discuss what can be done to make schools safe.

Well, speaking of mental health services, I wonder if the killer had access to it? His mother was recently deceased, he was 19 yrs old. There's probably a very good chance he had no health insurance or access to Medicaid. It will be interesting to know if being uninsured caused him to fall through the cracks.

 

[Bravo]

A quick question. Had killer been paid a visit by LE due to his online presence what could he be charged with? TIA. I was listening to CNN last night. Don Lemon was really angry and I appreciated his commentary (Yes CARIIS Don Lemon lol). Anyhoo he stated he was in Aurora after the theatre massacre. He conducted his own test run before flying home. He went to a store and in 20 minutes walked out with an AR-15. Got on a plane and flew several States over. Easy peasy. (Of course weapon was not on the plane). I respect the right to carry but this type I will never understand some of the laws and types of weaponry. All my American Family-Sis, Bil, Nieces, Nephews and Cousins all carry for protection. Seems this guy was flagged but what would this be punishable by under the law? TIA

 

[ElementalLaura]

IMO we can talk gun control, mental health issues, bullying, school security guards and metal detectors but is anyone talking about movies, you tube, social media, music, video games and children's ability to access the increased glorification of violence?

IMO, we know how to talk about the things you mention when it comes to young people who become radicalized Muslims.

IMO, there's tremendous resistance to talking about how young people become radicalized in other ways (racial supremacy / hate, misogyny, anti-or-pro religion, violence in general).

 

[Bravo]

IMO we can talk gun control, mental health issues, bullying, school security guards and metal detectors but is anyone talking about movies, you tube, social media, music, video games and children's ability to access the increased glorification of violence?

We really are a desensitized society.

 

[Strangeworld]

Theatening to kill, harm and shoot others is a crime. Sane people don't make flippant, random threats.

Totally agree with you. But people with mental illness sometimes do. Does every mentally ill person who threatens to harm someone deserve to be locked up for life? Does every person high on drugs and threatens another person deserve to be locked up for life? I really do get what you are saying, I'm as frustrated with these shootings as everyone else, but it's a very slippery slope.

 

[Strangeworld]

A PP flagged up that this man had a history of felony level offences that were never pursued by LE, or maybe never even brought to LE's attention. If any one of them had been taken further, it could have resulted in a felony conviction and made it impossible for him to have legally acquired a firearm. It would also have ensured he was more on LE radar than he was.

Maybe this is what's required - to stamp hard on these troubled young men as soon as they step out of line and ensure they can't legally acquire guns.

Agree - tougher harder approach is so very much overdue.

 

[JanIreland]

I'm sorry ....I have visited Websleuths almost daily for years and have a huge amount of respect for everyone here . I usually just read and do not comment much at all but I have to say something here .

I say this as an outsider . I live in Ireland and have never visited America . To us ...Americas gun laws are insane . We have mentally ill/ unstable people here too , we don't have school shootings (for that I feel very lucky) .

To instruct people to not discuss the only thing that can really stop these atrocities and their never ending occurrences (Americas Gun Laws) Is just plain wrong and really makes any conversation about this meaningless and changes nothing ...

This guy is gonna be just one more sick person , we've all seen many like him , there will be nothing really special and nothing will be truly learned from him , just like the many before him ....I can tell from a distance these horrible killing sprees will continue and increase. In this instance I am in complete disagreement and I believe ALL you guys should be talking about is serious changes to the availability of guns . (I'll take the suspension willingly as I feel I have to say this )

I can't begin to explain how obvious this is to the outside world ... my sincere condolences goes to America today. .

 

[LaborDayRN]

"Nothing has been done. It doesn't seem to matter to our government that children are being shot to death day after day in schools. It doesn't matter that people are being shot at a concert, at a movie theater. It's not enough, apparently, to move our leadership, our government, the people who are running this country to actually do anything. That's demoralizing."
https://www.si.com/nba/2018/02/14/steve-kerr-talks-florida-high-school-shooting-gun-violence-video

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Thank you for the additional info and link, Betty!

It certainly appears they believe they are a religious organization, that it's the foundation of their "mission".

They advocate for overthrowing our government and seceding from the US. Very scary group. They advocate violence and vow to "fight to the death" for their beliefs.


They've been in the news last year. SPLC is keeping an eye on them, but is DHS? Video for source of this info:

http://www.wtxl.com/news/white-nati...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[Lyall0814]

Our society slays me with all the ways we ensure that a shooter like this becomes an "other". Oh he had mental issues, he's not like me. He was a loner, he's not like me. He is an immigrant, he's not like me. Every situation becomes an isolated incident that happened in a vacuum, rather than a symptom of a broken, toxic society. And then we say we need God in our lives like praying has ever helped.

Truth is, these shooters are generally born just like the rest of us, with a clean, sane slate. Over time, they are abused, neglected, isolated, bullied, told to be something they aren't, told they are this that or the other. Society raises these boys to be the violent, aggressive, hate-filled men they are. That's the bottom line. Look around us, we shame children for expressing themselves. We tell boys to "man up" and stop crying. We don't let boys wear pink. We call effeminate men "sissies."

We refuse to acknowledge that times today are not the same as they were 50-100 years ago. We refuse to acknowledge our own role in things like this. How we perpetuate it in hundreds of ways every day and that "crazy" people like this guy will take all those little microaggressions and internalize them and take them out on innocent schoolkids.

We have to start by recognizing that we as a society are part of the problem. If we can't even do that, we will NEVER solve this problem. All, JMO. Obviously.

Well said, Tawny.

Brooks Brown - Columbine survivor - said the same in his book 'No Easy Answers' (well worth a read if anyone hasn't). He wrote:

Why do people wonder where Eric and Dylan came from?
I guess they ask because they never look at themselves.
We as a society allowed Eric and Dylan's creation. If we sit back and wait for society to fix itself, it will never happen. We will only see more of the same.
But if we as individuals choose to do something, then it's the first step toward change.

 

[mrsu]

Mass shootings (more than 3 fatalities) since 1982:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XV4mZi3gYDgwx5PrLwqqHTUlHkwkV-6uy_yeJh3X46o/htmlview#gid=0

Updated thru 2018.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/

 

[gitana1]

When one cannot determine proper values and morals without the presence of a god that's the true problem.

Yesterday someone attempted to argue that school shootings have been happening since the 1700s. When exactly did "they" take prayer and god out of schools? Many people pray in silence so how exactly are people unable to do that in school now?

That argument is one that's sort of easily refuted. We are a super religious nation, whether or not we have God in school. 83% Christian. 25% of them Evangelical Protestants.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90356&page=1

http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/

We have the highest rate of school shootings, even accounting for population.

Let's look at a nation like Sweden, for example. Suuuuper secular:

https://www.thelocal.se/20150413/swedes-least-religious-in-western-world

https://hum.gu.se/english/current/n...-as-something-outdated-and-strange.cid1340014

Two school shootings in their entire history. Only two people have died in Sweden form school shootings and one was a targeted attack against one victim:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kungälv_school_shooting

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/school-shooting-shocks-sweden-1.275488

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

The Florida governor did speak a little on the topic.

From the AP story link: Gov. Matt Bevin told talk radio hosts his heart is truly broken for the people of Florida and the community has been shattered in a similar way that Kentucky was in January. He said guns are not the reason for increase in school shootings, but blamed a culture that delegitimizes life through violent video games, TV shows and music lyrics.

IMO we can talk gun control, mental health issues, bullying, school security guards and metal detectors but is anyone talking about movies, you tube, social media, music, video games and children's ability to access the increased glorification of violence?

 

[gitana1]

Well, speaking of mental health services, I wonder if the killer had access to it? His mother was recently deceased, he was 19 yrs old. There's probably a very good chance he had no health insurance or access to Medicaid. It will be interesting to know if being uninsured caused him to fall through the cracks.

Reports were that he was receiving mental health treatment.

 

[LaborDayRN]

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/...rump-do-something-florida-shooting-sot-nr.cnn

The mother of one of the victims of the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Florida makes a passionate plea to President Trump.

Powerful. Brought me to tears.

 

[yurena]

I'm sorry ....I have visited Websleuths almost daily for years and have a huge amount of respect for everyone here . I usually just read and do not comment much at all but I have to say something here .

I say this as an outsider . I live in Ireland and have never visited America . To us ...Americas gun laws are insane . We have mentally ill/ unstable people here too , we don't have school shootings (for that I feel very lucky) .

To instruct people to not discuss the only thing that can really stop these atrocities and their never ending occurrences (Americas Gun Laws) Is just plain wrong and really makes any conversation about this meaningless and changes nothing ...

This guy is gonna be just one more sick person , we've all seen many like him , there will be nothing really special and nothing will be truly learned from him , just like the many before him ....I can tell from a distance these horrible killing sprees will continue and increase. In this instance I am in complete disagreement and I believe ALL you guys should be talking about is serious changes to the availability of guns . (I'll take the suspension willingly as I feel I have to say this )

I can't begin to explain how obvious this is to the outside world ... my sincere condolences goes to America today. .

Wonderful post Jan. Word by word.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

This quote from your link about the Republic of Florida white supremacist Christian group, to which the school shooter belonged.

"I really feel like they're not any different from a terrorist group in the Middle East or anywhere else -- or even just like a gang," said Tallahassee resident Jay Godin in a phone interview with WTXL Tuesday.​

It certainly appears they believe they are a religious organization, that it's the foundation of their "mission".

They advocate for overthrowing our government and seceding from the US. Very scary group. They advocate violence and vow to "fight to the death" for their beliefs.

They've been in the news last year. SPLC is keeping an eye on them, but is DHS? Video for source of this info:

http://www.wtxl.com/news/white-nati...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[gitana1]

Flashbacks of my law school brief which was on this issue.
The legal issue for school discipline/possible prosecution is whether the conduct amounts to a "true threat."
The lead case on it as it relates to students in a public school is Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independent_Community_School_District
Many cases have since taken up the issue as it relates to more modern issues such as cyber threats and bullying (can a school discipline a student for online bullying is another issue under this umbrella).

Here is a law review article on a similar threat that was posted on facebook https://uclawreview.org/2015/01/08/...nt-to-be-revisited-in-elonis-v-united-states/
Here is an MSM article from 2015 about the issue https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/02/us/supreme-court-rules-in-anthony-elonis-online-threats-case.html

This is a pretty succinct summary of the law as I recall it:
http://www.firstamendmentschools.org/freedoms/faq.aspx?id=12996 (the article goes on to discuss the various tests and definitions different courts have given to "true threat")

There is a plethora of sources and case law if you even just google "true threat school cyber threats"

Thanks for that SB! So what are your thoughts about how the things this creep posted fit into true cyber threats?

 

[Hraefn]

The Florida governor did speak a little on the topic.

Matt Bevin (quoted in the post) is Kentucky's governor.

Gov. Rick Scott was also mentioned at the link:

Florida Gov. Rick Scott says he'll sit down with state leaders and work on how they can make sure people with mental illness aren't able to get guns.

Scott spoke Thursday a day after a shooting left 17 people dead at a high school. He said leaders will look at how they can make sure something like that never happens again.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I'm sorry ....I have visited Websleuths almost daily for years and have a huge amount of respect for everyone here . I usually just read and do not comment much at all but I have to say something here .

I say this as an outsider . I live in Ireland and have never visited America . To us ...Americas gun laws are insane . We have mentally ill/ unstable people here too , we don't have school shootings (for that I feel very lucky) .

To instruct people to not discuss the only thing that can really stop these atrocities and their never ending occurrences (Americas Gun Laws) Is just plain wrong and really makes any conversation about this meaningless and changes nothing ...

This guy is gonna be just one more sick person , we've all seen many like him , there will be nothing really special and nothing will be truly learned from him , just like the many before him ....I can tell from a distance these horrible killing sprees will continue and increase. In this instance I am in complete disagreement and I believe ALL you guys should be talking about is serious changes to the availability of guns . (I'll take the suspension willingly as I feel I have to say this )

I can't begin to explain how obvious this is to the outside world ... my sincere condolences goes to America today. .

Thank you for this very thoughtful post JanIreland.