FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #2 *Arrest*

[Gooddeeds]

Do we know if there was a family Will??
How was he supporting himself after he quit the Dollar Tree?
Who was paying for the younger brothers living expenses? It would seem odd to take someone in if the person offering isn’t financially stable.

 

[Doghairrules]

Not sure how parents can deal with it. I know I would not.

But what’s the alternative? Kicking them out on the streets? I don’t think that would solve anything for anyone.

All the politicians who are saying this is a mental health problem and not a gun access problem should meet in emergency session to fund new mental health initiatives across the country so that people have access to resources to at least try to prevent this. Moo

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I was wondering if N.C. and his brother were adopted from a Russian adoption agency? I’ve heard that some of them have babies that have been sensory deprived with little to no touching, holding, interacting. And of course this creates a lot of problems as the baby goes into toddlerhood, youth, adulthood.

Hmmmm.......

 

[Doghairrules]

Confessed Florida school shooter Nikolas Cruz would throw chairs, a dog bowl, a drinking glass — seemingly anything he could get his hands on — during violent assaults on his adopted mother, according to details of the more than 30 police incident reports revealed Saturday.

More at link:
https://nypost.com/2018/02/17/school-gunman-has-history-of-abusing-his-mother/

And yet he was never arrested. I don’t know what the people on the ground were thinking.

 

[Latestforever]

Just want to highlight this section of this article:

"Mr. Cruz’s school disciplinary records show he attended at least six schools, including Cross Creek School, a school for students with emotional problems; Dave Thomas Education Center, an alternative high school for at-risk youth; and an adult education center. He was first identified as developmentally delayed in 2002, when he was 4 years old.

In incidents that began in 2012, when Mr. Cruz was 13, he was disciplined for being disobedient and unruly. In 2013, the records suggest, he was counseled for making a false 911 call.

He was suspended several times in the 2016-17 school year, his last year at Stoneman Douglas, and was frequently reported for prolonged and unexplained absences. In September 2016, he was suspended for two days for fighting, only to return and get suspended again nine days after the fight, this time for hurling profane insults.

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That same month, the Department of Children and Families began its investigation into Mr. Cruz. The investigation, first reported by The Sun-Sentinel of South Florida on Friday, was obtained by The Times on Saturday. The state agency had petitioned a court on Friday to make the confidential records public, but the court has yet to do so.

“Mental health services and supports were in place when this investigation closed,” Mike Carroll, the secretary of the Department of Children and Families, said in a statement. Mr. Cruz was investigated as an adult, and the investigation appeared aimed at determining whether he was being neglected.

Agency investigators identified Mr. Cruz, who had turned 18 a few days earlier, as a “vulnerable adult due to mental illness.” In addition to depression, Mr. Cruz had autism and attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, the report said. He was regularly taking medication for the A.D.H.D. It was unclear whether he was taking anything for the depression, according to the report.

After the argument with his mother, an investigator visited the family’s home in Parkland, which was clean, clutter-free and did not present any foul odors. The investigator did not see the cuts on Mr. Cruz’s arms: He was wearing long sleeves.

“Mr. Cruz stated that he plans to go out and buy a gun,” the report states. “It is unknown what he is buying the gun for.”

His mother denied that she and her son had argued. She told the investigator that Mr. Cruz did not have a gun, though he did have an air gun she would take away from him when he did not follow rules about shooting only at backyard targets.

His mother, who died in November, told investigators she attributed Mr. Cruz’s behavior to “a breakup with a girl.” Ms. Cruz “stated that she and the girl’s mother told the kids they had to end the relationship because it was unhealthy for everyone,” the report said. Neither the girl nor her mother are named in the report."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/us/nikolas-cruz-florida-shooting.html

There is more in the article of interest, due to terms I can't quote more.

 

[CARIIS]

It’s the proliferation and easy access to media! Yes, it’s all media’s fault! It’s the common factor in all horrible mass shootings!

Everything now makes sense! Now we can solve all our our problems!

/s

[emoji849]

I agree. I think a component of this is the shootings have gotten more mass for lack of a better word!

By that I mean 20 years ago it was more like serial killer -- and generally speaking there antisocial stuff there-- where the news attn IMO was a component (Ie playing games with the LE) etc etc


Whereas these days it seems more organic mental illness than personality disordered type of attacks.

I really dont think (not Elliot) lanza , HOmes, planned parenthood cho this guy etc are really oriented enough to be thrilled with news coverage -

if that makes sense

There are usually a lot of this took all this time to plan --Bundy planned. Gacy planned. Dhamer planned. Luka planned. Bundy plan.

The mass machine gun ones really boil down to packing a backpack and aiming.

There is nothing cunning in it --not a lot of thought is required. Load. Pull Trigger. Walk.

IMO there are huge differences -- I dont think stardom is the real goal in a lot of the attacks the recent past .

Rage voices delusions that kind of thing as opposed to hunting for a victim disposing of body getting away with it ....

moo

 

[Safeguard]

Nikolas Cruz playing video games a lot is something I just saw today.

He also breathed a lot and ate a lot. I bet with the same correlation to his murderous psychopathy.

 

[Betty P]

Exactly. That's another thing I intend doing, tomorrow, looking into the way other countries handle health care. Although, I better do it quick 'cause I see other countries changing right before my eyes.

After a quick look, it appears there isn't a lot of comparative data. Sadly, many of the "experts" reviewing the topic still think in terms of pushing everyone into outpatient care instead of inpatient. That may be good for some folks with lower levels of mental illness and where community support systems are good, but totally inadequate for people with more severe forms of mental illness. These experts also view the issue in a binary way: either patients are in a hospital in a bed or they're out in the community on their own. That's silly. They can develop better systems for quality inpatient care.

There is general consensus that mental health care, for those who have access, is far more expensive in the US than other developed countries.


Here are some links I found:

Comparing systems within Europe

http://www.eiumedia.com/index.php/l...y-leads-europe-in-dealing-with-mental-illness

Looking for studies on US mental illness is somewhat difficult. Most of the good peer-reviewed study results are behind very expensive paywalls. Many of those that are free to view are not very high quality studies (self-administered questionnaires, etc.) Studies show US prison population growth as off the charts, its horrible. We're ahead of every nation, with Russia just behind us. SMH. That's how we deal with more severe mental illness in the US.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9f04e6946f008cbebdfe5f3a3dfb1ae0

Happy hunting!

 

[CARIIS]

If a person is assessed by a mental health professional, agency or whatever and they are found not be a danger, then the reality is that the _______ can't be held accountable unless they failed to act based on what they had been presented with. I run into this regularly with protective services. They do an assessment and think a child is safe to be left in the home. I don't agree but they have their measurements that dictate what their duty is. Nothing changed after Sandy Hook. No laws that would protect "all of us" against the AL's of the world-- even a measure that linked social security numbers to guns in order to link mental health SSI receivers regarding fitness to own has been overturned. Congress with the president's signature and state governments need to act. What is the balance? I don't think that is a topic we can explore here. But, I don't think lawsuits will occur or help. Here at WS, how many times do we see children abused and killed under the same circumstances? You think it would be easy to get children out of the hands of abusive parents. Rarely do we see legislation or sweeping changes in social services. People need to rise up and cease being quiet because eventually it will happen in each of our backyards--- just look at the mass shooting maps. It will soon be like the six degrees of Kevin Bacon game with those affected by mass shootings. I know I am a first degree to a school shooting already- I know a survivor of Sandy Hook.

that is a neat idea!

Link please.

I find that hard to believe. And I’m not sure what you mean notating your comment in the first person tense (directing it to me?). LE and FBI are mandated to protect all of us in society which is why they utilize guns, technology, equipment, etc

Are you saying LE & FBI is just a report-generating agencies with no authority? I think the school districts could be sued as well if they negated arrestible offenses with a simple expulsion.

I think Henderson and DCF are in for a ride

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

fromlink

....investigation came four days after Cruz’s 18[SUP]th[/SUP] birthday, meaning he could legally purchase a rifle.


“Mr. Cruz has fresh cuts on both his arms. Mr. Cruz stated he plans to go out and buy a gun. It is unknown what he is buying the gun for,” the DCF report reads.

.......concluded there were “some implications” for Cruz’s safety but determined he was receiving adequate support from his school and outpatient care from Henderson Mental Health in Broward County.


......Cruz came under DCF’s supervision and care because he was classified as a vulnerable adult due to mental illness..

“[Cruz’s] final level of risk is low as [he] resides with his mother, attends school and receives counseling through Henderson,”

the Snapchat incident alerted at least four local agencies — DCF, the Broward Sheriff’s Office, the Broward school district and Henderson Behavioral Health

, one of the largest mental health providers in the county — that Cruz was in crisis and posed a potential danger to himself and others.

.......A mobile crisis unit from Henderson had been called out at some time in the past to figure out whether Cruz needed to be committed for psychiatric treatment under the Baker Act,


.....mother, Lynda Cruz, told investigators that her son had been diagnosed with autism and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. He was being treated for depression, had a behavioral disorder and had been taking medication for the ADHD, the report said. Investigators

......did not know whether he was still taking the medication.



.....mother told investigators his behavior was linked to “a breakup with a girl who was cheating on [him].” She and the girl’s mom had told the teens they “had to end the relationship because it was unhealthy for everyone.”

....began cutting himself after his relationship broke up,


She said her son did not have a firearm. She said she had confiscated his air gun because he didn’t follow house rules about only shooting it “within the backyard and at targets.” It was unclear precisely what he was doing.


Cruz had “hate signs” — including a Nazi symbol and the words “I hate N------” — drawn on his book bag

........ department has petitioned the court to be allowed to release any and all records we have on this individual,”

.....A mobile crisis unit from Henderson had been called out at some time in the past to figure out whether Cruz needed to be committed for psychiatric treatment under the Baker Act,

+


GUN


=


MOO

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Latestforever]

I was wondering if N.C. and his brother were adopted from a Russian adoption agency? I’ve heard that some of them have babies that have been sensory deprived with little to no touching, holding, interacting. And of course this creates a lot of problems as the baby goes into toddlerhood, youth, adulthood.

Hmmmm.......

I have no idea, but in nursing school we were told about that study. Some babies were given, affection, love, proper nutrition(bottles). The other set of babies were given proper nutrition only, no love was given only diapers changes and baths as interaction. The babies with love and affection developed normally. The babies without the human interaction, well some of them shut down and actually died. I dont know anymore from this or have a link, it is just what I remember from nursing school in the 90's.

 

[Inthedetails]

Nevermind. Found what I was looking for. Deleted post.

 

[Latestforever]

Can someone post the link to the gun discussion thread without comment? No discussion on that topic is allowed here, but I'd like to pop over there - but need the link. Thanks.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?365927-gun-control-debate

 

[Safeguard]

I have no idea, but in nursing school we were told about that study. Some babies were given, affection, love, proper nutrition(bottles). The other set of babies were given proper nutrition only, no love was given only diapers changes and baths as interaction. The babies with love and affection developed normally. The babies without the human interaction, well some of them shut down and actually died. I dont know anymore from this or have a link, it is just what I remember from nursing school in the 90's.

What a profoundly sick and disturbing study! I had heard about a similar one conducted with monkeys, and I found that appalling, but if they actually did the same on human infants that is beyond the pale! And why was that not criminal abuse and neglect?

 

[Latestforever]

What a profoundly sick and disturbing study! I had heard about a similar one conducted with monkeys, and I found that appalling, but if they actually did the same on human infants that is beyond the pale! And why was that not criminal abuse and neglect?

I thought the same in school and now. I tear up thinking about it and do not want
To look for the actual study.

 

[CARIIS]

There has been not any of NC Doctor who where directly responsible for his mental or medical conditions have shared what he was diagnosed with or without. So to speculate he had autism from what a neighbor has said is not proof. But was has been said is what raises more flags is his Cruelty to animals. The killing began with the squirrels. As a fourth-grader, Nikolas Cruz would try to bloody them with his pellet gun. Then he started going after chickens.
By the time Cruz was a teenager, he was sneaking into his neighbors’ yard across the street and trying to get his dogs to attack their baby potbelly pigs.
One resident watched him take long sticks to rabbit holes, ramming them down as hard as possible to kill any creatures trapped inside.
Since the 1970"s, research has consistently reported childhood cruelty to animals as the first warning sign of later delinquency, violence, and criminal behavior.* In fact, nearly all violent crime perpetrators have a history of animal cruelty in their profiles.* Albert deSalvo, the Boston Strangler found guilty of killing 13 women, shot arrows through dogs and cats he trapped as a child.* Columbine shooters Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold boasted about mutilating animals for fun.

A history is slowly emerging. He has been formally diagnosed multiple times. There is no way to have contact with any professional without a diagnosis.

He has one invol commitment that we are aware of so far, DCF was involved, a crisis team at the school and both a DCF and therapist at his house as far as we know at this point.

Right there we are at 5 dx!! At least

Mental is tough -- there are no lab tests or
xrays!

Ans since we are talking about behavior and
presentation they are subjective to some degree.

When I started I had a hard time differentiating between major depression and what was really bipolar in the depressed phase.

oT

Figure skating ugh this one guy is having a horrible program worst I have seen this year

feel bad for him I don't understand how they get
up so quick its concrete!

Where does the ouch go??

NBC has been a PIG they take commercials like every 4 minutes its obnoxious !

 

[CARIIS]

Mothers aren’t the most objective resource of gaging their child’s proclivity of harming others. The “not my boy” saga is getting old.

She was bewildering she was very aware
her emails to her ex were sad

 

[CARIIS]

Exactly......the school expelled him for those violent and arrestible actions. Did the school contact local LE? If so.....what action was taken? It has been reported that local police had been called over 30+ times but no arrests and no action taken? It appears then that LE in this case is just a reporting agency and not a law enforcement agency, right? Ugh!

And we also have the FBI who have admittedly dropped the ball in this case twice......

Accountability must be demanded now by our societal members. We can’t suffer much more of this sort of thing.

Hi taste!

Just learned tonight that the crisis team was at the school at least once.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I have no idea, but in nursing school we were told about that study. Some babies were given, affection, love, proper nutrition(bottles). The other set of babies were given proper nutrition only, no love was given only diapers changes and baths as interaction. The babies with love and affection developed normally. The babies without the human interaction, well some of them shut down and actually died. I dont know anymore from this or have a link, it is just what I remember from nursing school in the 90's.

Yes, I heard about it when I was in nursing school

 

[CARIIS]

I agree and understand. However, we have been engaging the “see something, say something” policy lately & it seems to be helping. People are speaking out in a variety of areas of wrongdoing & harms.

In the case of N.C., there were multiple reporting from a variety of sources. Our FBI dropped the ball because it’s easier to do that rather than have a protocol put into place (that works) to protect us.

What is interesting, they did Baker Act NC’s brother for some reason so there is obviously some sort of protocol or action that is allowed.

If I were a family member of one of the 17 victims in this case, I’d be suing the FBI and every other organization/institution that documented NC’s harmful behavior. And I’d be doing this solely to create a freer society that’s safe for all of us

It was a chaotic childhood for both of them
and now he is totally alone on the planet --in a quarter of year nothing but losses

I do think the younger brother probably had some problems earlier as well.

We cant forget the potent genetic notions